QLAB AND X32 static/distortion and clicking???

[Matthew Evans]

Hello, My name is Matt Evans and I'm the technical director of the Theatre Program at the University of Dayton.

I'm running QLAB 3 on a Mac Book Pro using the digital interface inside the Behringer X32 connecting with a USB cable.  Currently
eight outputs using audio and an Epson projector.

We are experiencing a technical glitch that hopefully you can guide us on how to correct.

There have been two separate past experiences that when start a dress rehearsal with an audio file, the sound is distorted; almost sounds
like the speakers are blown.  We've discovered that the issue resolves itself after restarting the QLAB software. After the restart it never
occurs within the same show.

Another problem we're noticing is a pop or click sound when audio is playing; this happens throughout the playback of the cue.

Last night in front of an audience, we had to stop the show two times because of distorted sound.  The first time we restarted the program
and it fixed the problem.   The second time I pulled the USB cable and plugged it into another USB port on the MAC.

I contacted Figure 53 the makers of the QLAB software along with the MAC book pro info and the log files from QLAB (attached to this email) and they said:

These problems are all resulting from the computer being unable to find the audio device it's supposed to be sending audio to, which you can see in those logs you called out*. If you're lucky, this means that the USB cable is either loose or bad (I'd normally also suggest power, but since it's your console, I'm assuming you'd have realized that, although it could have been a brownout that was enough to screw up the audio interface, but not the console as a whole, I suppose).

If you're not lucky, it means that you need to get a higher quality interface. Unfortunately, Behringer isn't known for the quality of their audio gear, and it's entirely possible that their hardware or software is just flaky, and resetting itself or otherwise corrupting the connection.

Best of luck sorting this out, and shout back anytime we can help...here's hoping you have a more awesome weekend without further audio problems!

-Andy

* - For the geekier explanation, you'll see a bunch of errors that start with [?ohw]. Those are QLab logging that it can't find the device it's supposed to be operating on. audioDeviceDidDie logs mean exactly that, that the audio device it was supposed to be talking to is no longer there, and audioDeviceDidOverload means that QLab had data in RAM to send to the interface, but couldn't get it there in time (in this case, because the device disappeared).

[Chris Ashworth]

Hi Matthew,

Welcome to the list, it's nice to have you here.

You quoted Andy's original reply but didn't mention whether you tried
anything based on that advice. Have you tried swapping cables or
testing against a different device?

Distorted sound of the kind you describe is a classic symptom of a
problem "downstream" of QLab, i.e. in the audio device or drivers.

Best,
Chris

[micpool]

In all cases of this sort, (unless it really is just a duff USB cable)  the sensible thing to do, In the short term, is to get your show up and running in a way that is likely to restore everyones confidence in the sound system and then trouble shoot the actual cause of the problem later.

I would get an 8 way firewire interface and connect to the Behringer using analog inputs.

Mic

[Lists]

This sounds to m like a clocking issue. Is your media at the same sample rate that the X32 is running at?  

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
 
Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
<log files.docx><MacBook Pro.spx>

[Paul Gotch]

On 01/02/2014 13:55, micpool wrote:
> In all cases of this sort, (unless it really is just a duff USB cable)
> the sensible thing to do, In the short term, is to get your show up
> and running in a way that is likely to restore everyones confidence in
> the sound system and then trouble shoot the actual cause of the problem
> later.
>
> I would get an 8 way firewire interface and connect to the Behringer
> using analog inputs.

Assuming he's got Firewire on the Mac, obvious you can get a Thunderbolt
to FW800 converter.

For afterwards:

Does the X32 have the latest firmware?

Does the Mac have the latest drivers?

Does the X32 have the XUF card or the USB only one, if it has the XUF
card does Firewire make it any more stable?

I think Andy is being a bit hard on the X32, yes Behringer have
histoically made some pretty ropey kit but with the X32 they have made
something good and put the service behind it to back it up.

It's definately worth taking this up with Behringer Support.

Also note that the new Midas(*) M32 *is* and X32 with Midas faders and
Midas preamps.

-p
(*) Music Group which owns Behringer bought Midas a while ago. They also
own Klark Teknik and TurboSound.

[Paul Gotch]

On 01/02/2014 14:36, Lists wrote:
> This sounds to m like a clocking issue. Is your media at the same sample
> rate that the X32 is running at?

It wouldn't make a difference, if the media isn't at the output rate
QLab will be resampling to the rate of the output device. Since the
output device is the desk then there is only one clock source in the system.

-p

[Mark Nizer]

The same thing happened to me on two separate shows. Restarting the computer did not fix it. I have not been able to re-create it. I have the same clicking issue and blown speaker sound . I did not use the same audio interface and tried out of my FireWire interface and my headphone jack. 

