[QLab] Any Matrox TripleHead2go Guru here?

[Thomas C. Gass]

Hi everybody,

I’m working on a new show where beside audio cues we will also work with two video screens. One is a beamer, the other one a HD Sony Bravia flatscreen-TV on stage. Since we will be touring with this show, I wanted to reduce the technical stuff to a minimum and decided to work with a Matrox TripleHead2Go digital version connected to my MacBookPro.

The beamer is connected DVI Out ->DVI In, whereas the Sony is connected DVI Out->HDMI Adapter->HDMI In. I’ve checked the setup at home with my Samsung flatscreen and it worked pefectly. In the theater I can’t get any signal to the Sony Flatscreen at all. Connecting my MacBook directly with the Sony works fine, but I can’t get it accept the signal out of the Matrox. On the other hand, the Matrox detects the display an it’s possible resolutions (but not the 1080p TV resolution...)

Does anybody had similar problems or a hint on how to solve this? Oh, and by the way: I thought it would be a good idea to update the Matrox drivers to the latest version – but it wasn’t: since the update I’m unable to start up Matrox PowerDesk software anymore... :-/

Thanks for your hints and support

Thomas

[John Taylor]

Never tried the DVI to HDMI adaptor BUT

my TripleHead2Go uses output 1 and 3 when only using 2 displays?

Is it patched right? Just a stab in the dark.

JT

[Thomas C. Gass]

I’ve tried all outputs so far – no chance... But thanks for the hint, I didn’t know
about this restricition.

[Richard Moores]

hi thomas

 

It might be worth getting hold of the supported resolutions for the beamer and TV and comparing them. I'm prettty sure the resolution has to be the same on each output, so the triplehead has to be set to the maximum common resolution the beamer and screen share.

 

It might also be worth clearing the video ram on the laptop which sometimes can cause issues when you swap displays around, especially using adapters. I think its apple+option+p+r on boot, but you might want to check that.

 

cheers

rich

 

 

---

From: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com [mailto:qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com] On Behalf Of Thomas C. Gass
Sent: 07 October 2011 13:32
To: ql...@lists.figure53.com
Subject: [QLab] Any Matrox TripleHead2go Guru here?

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[Matt]

Hi Thomas,

You may be suffering the fiendish effects of EDID. This is the
protocol that modern displays use to inform the host computer what
they capable of displaying, and it's known to cause issues
(particuarly with HDMI) if 'unusual' equipment is in the chain. In
this case, the TH2G is the 'unusual' bit. If the host doesn't see EDID
information that it likes, it won't send anything. I assume you've
tried all the alternatives within the TH2G driver.

You can get round this with a DVI Parrot, which spoofs the EDID
information to make the host happy; the actual image data is passed
through to the subsequent display equipment. More details here: www
dot tmb dot com slash products slash parrot. Many AV houses will hire
Parrots.

I had exactly this problem trying to drive a Panasonic projector over
HDMI; adding the Parrot fixed the issue.

Hope that helps,
Matt

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[Pim]

Hi Thomas,

you'll probably need to combine Richard's and Matt's solutions... Use
the same resolution on both projector and LCD panel AND solve the EDID
issue.
In addition to Matt's suggestion of using a Parrot (which is a great
piece of hardware btw, but will cost you some money) you might want to
consider connecting the LCD panel through VGA. This helps you get rid
of the EDID issues, allows you to use (much) bigger cable distances
and i.m.h.o. is perfectlty useable image quality for theater
environment. You could even get Full-HD resolution, it's just not
transported digitally, just use a DVI-toVGA cable or converter. I've
had issues with our Triplehead Digital once and solved them by
switching to a lower resolution. Even on 1280x768 or 1024x768
(depending on the chip of your projector) your Sony Bravia Panel will
look very good, and it reduces the processor load on your Macbook (a
lot).

Hope this helps, cheers,

Pim, the Netherlands

[Morgan Calma]

Also look at HDCP. I have had it play havoc with digital video. remember HDCP compliance does not mean it passes signal.

[Thomas C. Gass]

Thanks for all your hints and support so far!

I've tried everything so far, but it seems as if I have no luck with
matrox's TripleHead2go digital box... What I did so far:

I've connected the flatscreen via VGA - runs perfectly, no problem.
But now I noticed that can't connect ANY second monitor, beamer or
whatsoever.
I made sure I use the highes possible solution for both units, tried all
outputs, zapped the video ram - no chance. I can't configure 2 monitors,
just one... This starts to be spooky, 'cause we're facing the first dress
rehearsal next week... Any help and experience with this matrox blackbox is
very appreciated...

Thomas

Am 10/10/11 6:45 PM schrieb "Morgan Calma" unter <MCa...@NCBPAC.org>:

[Matthew Haber]

Try uninstalling the matrox drivers and utility and going without them. I have had that work in the past.

Matthew Haber
Visualist and Designer
Isadora, Quartz and Watchout Programming
www.matthewhaber.com
617-435-9257

[Morgan Calma]

An opera using one of my venues here now is having similar problems. With a triple head to go. After much trial and error. It seems that the mac is trying to send out HDCP and not get the "hand shake" it then shuts down the output. They have worked around it by using analog output (DVI-A). there setup is a mac pro outputting to 3 triple heads to go which are connected to 9 projectors. On analog it's now working fine. They are using OS 10.7 and not using QLab.

