Re: [QLab] Help Firewire device problems!

[Rabyn]

When you say "2nd one in 3.5 years" what happened to the last one? Are you sure this isn't an OS related issue? Did you upgrade drivers or the OS around the same time? Install new software? Etc...?

I've been using various FireWire audio devices for 10+ years and never had a problem with Amy of them that wasn't software based or a bad cable.

If you want something tried and true, see if you score a motu 828 original used for $100. I've got two of them covering qlab duties with brand new IMacs. I don't know how you can get 8 in/out for less. If you want something new, check out the presonus audiobox 1818. USB based. Affordable. 

Ra Byn 

On Oct 20, 2012, at 6:16 PM, Bruce Vieira <bruce...@gmail.com> wrote:

I do sound for a community theater using Qlab with a Mac. I'm using a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Firewire device connected to three amps All has been well for a couple of years until it seems to have suddenly stopped working (I trouble shot using my laptop and it's just not responding)This is the second one to break down in 3& 1/2 years!.

[BC Keller]

You say you have had 2 firewire failures in a couple years. By chance, are you hot swapping devices (i.e., unplugging/plugging in things without powering down)? If so, be advised, despite all the "hot swappable" advertising, this has been a quietly known issue for quite some time. Here is an old article about it:
http://www.lowendmac.com/misc/03/0421.html

Cheers,
BC Keller
Production Sound Supervisor
UC Irvine
Claire Trevor School of the Arts

[Bruce Vieira]

I have not updated anything including drivers. No new software or OS updates. It just worked one day and the next day qlab would not recognized the device. It didn't show up in the Mac preferences sound panel either. Others are saying hot swapping may be the problem. Do you think I suddenly need to download new Focusrite drivers??

Thanks btw

[Bruce Vieira]

Wow. Interesting AND scary. Thanks.

[Jeremy Lee]

Firewire is not the problem.  Cheap manufacturing is.  You get what you pay for.

I've had maybe 5 years of use out of my RME FireFace 400, and it's going strong, and still gets regular driver and firmware updates.  Many people have Metric Halo boxes that are a decade old, abused like hell and still working fine.  When I had cheaper interfaces, they would die after a couple of years.

If you want to stay in the mid/ low end of the budget spectrum, I'd suggest getting a MOTU box.  The Ultralite would suit your needs fine.  It should last a few years depending on abuse, but when it dies, MOTU has a very good repair policy.  You ship it back to them, and they send you a new or refurbished unit for a flat fee (I think it's $100 now).

Jeremy

On Oct 20, 2012, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Vieira wrote:

I do sound for a community theater using Qlab with a Mac. I'm using a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 Firewire device connected to three amps All has been well for a couple of years until it seems to have suddenly stopped working (I trouble shot using my laptop and it's just not responding)This is the second one to break down in 3& 1/2 years!. Two questions: Why do our firewire devices keep breaking and can someone recommend a new one? I'm running three amps to 6 speakers (I hope to expand to 8). I think we paid under four hundred for the Focusrite. We are a small 130 seat house with a small budget but we need something reliable that will be easy to set up and not break our bank. I also have a show opening in two weeks!! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Is it true that these firewire devices are simply not reliable? BTW; I do sound design but my knowledge is limited. I mainly am a good tinkerer who loves sound. Make sense? Thanks so much

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[Jeremy Lee]

Hmm. I've been hot swapping firewire devices forever, and never had a problem. One of the old reasons I've heard about why people have problems with this was that they forced a FW400 cable in the wrong way and blew it up. But if I rebooted every time I swapped a FW cable, I'd never get any work done...

[ra byn taylor]

Me too. Never even think about it. 

[ra byn taylor]

I had to have my (purchased brand new) RME FF800 replaced twice. Once due to the ROHS transition where the FW port just fell off inside the box & once due to something failing on a board. They fixed it but I had to pay shipping to them twice. After insurance, that's $100+ out of pocket on a warranty repair.

On the other hand none of my "cheap as dirt" Presonus Firebox (I own 5), has ever had a single problem. 

One of my brand new MH 2882's smoked as I demoed it for a friend after using is a hand full of times. They fixed it but I had to pay shipping to them.

I have (2) 10 year old MOTU 828's still going strong with no issues. 

I think it has less to do with cost of the device & more to do with the nature of FW, buss power & SMT. 

I got to tour a SMT facility last year. Now that I know how it all goes together, it's amazing that any of this stuff works at all. 