Mark Nizer/Neisser

📩 Ni...@active-media.com

📲 434-974-9699

💻 http://activemedia.org

💻 http://Nizer.com

[Lee, Jeremy (lee4jm)]

Interesting.

http://midasconsoles.com/Products/M32.html

It looks like some of the screenshots are from Ableton Live.  Did Behringer license (or buy) Ableton, or is this another case of "boy that really looks exactly the same as something I've seen before."

On Feb 1, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Paul Gotch <pa...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Also note that the new Midas(*) M32 *is* and X32 with Midas faders and Midas preamps.

--

Jeremy J Lee

Assistant Professor - Sound Design

College-Conservatory of Music

University of Cincinnati

jerem...@uc.edu

o: (513) 556-9597

c: (347) 276-9468

[mev...@udayton.edu]

Hey Chris,

Thanks for the welcome.  I changed out my USB cable and it still happened.   I'm reverting back to a MOTU from our black Box tonight. 

[mev...@udayton.edu]

Synchronization rates are 4800

[mev...@udayton.edu]

MAC has the latest drivers
Qlab has the latest drivers.

On Friday, January 31, 2014 11:24:42 PM UTC-5, Matthew Evans wrote:

[Chris Ashworth]

Sounds good. It may also help to send us the console logs to look
through, which you can do by opening QLab and going to "Help" -->
"Contact Support" and checking the box to include console logs.

[Matthew Evans]

I included that in my original post.

Thank you,
Matt Evans
513-464-3854

Sent from my iPhone

> --
> --
> Change your preferences or unsubscribe here: http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
>
> Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
>

> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "QLab" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qlab/IIY5gt0_KuQ/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Chris Ashworth]

Ah, you did indeed, thanks. I missed that.

I would actually still request to do it through QLab, because it will
send it in a format that is easier for us to read and it will include
more information than was in the files you originally sent.

At first glance I do see some concerning logs, and that you're using
version 3.0.14. (Current version is 3.0.15.)

Thanks!

[Sam Kusnetz]

Hi Matthew

Sam here, another member of the QLab team.

Looking through your logs I see a lot of clues that suggest your system isn’t quite able to keep up with your design. Notably, I see that your computer has a 5400 RPM hard drive, which is almost definitely part of the problem. If you have an available FireWire port (or Thunderbolt power with a FireWire adapter), I strongly encourage moving your show to an external 7200 RPM hard disk or, even better, an SSD.

I also see, as Andy said earlier, indications that QLab is losing contact with the interface, which is almost definitely a cable problem or a driver problem. So double-checking your firmware and drivers as you have done is the first step, and replacing the USB cable is the next.

Finally, as Chris said, please update QLab to version 3.0.15.

Thanks
Sam

—
Sam Kusnetz
QLab Field Operative
s...@figure53.com

[Mark Nizer]

Does the sound issue also happen out the headphone jack?

Mark Nizer

When the Entertainment Matters

http://nizer.com

ma...@nizer.com

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab

Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53

---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Matthew Evans]

We did not get a chance to see if it does distort in the headphones.  Its on our list to do. 

On Friday, January 31, 2014 11:24:42 PM UTC-5, Matthew Evans wrote:

[Matthew Evans]

We are updating to the latest version.   I see how to send the logs directly from QLAB to QLAB, but how do I get them directly from QLAB for my own viewing?

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 1, 2014 at 3:18:40 PM, Matthew Evans (mjede...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > We are updating to the latest version. I see how to send the logs
> directly from QLAB to QLAB, but how do I get them directly from
> QLAB for my own viewing?

When you say “directly from QLAB to QLAB” I assume you mean to Figure 53?

In any event, you can view your console logs by opening Console.app in Applications/Utilities.

Cheerio

[Matthew Evans]

Yes Figure 53.  So thats what I downloaded to the group page.  Christopher Ashworth said there is a way to to download them directly from the QLAB software.  Am I missing something?

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 1, 2014 at 3:22:40 PM, Matthew Evans (mev...@udayton.edu) wrote:

> Yes Figure 53. So thats what I downloaded to the group page. Christopher
> Ashworth said there is a way to to download them directly from
> the QLAB software. Am I missing something?

I’m not sure I understand what you mean…

Chris gave you instructions for sending us your console logs from within QLab, which you have done. I reviewed that and sent you an email regarding my findings within the last hour.

If you’re asking whether there’s a way for you to view these logs from within QLab, then the answer is no. You can only view them in the Console app.

[Matthew Evans]

Ive learned that our files are sampled at  44.1k and the Behringer was set at 48k.   The Behringer can be switched to 44.1 and I plan on doing that tonight.  I am also reducing the size of our JPG files in half with the hopes that we reduce how much our hard drive has to work.  Make sense?