Hope this helps.

[Paul Gotch]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 04:15:59PM +0000, Morgan Calma wrote:
> An opera using one of my venues here now is having similar problems.
> With a triple head to go.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you run into problems when there are a
mix of devices that do and don't support HDCP attached or when the HDCP
negotiation fails for some reason possibly due to cable length. I can
quite imagine things getting confused if that is the case.

HDCP is an utter menace and has no place in a professional environment
unfortnately the content industry has managed to make it unavoidable.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[ra byn (robin)]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection

"HDCP strippers remove HDCP information from the video signal, allow the
data to flow freely to a non-HDCP display"

"HDCP can cause problems for users who want to connect multiple screens to
a device; for example, a bar with several televisions connected to one
satellite receiver. HDCP devices can create multiple keys, allowing each
screen to operate, but the number varies from device to device; e.g., a
Dish or Sky satellite receiver can generate 16 keys.[22] The technology
sometimes causes handshaking problems where devices cannot establish a
connection, especially with older high-definition displays.[23][24][25]"

"Edward Felten wrote "the main practical effect of HDCP has been to create
one more way in which your electronics could fail to work properly with
your TV," and concluded in the aftermath of the master key fiasco that
HDCP has been "less a security system than a tool for shaping the consumer
electronics market."[26]"

Is VGA / composite / component the only safe bets in town? If so, if you
convert from a HDCP format to one of these, does that resolve the issue
completely?

*

On Tue, October 11, 2011 12:15 pm, Paul Gotch wrote:
> HDCP is an utter menace and has no place in a professional environment
> unfortnately the content industry has managed to make it unavoidable.

________________________________________________________

[Morgan Calma]

Actualy not always. They were all DVI and HDMI into all HDCP Complainant devices. This is my 3rd run in to problems caused by
"pro consumer" grade digital video. I am now going to stick to analog or HD-SDI (pro grade)

>
> I'm going to hazard a guess that you run into problems when there are a mix
> of devices that do and don't support HDCP attached or when the HDCP
> negotiation fails for some reason possibly due to cable length. I can quite
> imagine things getting confused if that is the case.
>

[Paul Gotch]

On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:37:40AM +0000, Morgan Calma wrote:
> Actualy not always. They were all DVI and HDMI into all HDCP
> Complainant devices. This is my 3rd run in to problems caused by
> "pro consumer" grade digital video. I am now going to stick to
> analog or HD-SDI (pro grade)

The trouble is that all computers output DVI and try the HDCP
negotiation, no DVI->HD-SDI converter is HDCP compliant for obvious
reasons. So the best you get out of this is a guarantee that the HDCP
negotiation will fail off and you won't get a corrupted negotiation due
to cable length problems or somesuch.

You can get the same guarantee by using a DVI distribution amplifier
that doesn't support HDCP (if anyone makes sucha thing anymore).

The problem is that:

- Qlab doesn't support professional video IO boxes such as AJA Kona
etc.

- Even if it did support them you lose all the compositing features
provided by the GPU on the video card.

Nvidia used to make a Quadro which had an SDI output but I can't find
it anymore and I don't think it ever support OS X unfortunately.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Morgan Calma]

>
> "HDCP strippers remove HDCP information from the video signal, allow the
> data to flow freely to a non-HDCP display"

After investigating this option, I opt to stay away from strippers for production gear due to reliability issues.

>
> Is VGA / composite / component the only safe bets in town? If so, if you
> convert from a HDCP format to one of these, does that resolve the issue
> completely?

From my experience, it depends on how its converted, and if the device will let you convert. If the device is doing what it should do, it will not let you convert since it can't pass HDCP. That being said many devices can use DVI-A (Analog signal on a DVI connector) which does not have the HDCP on it from the start. I know the opera co. that had this problem was able to go DVI-A to the triple head then converted to VGA to get to the projectors. I should note that the mac and the projectors used in this setup are HDCP complaint. Also the content was original content without any copy protection. The triple head seems to not be listed has HDCP anything.

> On Tue, October 11, 2011 12:15 pm, Paul Gotch wrote:
> > HDCP is an utter menace and has no place in a professional environment
> > unfortnately the content industry has managed to make it unavoidable.

Agreed, Way to make a challenging thing more difficult.

[Thomas C. Gass]

Short update about my TripleHead2Go problem: No chance, I will have to
exchange the gear for a mac with 3 monitor outputs. The matrox does not
accept more than ONE monitor and the matrox website and support is of no
help... I can't even attach to identical computer monitors to the unit since
there is no video signal on output 2 nd 3.

Nevertheless, thanks for all your thoughts and input - I've tried
everything, but it did not help :-(

Best
Thomas

[Dominic.bilkey]

Possibility you may have a faulty unit? Can you source another to try?

Dom

[tcgass]

Final update on this problem :-)

Dom was right - I got a faulty unit... I had a mac support company
checking our setup and they
confirmed that the unit is faulty. Since I don't have time to have it
exchanged I found the following solution,
which might be interesting for other, too:

Kensington USB DualMonitor Extension

Although this external graphic card only gives a maximum resolution of
1440px the gear works perfectly.
In addition you could add more units via a USB hub! :-)

Thanks for all your support and feedback,
Thomas

On 13 Okt., 01:09, "Dominic.bilkey" <dominic.bil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Possibility you may have a faulty unit? Can you source another to try?
>
> Dom