A guy told me at Bestbuy in the returns department years ago that 1/3 of everything they sell comes back due to customer issues. But the manufacturers don't have to spend as much on quality control & so the price is cheap. 

There are really good reasons to buy spares & to have more than one option when it comes to devices & manufaturers :)

ra byn

[Andy Dolph]

As always experiences vary - I've been burned by both Presonus interfaces I've owned - one a Firebox, and other a Firestudio Mobile - the Firebox has been back to Presonus and fixed, but then developed other problems, the Firestudio Mobile has developed an obnoxious problem where it will be ok, and then all of the sudden it's totally locked up and it's as if it's not connected to the computer.  But it's @#$@#^% intermittent so I can never get it to happen when I have time to really work with it to figure out what's wrong and get it fixed...

I've had basically good luck with MOTU interfaces except one that blew a PSU Fuse - but when the fuse was replaced was ok....  

But I wish that there was an interface that I was convinced was really going to be solid and reliable, and there are so many conflicting experiences, even on the relatively small community on this list....

It's just frustrating, and hard to know what to do, particularly when there is such a huge variation in cost for devices that would serve essentially the same purpose.

*looks down* wait, where did this soap box come from, and why am I standing on it??

*steps down and wanders away*

:p

Andy

[ra byn taylor]

I own (5) Presonus Firebox (no issues)

I own (1) RME FF800 (died once & mechanically failed once within the warranty period)

I own (4) MH 2882 (one died for no reason within the warranty period)

I own (1) MH ULN2 (no issues)

I own (2) MOTU 828 (no issues)

I own (2) Maudio Fastrack Pro USB based (no issues)

I own (2) Line 6 UX2 USB based (no issues)

I wouldn't certify any of these units for anyone because every unit in combination with the cable & host computer is it's own thing. Obviously one would expect a $1000+ box to work better than a $100 box but that's not the evidence I see.

The only safe route is to have a backup. A backup Mac & a backup audio interface. IF you want to cover the gig. Since every one expects me to deliver the audio I'm responsible for & no one is gonna give a sh*t about any excuse I might have, it's on me to have the backups & to let the producer know why it costs X. Not everyone can afford this but anyone making money on a show that is based on Qlab should be budgeting for backups.

Even better existing redundancy. 

ra byn (robin)

[Matthieu Gaillet]

I just bought the Saffire Pro 24 (249€) : it's clearly stated all over (sticker on the box, on the device, on the cd, in the readmes, on the website, ...) that it is strongly advised to power off devices before plugging them in.

I also was astonished (because of the fw spec that states that hot plugging should be supported); their website states the following : 

FireWire chip failures can happen for a number of reasons. All of Focusrite’s FireWire units adhere to the IEEE 1394 standard however it may be the case that the FireWire port on your computer motherboard or FireWire card does not. This can lead to damage from hot-plugging. 

Other FireWire chip failure causes include putting the connector in the wrong way round, putting it in at an angle or using a low quality or damaged FireWire cable. These can all apply even if your FireWire adapter and device adhere to the IEEE 1394 standard.

You've been warned :-) 

[Thomas Vecchione]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:44 AM, Matthieu Gaillet <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just bought the Saffire Pro 24 (249€) : it's clearly stated all over (sticker on the box, on the device, on the cd, in the readmes, on the website, ...) that it is strongly advised to power off devices before plugging them in.

I also was astonished (because of the fw spec that states that hot plugging should be supported); their website states the following : 

You will find this is true of just about any firewire manufacturer when you read the fine print.  It is a standard CYA thing and has been going on for quite some time because some people did do stupid things or cheap manufacturing and things broke.

Like others I have never had a FW device fail due to hot plugging.  I think Ra Byn summed it up, everyone's mileage with firewire interfaces seems to vary, I won't touch MOTU or Presonus, but have never had a problem with my Echo, RME, and Focusrite interfaces, or even the Mackie interfaces I have had.

           Thomas Vecchione

[ra byn taylor]

Speaking of interfaces, anyone using either of these with Qlab? I just saw one on a FFT rig @ a venue & the engineer said he loves his. He's got a few of them in different spaces. 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctaCapture/

If this one works as stated, it might be a great option for theaters with low budgets. 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuadCapture/

Anyone?

ra byn

[mackerr]

I have the Octa-Capture and have used it with QLab, iTunes, Reaper, and Smaart. So far it has been fine. I have had it since shortly after it was introduced.

Mac