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:25:34 PM UTC-5, Christopher Ashworth wrote:

[Matthew Evans]

Got it

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 1, 2014 at 3:26:38 PM, Matthew Evans (mjede...@gmail.com) wrote:
> Ive learned that our files are sampled at 44.1k and the Behringer
> was set at 48k. The Behringer can be switched to 44.1 and I plan
> on doing that tonight 

> I am also reducing the size of our JPG files in half with the hopes
> that we reduce how much our hard drive has to work. Make sense?

These measures will only prove helpful if your computer is operating at the limit of its capacity.

The three most important things for you to do are:

1. Replace the USB cable that connects your Mac to the console.
2. Test to find out whether the distortion occurs using any other audio output device.
3. Update to the most recent version of QLab (3.0.15)

Until you do those three things, all other troubleshooting is absolutely secondary.

[Matthew Evans]

We replaced the USB before show yesterday and it still happened.   I'm getting ready to use a MOTU ultra link and test that out.

We have updated to the latest software today.

Fingers crossed!

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 1, 2014 at 3:32:47 PM, Matthew Evans (mev...@udayton.edu) wrote:
> We replaced the USB before show yesterday and it still happened.
> I'm getting ready to use a MOTU ultra link and test that out.
> We have updated to the latest software today.

Right on.

With the Ultralight, also take care to be absolutely sure of the firmware and drivers. The most recent MOTU Universal driver installer is the only way to go. Also, it’s important to put the Ultralight on external power, not on bus power.

Fingers crossed indeed, and keep us posted!

[Matthew Evans]

Thank you for all the help.

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Morgan Calma]

> Does the X32 have the latest firmware?
>
> Does the Mac have the latest drivers?
>

******** Does the X32 have the XUF card or the USB only one, if it has the XUF card does

> Firewire make it any more stable?

From Behringer X-UF (firewire/usb card) firmware release notes

BEHRINGER X-UF Expansion Card Firmware/Driver Update
Update firmware 8412 and ASIO/WDM driver 6.13
This update improves the synchronization of USB connectivity with Mac OS X software. Users running
Windows or using the FireWire option are not affected by this update.

I am running a show on firewire with 16 tracks and no problems.

Morgan

[mev...@udayton.edu]

Alright everyone.  

Here's the latest.  I have not downloaded version 2.01 on the Behringer as it is still in beta testing. 

• QLAB 3 has been fully updated as of yesterday before the show; even though I dont think the latest update affects any of the problems I'm experiencing.

• I went through the show and made sure all the files were Aiff.  I had one wav file, but again I dont think that affects any of the problems I'm experiencing.
• I change the sample rate on the X32 from 48k down to 44.1k to match the files sample rate.  From what I understand the MAC will automatically recognize the 44.1 on its own. 
• I hooked up a MOTU UltraLite-mk3 Hybrid - 10-in/14-out USB 2.0 and FireWire Hybrid Audio Interface.  I'm using a USB 2 cable from the MAC, using 8 analog out into the back of the X32.

We ran the show last night and we did not experience the "clicks" or the "distorted sound".  YAY!   Logs are attached to this post.  There are warnings but I need help understanding what those are.

I would like Sam to point out in my logs (from the night before or the current ones) where he is noticing a design overload as my team cant figure out where he's noting that.

This week, I plan on running the show during the day back to the XUF and trouble shooting.  I'm planning on contacting Behringer regarding the XUF to see what their diagnosis is. 

All thoughts are welcomed!!!

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 2, 2014 at 12:45:03 PM, mev...@udayton.edu (mev...@udayton.edu) wrote:
> I would like Sam to point out in my logs (from the night before
> or the current ones) where he is noticing a design overload as
> my team cant figure out where he's noting that.

In the log you sent earlier, there were a number of “audioDeviceDidOverload” messages, which means that the audio device was ready for data, but the computer wasn’t supplying it. That often comes from a too-slow hard disk.

Also, if I may, could I request that you not send logs in MS Word format? Plain text is much better for us. Thank you!

[Steven Devino]

What if you just got something other than the Behringer?

It is so hard to sit here and bight my tongue. 

Steve Devino

Mobile

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
 
Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
 
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

<2.1 after show.docx>

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 2, 2014 at 1:50:36 PM, Steven Devino (sde...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > What if you just got something other than the Behringer?
>
> It is so hard to sit here and bight my tongue.

Steven

While I generally agree with you, and many folks, that the B-word is a dirty word, the X32 was one of Behringer’s first major products that was entirely designed and built after the Midas buyout. Therefore, many folks surmised that it could be the start of a new era.

Up until now, there have been a number of reports of X32 users which support this idea, and I for one was encouraged by that.

Of course we now have new reason to doubt the X32, and if it turns out to be a systemic problem I agree that it’s fair to return Behringer to the “no nay never” list. But I think it’s only fair for us to acknowledge that unlike Behringer devices of the past, there has been good news about this product.

[Matthew Evans]

Thanks Sam.  My team will look at this closer tomorrow.  Plain text  from now on shouldn't be a problem! :)  Thanks for your help.

