Qlab osc won't work with multiple networks active

[Mike Storeton-West]

Hi. Has anyone had any experience with this?
We run two mac pros at a venue running qlab. One to run audio playback for band click tracks, the other to run visual cues. We use OSC to trigger video from the audio machine.
We have a Simple wired cat5 connection involving cat5 cable. No routers, switches etc.

We also have a wifi connection that provides internet access.

When the wifi is enabled on either mac, the qlab osc link doesn't work. Can anyone offer any explanation/fix?

[Dave "luckydave" Memory]

On Monday, February 10, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Mike Storeton-West wrote:

When the wifi is enabled on either mac, the qlab osc link doesn't work. Can anyone offer any explanation/fix?

Do the ethernet interfaces on each Mac have a unique IP address range, distinct from the wifi network's IP addresses? For instance, if the wifi router gives you an address like 192.168.0.102, try using 192.168.1.102 for the ethernet connection. That way, the OSC messages will have a distinct route to take, and they won't attempt to send it over wifi.

-- 

luck...@figure53.com 

[Paul Gotch]

Are you setting IP addresses for the wired connection or are you relying
on the Macs automatically assigning themselves IP addresses?

Set it to the not working state with both Wifi Enabled and the Ethernet
connect.

On both macs in the 'Network' system preference for both the 'WiFi and
'Ethernet' network connections can you:

- Press the "Advanced..." button
- Go to the 'TCP/IP' tab
- Tell us what the following fields are:

Configure IPv4:
IPv4 Address:
Subnet Mask:
Router:

Please also tell us what you have configured in the OSC section of the
QLab workspace settings.

-p

[Mike Storeton-West]

Thanks for such a swift reply Dave! So just to clarify, are you saying that the two connections on one machine should use the same IP address? Rather than say 192.168.1.2 for wifi and 192.168.1.3 for the Ethernet? If so, presumably making each connection use a static IP address and making them the same would make this fail proof?

What about subnet masks, do these matter? Should two network connections on the same machine have the same subnet mask? Or different? Or is this irrelevant?

And finally... Is having two connections open on a machine going to affect latency of the messages? At current even without running a second network, we're getting about a 0.25sec delay, which isn't massive but enough to make a difference with timing critical synchronisation between audio and video....

[Dave "luckydave" Memory]

On Monday, February 10, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Mike Storeton-West wrote:

Thanks for such a swift reply Dave! So just to clarify, are you saying that the two connections on one machine should use the same IP address? Rather than say 192.168.1.2 for wifi and 192.168.1.3 for the Ethernet? If so, presumably making each connection use a static IP address and making them the same would make this fail proof?

They shouldn't use the same IP address, or even the same range. If they're each using 192.168.1.xxx, then there's no distinction within the computer about which network device it should be using, so messages go to wifi, and get lost. Set the ethernet connection on both machines to use a distinct network, so 192.168.2.xxx or something like that, so the computer doesn't get confused.

 

What about subnet masks, do these matter?

Not in terms of this discussion.

 

And finally... Is having two connections open on a machine going to affect latency of the messages? At current even without running a second network, we're getting about a 0.25sec delay, which isn't massive but enough to make a difference with timing critical synchronisation between audio and video....

It won't be clear if the network connections are effecting lag until the connections are truly distinct, which from what you've described isn't the case.

-- 

luck...@figure53.com

[Mike Storeton-West]

Hi Paul, we have assigned static ip addresses to the Ethernet connection on the two machines. One is set to 192.168.1.20 and the other ....21. The subnet mask wing used is 255.255.254.0 on both machines. There is no number in 'router' as we don't have a router.

The osc settings are set to fairly normal settings. Patch 1 is left at's eh default localhost, and patch 2 the target machine' IP address. the port is set to the default 53000. The osc setting tab is set at default settings, enabled with no pass code.

[Mike Storeton-West]

Oh I'm sorry I understand now.,, obviously my knowledge of IP address structures is somewhat limited.

I'll check tomorrow but I'm fairly sure the wireless router assigns IP addresses in the range of 192.168.99.xxx, which presumably means that just by chance I'm not using the same range for the two connections. That said, one machine may have Ethernet set at 192.168.1.xxx and the other 192.168.0.xxx, so I'm guessing now that this matters more than I thought,

Is the kind of lag I'm experiencing typical of this kind of setup, where the cat5 cable is around 30M long?

[Paul Gotch]

On 10/02/2014 22:22, Mike Storeton-West wrote:
> Hi Paul, we have assigned static ip addresses to the Ethernet
> connection on the two machines. One is set to 192.168.1.20 and the
> other ....21. The subnet mask wing used is 255.255.254.0 on both
> machines. There is no number in 'router' as we don't have a router.

Subnet masks do matter, usng 255.255.254.0 means you have 9 bits of host
address and 23 bits of network address. So the network address is
192.168.0.0/23 and the host addresses are 192.168.1.20 and 192.168.1.21
respectively.

Now it's possible that your Wifi Router is using a subnet mask of
255.255.255.0 and using a network address of 192.168.0.0/24 and handing
out addresses in the range 192.168.0.1 - 192.168.0.254

If this is the case then the networks will interfere with each other
because the /23 you are using for the wired connection contains the /24
the Wifi router is using.

I don't know about the lag that you are seeing but lets solve the IP
addressing issue first.

-p

[Mike Storeton-West]

Ah oops sorry, subnet mask I'm using is 255.255.255.0

Damn ipad keyboard and big thumbs :/

I'm really sorry but what you've just written has gone well beyond my understanding of this subject. Am I right to be using 255.255.255.0 on both networks? And I'm pretty sure the wifi network assigns to 192.168.99.xxx. What do my Ethernet addresses need to be?

[Paul Gotch]

On 10/02/2014 22:59, Mike Storeton-West wrote:
> I'm really sorry but what you've just written has gone well beyond my understanding of this subject. Am I right to be using 255.255.255.0 on both networks?

Yes. If you want to know the gory details of how this stuff works
underneath the places to start are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4

for how things used to work and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain_Routing

for how things actually work these days.

And I'm pretty sure the wifi network assigns to 192.168.99.xxx. What do
my Ethernet addresses need to be?

If that is the case then what you are using should work as you have to
separate networks one of 192.168.1.0/24 and 192.168.99/24. However as
you have having problems that suggests that the Wifi network may not be
doing what you recall it to be doing.

-p

[Dave Tosti-Lane]

One simple thing to try that cleared up a conflict on one of my rigs.

Go into Network settings in the System Preferences.

Click on the little gear and select "Set Service Order"

Whichever way it's set, try it the other - that is, if Ethernet is at the top, try sliding Wifi up to the top.

Switching the order on one of our machines cleared up a conflict where installing a Dante network connection shut down our Wifi for screen sharing. Switching the order made both work fine.

Dave Tosti-Lane

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[Mike Storeton-West]

Thanks both for your replies. This problem has been solved by a mixture of both solutions.

I'm still getting roughly a .25 second latency... Is this normal?

[Paul Gotch]

On 11 Feb 2014, at 17:21, Mike Storeton-West <mikewest...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks both for your replies. This problem has been solved by a mixture of both solutions.
>
> I'm still getting roughly a .25 second latency... Is this normal?

First make sure that the network latency is fine. This can be done using the 'ping' command from a terminal or there is a graphical version in Network Utility.

Secondly What is the latency if you use ip MIDI instead of OSC? This would help pin it down to if it something to do with OSC transmission and reception or if it is a more general issue.

One other question, do you have the OS X firewall turned on on either machine and if so does disabling it make a difference?

-p