[Steven Devino]

I just saw 2 products in their booth at NAMM that are extremely similar to products we make. Not sure how you would feel if someone else used your sound design.

Steve Devino
Mobile

[Matthew Evans]

Steve,

My school is known for its research. We followed this board since it's inception. In 2010, the Music Group, Behringer's parent company, acquired two closely linked British companies. Midas are very well known for class-leading live-sound mixing consoles, while Klark Teknik make ancillary equipment like graphic equalizers, system controllers, compressors and the classic DN780 reverb.

The three companies' joint technical expertise has  produced its first fruit in the X32, a product that looks set to completely overturn the market for budget digital mixing consoles. For anyone who hasn't already been caught up in the marketing excitement, the X32 is a fully featured, 32-channel, 16-bus digital mixer with a generous supply of built-in effects and an impressively comprehensive feature set. It is geared primarily towards live sound and theatre geeks like myself. 

We are very pleased with the board thus far and many people who have come into my venue are very impressed with it.  In fact some people have actually said they wish they had purchased the X32 instead of the LS9. 

I am aware of Behringers past, but here to looking to the future and taking risks! :)  I'm hopeful this is a minor hiccup.  

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 2, 2014 at 4:17:36 PM, Steven Devino (sde...@gmail.com) wrote:
> I just saw 2 products in their booth at NAMM that are extremely
> similar to products we make. Not sure how you would feel if someone
> else used your sound design.

I would feel furious and litigious, and I completely understand and support you if you feel this way towards Behringer.

However, I feel is is not fair to anyone to commingle technical assessment and politics. With Behringer products of the past, it was easy to do that because the politics, the ethics, and the sound quality all sucked. But that does not mean those attributes are actually correlated, or evne if they are they aren’t necessarily causally related. Some people choose to avoid using Gmail because they do not approve of Google’s ethics, and that’s perfectly fair. Saying Gmail is a lousy email service isn’t really fair.

I think we owe it to each other to assess the technical merits of products as impartially as we can, and then separately assess and discuss any ethical or political implications of those products.

[Dave Gmail]

We'll, of course, if the LS9 is your standard of measure, it's not so hard to see other consoles as an improvement. 

I used an X32 once for a musical. ONCE. Not again.

For a club or a small band, yes, I think it has much to recommend it.

Inflexible handling of pre/post ALONE kills it for me for serious work. (Pre/post on sends only assignable in pairs). Block of 8 assignment of inputs and outputs, and unpredictable function of the S16 is another nail in the coffin. 

Much is brilliant - sends on faders, scribble strips, it sounds pretty good. But the interface is confusing (granted all are till you learn them), the limitations are surprising, and ultimately, for me, those limitations make it unworkable for a show with more than 8-10 vocals. 

It's a shame, because it is close. But I would say I lost at least 3 full working days to trying to create work-arounds to things at should have been no-brainers.  

Small straight-theatre companies - it's a serious option. If you really need to fully populate 32 channels (and then some) - it will just be frustrating to use. It is what it is, and I admit that's 

not bad for some uses. 

Research is lovely - but if that starts just 4 years back, it's not actually very convincing to people who have been working in the biz for 35-40 years. Call us hidebound if you like, think of us as conservative old phartes. But be prepared to hear us say "I told you so" at some point.

(We'll similarly be ready to hear you say that too.)

The big thing in my way of thinking is - everyone needs to do that research for themselves. You have to make a careful list of everything you can imagine needing to do, and then ask hard questions and insist on being shown how the console in question does those things. That holds true for the B board, the Midas, and the Yamaha and Digico and Allen & Heath. Asking the question on a forum like this is good for narrowing down, but there is no substitute for hands-on kicking of proverbial tires. 

Dave Tosti-Lane

Grumpy Old Pharte

[Steven Devino]

Matt you may be right about the future. One can always hope. But the recent NAMM last week was discouraging. 

And btw I highly doubt that Midas or KT had anything to do with the x32 given the timing. And you should be clear that TMG Is Behringer and they are the ones who bought the other two. 

Steve Devino

Mobile

[Paul Gotch]

On 02/02/2014 23:04, Steven Devino wrote:
> Matt you may be right about the future. One can always hope. But the
> recent NAMM last week was discouraging.
>
> And btw I highly doubt that Midas or KT had anything to do with the x32
> given the timing. And you should be clear that TMG Is Behringer and they
> are the ones who bought the other two.

TMG bought Midas an KT in 2010, the X32 wasn't released until 2012 and
not everyone has the 10 year design cycles that Yamaha does, and he was
clear that TMG/Behringer bought Midas and KT.

I'm not defending Behringer here, in fact I've just ejected a Behringer
DI from the rig in the production of Avenue Q I'm doing at the moment
and replaced with MTR due to the Behringer being noisy and introducing
rather than eliminating earth loops.

However the 'it has the 'B' word on it therefore it must be useless' is
just brand snobbery these days.

For example I've:

- Crashed a Yamaha M7CL.
- Had expensive interfaces from MOTU and RME disappear from underneath
QLab in the same way as the OP is describing.
- Had a plethora of fader related problems with a Digico SD8.
- Had A&H iLive surfaces crash on me, athough the mix-rack carried on
without control.

The point is just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's any more
reliable than if it's cheap.

-p

[Angus Turner]

I've crashed an LS9 as well :)

Thanks
Angus Turner
angus...@gmail.com

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here: http://groups.google.com/group/qlab

Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53

--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Matthew Evans]

Here's an update regarding the X32 and QLAB.

After running the show via MOTU this weekend, we've been busy troubleshooting the last few days.  It's safe to say that I can take the MAC notebook out of the equation; we ran a hardware diagnostic and the ram,the hard drive and all USB ports are checking out.  That leaves us with the with The Behringer or the QLAB software. 

I spoke with the good folks at the Music Group and they suggested to run the show on fire wire rather than USB.  I should have the fire wire tomorrow.  I also learned the manufacturer of the XUF chip set is no longer making that chipset and instead Behringer is shipping the latest X32 boards with a XUSB chipset.  They said if the the board produces static hooked up with fire wire then its definitly the XUF card and they would overnight a XUSB card to replace the XUF card. 

I'm 95% sure I have figured out the tick.  The boards sample rate was set at 48k; the music files were set at 41.4k.  We changed the sample rate to 41.4k and the ticks and the error Warning: dropped 512 frames (0.01 seconds of audio) disappeared.  YAY!

We ran the show three times in a row today and was not able to get the distortion sound. This is a little frustrating!  BUT...we are making progress!

BTW - The x32's inception...

-in·cep·tion  (ĭn-sĕp′shən)n.

The beginning of something, such as an undertaking; a commencement. See Synonyms at origin.

...was in late 2010. :)  

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/12/04/behringer-x32-digital-mixing-console/

[Steven Devino]

The issue has nothing to do with whether or not their products are useful. They certainly make some very useful and probably quite reliable stuff especially when considering the cost. 

I pointed out my issue in my original post. Many others have had similar issues. I will not get any more specific than that. 

In terms of the acquisition, my point was that B is the mothership, not some altruistic holding company. And the development cycle might not be 10 years but it certainly isn’t 1 year either. 

[Matthew Evans]

Sound on Sound has dubbed the Behringer X32 Digital Mixing Console the “Best Live Sound Product” at this year’s NAMM show. More than 100,000 of the groundbreaking consoles have been sold, making the Behringer X32 the best-selling digital mixer of all time. The X32 also won the Pro Sound Web and Live Sound International “Readers’ Choice Awards” at NAMM 2013, as well as the Musikmesse International Press Award that same year.

The X32 Compact won the prestigious Small Format Consoles & Mixers category award over some very formidable competition, namely the Allen & Heath QU Series and Soundcraft Si Expression – which took 2nd and 3rd place, respectively. Smaller in physical size, but equipped with the same award-winning 40-Input, 25-Bus mix engine as its larger sibling – the X32 Compact features 16 programmable Midas preamps, 17 motorized faders, channel LCDs, 32-channel audio interface and iPad/iPhone remote control. The X32 Compact I/O can be expanded via Behringer’s onboard, proprietary ULTRANET and Klark Teknik’s AES50 connectivity to full-sized X32 capacity.

Thank you,

Matt Evans

513-464-3854

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2014, at 1:15 PM, "mev...@udayton.edu" <mev...@udayton.edu> wrote:

MAC has the latest drivers
Qlab has the latest drivers.

On Friday, January 31, 2014 11:24:42 PM UTC-5, Matthew Evans wrote:

Hello, My name is Matt Evans and I'm the technical director of the Theatre Program at the University of Dayton.

I'm running QLAB 3 on a Mac Book Pro using the digital interface inside the Behringer X32 connecting with a USB cable.  Currently
eight outputs using audio and an Epson projector.

We are experiencing a technical glitch that hopefully you can guide us on how to correct.

There have been two separate past experiences that when start a dress rehearsal with an audio file, the sound is distorted; almost sounds
like the speakers are blown.  We've discovered that the issue resolves itself after restarting the QLAB software. After the restart it never
occurs within the same show.

Another problem we're noticing is a pop or click sound when audio is playing; this happens throughout the playback of the cue.

Last night in front of an audience, we had to stop the show two times because of distorted sound.  The first time we restarted the program
and it fixed the problem.   The second time I pulled the USB cable and plugged it into another USB port on the MAC.

I contacted Figure 53 the makers of the QLAB software along with the MAC book pro info and the log files from QLAB (attached to this email) and they said:

These problems are all resulting from the computer being unable to find the audio device it's supposed to be sending audio to, which you can see in those logs you called out*. If you're lucky, this means that the USB cable is either loose or bad (I'd normally also suggest power, but since it's your console, I'm assuming you'd have realized that, although it could have been a brownout that was enough to screw up the audio interface, but not the console as a whole, I suppose).

If you're not lucky, it means that you need to get a higher quality interface. Unfortunately, Behringer isn't known for the quality of their audio gear, and it's entirely possible that their hardware or software is just flaky, and resetting itself or otherwise corrupting the connection.

Best of luck sorting this out, and shout back anytime we can help...here's hoping you have a more awesome weekend without further audio problems!

-Andy

* - For the geekier explanation, you'll see a bunch of errors that start with [?ohw]. Those are QLab logging that it can't find the device it's supposed to be operating on. audioDeviceDidDie logs mean exactly that, that the audio device it was supposed to be talking to is no longer there, and audioDeviceDidOverload means that QLab had data in RAM to send to the interface, but couldn't get it there in time (in this case, because the device disappeared).

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
 
Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
 
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "QLab" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qlab/IIY5gt0_KuQ/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Sam Kusnetz]

Folks

While I don't want to step on any conversations, I would like to ask that we try to keep this discussion relevant to QLab. If folks are interesting in continuing to discuss the X32 in general, perhaps the theater sound list is a more appropriate forum?

Thanks

[Matthew Evans]

Sam,

My apologies.   Meanwhile back to QLAB...we have been working with a fire wire connection into the digital interface on the board and have changed the sample rate from 48k to 44.1k. We have not had any problems with clicks or the distorted sound. 

I'm starting to think the problem was the sample rate on the board. The MAC checked out fine on the diagnostics. 

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Tyler]

Shouldn't QL be SRC to the output destination SR? QLab should of been outputting at 48 the entire time.

[Matthew Evans]

Tyler,   The music files were 44.1k.  I checked Audacity and it's SRC default is 44.1k; a program we use frequently to convert and edit files in.  I want to say ITUNES is 44.1k as well.    Depending on your interface settings, the interface will change the SRC on the MAC automatically.   Our board was set at 48k.  

So I gather the the interface was 48k, the MAC followed at 48k and the files were at 44.1k, therefore the files were sometimes off by .01 of a second.   My theory is that's  what was causing the ticks and and sometimes causing the distortion.  

Make sense?

Thank you,

Matt Evans

513-464-3854

Sent from my iPhone

[Chris Ashworth]

Hi Matthew,

QLab automatically converts sample rates on the fly if the file rate
does not match the device rate.

The sample rate of the device may still be related to the problem, but
from QLab's perspective it will be supplying 48K if that is what the
device is currently using.

-C

Matthew Evans wrote:
> Tyler, The music files were 44.1k. I checked Audacity and it's SRC
> default is 44.1k; a program we use frequently to convert and edit files
> in. I want to say ITUNES is 44.1k as well. Depending on your interface
> settings, the interface will change the SRC on the MAC automatically.
> Our board was set at 48k.
>
> So I gather the the interface was 48k, the MAC followed at 48k and the
> files were at 44.1k, therefore the files were sometimes off by .01 of a
> second. My theory is that's what was causing the ticks and and sometimes
> causing the distortion.
>
> Make sense?
>
> Thank you,
> Matt Evans
> 513-464-3854
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:32 AM, Tyler <tgot...@gmail.com

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 6, 2014 at 2:06:04 PM, Chris Ashworth (ch...@figure53.com) wrote:
> QLab automatically converts sample rates on the fly if the file
> rate does not match the device rate.
>
> The sample rate of the device may still be related to the problem,
> but from QLab's perspective it will be supplying 48K if that is what
> the device is currently using.

I’d like to add on to this, if I may…

QLab (via Core Audio) does this resampling automatically, but it does take some amount of processing power to do that. If your computer is working hard in general, either in terms of CPU cycles or in terms of hard disk access, this extra processing can mean the difference between dropped samples and no dropped samples.

Therefore, while a sample rate mis-match isn’t inherently a problem for QLab, if can nevertheless sometimes cause a problem, and unfortunately you cannot definitively conclude whether the problem is due to a problem with the interface, the sample rate mis-match, or an underpowered Mac without doing a bit of systematic testing.

Cheerio

[Matthew Evans]

We ran last nights show with a MOTU and had 4 different warnings in the show logs  that read...QLab[186]: Warning: audioDeviceDidOverload: MOTU

So doesn't this tell me its a QLAB issue because its now giving me the same warning on the MOTU as the XUF on the Behringer?  We had the Mac (1 TB 5400rpm, 8 g Ram) running firewire to the MOTU.  I'll reiterate the Diagnostics on the MAC are fine.   There's never more than 1 video and 1 audio track running at the same time in the design.  Audio tracks and video are being stopped when they are finished. 

Matt

[Chris Ashworth]

Hi Matthew,

audioDeviceDidOverload means QLab was not able to provide audio samples
to meet the deadline of the audio driver. This is most commonly because
of CPU load.

Questions:

Did you hear an audible glitch in audio? It may not have resulted in
audible problems.

Did you happen to notice when the logs where generated relative to what
was happening in operation of the program?

The 5400 rpm drive is of some concern, but usually that would result in
a dropped frame log rather than an overload log. Even so, double check
energy saver settings in the system preferences to make sure the drive
is not allowed to go to sleep.

It may help to check Activity Monitor for unexpected other software
running at the same time, in case that is causing a CPU load.

Best,
Chris

[Angus Turner]

I would run through the show with activity monitor on and see where the CPU
hits are. You can even set it up so it has a floating Bar which has a graph
of the CPU cores.

With the load you have it sounds like something else is running in the
background and eating the CPU.

Have you followed the advice here?

Thanks
Angus Turner
angus...@gmail.com

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Angus Turner <h...@theangus.org> wrote:

I would run through the show with activity monitor on and see where the CPU hits are. You can even set it up so it has a floating Bar which has a graph of the CPU cores.

With the load you have it sounds like something else is running in the background and eating the CPU.

Have you followed the advice here?

Thanks
Angus Turner
e:  h...@theangus.org

m: 0424972516

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here: http://groups.google.com/group/qlab

Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53

--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Jeremy Lee]

Try disabling unused digital I/O on the MOTU in the MOTU Audio Setup application.  If you've got all of the I/O enabled, it can overload the USB or FireWire bus.  If you've got the hard drive on the same bus as the MOTU, that could also overload the bus.  If you're using a high sample rate (i.e. 88.2 or 96k) that could be causing the overload as well.

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab
 
Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53
 
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "QLab" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

-- 

Jeremy Lee

    Sound Designer, NYC - USA 829

        http://www.jjlee.com

[Sam Kusnetz]

> We ran last nights show with a MOTU and had 4 different warnings 

> in the show logs that read... QLab[186]: Warning: audioDeviceDidOverload: 

> MOTU
> >
> > So doesn't this tell me its a QLAB issue because its now giving 
> me the same warning on the MOTU as the XUF on the Behringer? We had 
> the Mac (1 TB 5400rpm, 8 g Ram) running firewire to the MOTU.

It is quite likely that there is a correlation between the audio device overload and the 5400 RPM disk drive. Try moving your show files to a flash drive or 7200 RPM hard drive connected by FireWire or USB3 (not USB2; flash over USB2 is not that fast.)

On February 9, 2014 at 3:20:29 PM, Jeremy Lee (jerem...@jjlee.com) wrote:
> Try disabling unused digital I/O on the MOTU in the MOTU Audio
> Setup application. If you've got all of the I/O enabled, it can
> overload the USB or FireWire bus. 

This is also good advice.

[Andrew Nagy]

Sam (or anyone),

Sorry to diverge, but I keep seeing this mentioned and wanted to ask, Is there actually an improvement compared to a internal 5400 RPM drive (I assume its over SATA so it can burst from 1.5 gb to 3.0 gb depending on Mac) vs an externally connected firewire 7200 RPM drive (that can only burst up to 800mb/s)?

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 10, 2014 at 12:19:52 PM, Andrew Nagy (andre...@the159.com) wrote:
> Sorry to diverge, but I keep seeing this mentioned and wanted
> to ask, Is there actually an improvement compared to a internal
> 5400 RPM drive (I assume its over SATA so it can burst from 1.5 gb
> to 3.0 gb depending on Mac) vs an externally connected firewire
> 7200 RPM drive (that can only burst up to 800mb/s)?

There is a huge, huge difference. A 5400 RPM drive on a SATA bus is like putting my grandmother behind the wheel of a Porsche: no productive good can come of it.

We’ve been talking about this long enough that I feel comfortable saying this bluntly: if your QLab system isn’t performing well, and there’s a 5400 RPM drive involved in any way, swap it out. If you don’t, you’ll never be able to solve your problem. Even if the drive isn’t the problem, it can be compounding the problem or masking the real problem. It’s a cheap fix, and there’s pretty much no reason not to do it.

[Paul Gotch]

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 09:19:30AM -0800, Andrew Nagy wrote:
> Sorry to diverge, but I keep seeing this mentioned and wanted to ask, Is
> there actually an improvement compared to a internal 5400 RPM drive (I
> assume its over SATA so it can burst from 1.5 gb to 3.0 gb depending on
> Mac) vs an externally connected firewire 7200 RPM drive (that can only
> burst up to 800mb/s)?

And is likely on the same bus as the audio interface. Also a 2.5" 5400
RPM drive can sometimes actually be quicker than a 3.5" 7200 RPM drive.
It also depends if we are talking seek times or serial transfer rate.

The answer as always is 'it depends'.

The time it takes to read from disk effectively means if it has to hit
rotaing disk at all it's probably going to fail to complete the ioproc
before the time period expires.

It would be interesting to have some indication of what QLab was doing
under the ioprocs ie if it had to go to read from a file, or if it
blocked on reading from another thread for any period of time or if it
just had the data on hand and could service the ioproc immediately.

It would also be interesting to know (and possible to be able to
adjust) the bufferframe size. Increasing the buffer size obviously
increases latency but gives more wiggle room for unexpected delays in
providing data before the device overloads.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Matthew Evans]

Would installing a 128g solid state drive take care of the problem?

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

--
--
Change your preferences or unsubscribe here:
http://groups.google.com/group/qlab

Follow Figure 53 on Twitter: http://twitter.com/Figure53

---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "QLab" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qlab/IIY5gt0_KuQ/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to qlab+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[Paul Gotch]

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:37:59PM -0500, Matthew Evans wrote:
> Would installing a 128g solid state drive take care of the problem?

Only figure53 can answer that as only they know what is going on
underneath their CoreAudio ioprocs and how they manage buffers.

SSDs are, unfortunately, not a silver bullet. To maintain stable
performance over time SSDs depend crucially on a feature called TRIM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_%28computing%29

It's widely suspected but not known that Mac OS X only supports TRIM on
Apple supplied SSDs.

[Matthew Evans]

In light of recent events and the several comments made about our 1TB 145 rpm hard drive, I am considering replacing the hard drive.  Recommendations are welcomed at this point.  Beheringer is sending me a new XUF card to test as well.   

I really appreciate everyone's input.

Thank you,


Matthew J. Evans
Boll Theatre Technical Director
Faculty Theatre Lecturer

Theatre Program - College of Arts and Sciences

The University of Dayton

Dayton, OH  45469-2945

Office:  937-229-3834

NOTICE: This e-mail message contains privileged and/or confidential information and is intended only for recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, please delete this message. Any distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. 

[Sam Kusnetz]

On February 10, 2014 at 1:34:36 PM, Matthew Evans (mev...@udayton.edu) wrote:
> In light of recent events and the several comments made about
> our 1TB 145 rpm hard drive, I am considering replacing the hard
> drive. Recommendations are welcomed at this point.

Get an SSD from Other World Computing and never look back.

[Simon Eves]

Just wondering if there was a satisfactory outcome to this, in the end?

I had a distortion problem this past weekend too. See the following thread for details, as I can't be bothered typing it all again.

https://soundforums.net/threads/10603-QLab-2010-MacBook-Pro-FireWire-X32-SFX-Playback-Audio-Distortion

The computer is getting a little long in the tooth, but it does have an SSD. Like I said in that thread, I have run audio down FireWire *and* VGA video from QLab while simultaneously recording 32 tracks back up FireWire with Reaper, and it's never glitched or shown more than 40% CPU load before.

[Matthew J. Evans]

Simon,

To answer your question - yes!  I know the pain you're struggling with.  Because we use QLAB frequently at our university I was proactive on resolving this problem quickly. This is what I did:

• I replaced my 5400RPM drive on my MAC with a SSD drive
• I made a request from Behringer that they send me the "new" USB Card.  My X32 was originally shipped with the old XUF card.  By the way I recommend holding on to it in case you ever have future problems with the USB card.
• Changed my USB cable to Firewire
• I changed my sample rate from 48 to 44.  I suspected this was really the main culprit.  For the future make sure your program your using, Audacity, ITunes or whatever, matches your boards sample rate.
  

I feel the OS &/or Qlab were trying to output 44.1k content  ‘on the fly’ re sampling up to 48k. What I learned was that many devices, when the sample rate changes, disconnect briefly in order to restart at a different sampling rate. QLab really freaks out when a device disconnects while it is trying to play audio (as it should). If you check your QLab logs you will notice a log stating "disconnected device".

Basically four things in the equation (OSX, QLab, USB interface, x32) are all trying to solve the problem at the same time, which causes a whole slew of other problems.

I hope this helps you.  Please let me know your findings

Thank You,

Matthew J. Evans
Cell:  513-464-3854

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Sam Kusnetz]

Matthew J. Evans wrote:
> I made a request from Behringer that they send me the "new" USB Card.
> My X32 was originally shipped with the old XUF card. By the way I
> recommend holding on to it in case you ever have future problems with
> the USB card.

The "old" USB card has been known, with certainty, to cause the
static/distortion problem in several cases. I believe that replacing the
card with the "new" card is more or less mandatory.

All the other suggestions may or may not be relevant, but this one is a
sure thing.

Cheerio
Sam

--