running qlab backup
Russell Bell
several weeks that will require sync audio and lighting. I was
planning on using Qlab running off of an iMac to play the audio out to
a presonus firestudio while sending MTC to an ETC ion board.
Much of this is new to me and i'm trying to work my way through it all
so if something doesn't make sense please forgive me . I'm trying to
figure out the best way to run a redundancy of qlab. I'll have to set
qlab and leave it running for the duration of the show so i need to
make sure that if for some reason there is a glitch on one computer
the other can quickly takeover. I'm wondering if anyone has any
suggestions on how to handle this. Ideal is automated as there won't
always be someone skilled around to fix it, but worst case scenario
would have to be a simple switch. We'll also have an ion board as
backup.
Right now it's been suggested and we're thinking of using a duck echo
sound midi remote to trigger both qlab and the backup (both on imacs)
audio will be going out of both to separate presonus firestudio's
which will run through a Radial SW8 auto-switcher to take over if one
qlab fails. Not sure how to handle the midi timecode from qlab to the
boards though. Was thinking about using a midi solutions programmable
input selector and then manually hit the switch if needed which isn't
ideal. Any thoughts? Thanks so much.
ra byn (robin)
Your audio plan is sound. I use (2) SW8s & run an A/B/C Qlab rig (because
I can). Trigger a pilot tone on the A machine. Route it out of the audio
I/O to the control input of the SW8. If the A machine dies, the B will
take over seamlessly. If you want specifics, write me off list.
For lighting it's a bit more complicated. If you interrupt the data
stream, you're likely to have something get stuck. A few thoughts.
You could merge both consoles @ the DMX level & just keep the master fader
down on one console but let them go all the time. If you use a merge
device that allows for priority settings (Highest takes priority, last
takes priority, etc...) you might be fine.
If it were me, I'd use Light Factory x 2 on PCs. There is an auto tracking
feature that you set up via IP addresses. As long the A machine is working
the B machine is off line. If it drops, B takes over.
But I'm not sure about the whole MSC part of it since I haven't had to do it.
The midi solutions device is good. I have one on a touring show. But if
you mid data stream, you can have things get stuck.
I've seen midi "panic" devices before. Press a button & it flushes the
data stream. Basically an everything off command. I just haven't seen one
in a long time.
It sure seems like an EOS should have a tracking backup option.
If you want any specifics, write offlist.
Best regards,
ra byn
Andy Leviss
<russells...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right now it's been suggested and we're thinking of using a duck echo
> sound midi remote to trigger both qlab and the backup (both on imacs)
> audio will be going out of both to separate presonus firestudio's
> which will run through a Radial SW8 auto-switcher to take over if one
> qlab fails. Not sure how to handle the midi timecode from qlab to the
> boards though. Was thinking about using a midi solutions programmable
> input selector and then manually hit the switch if needed which isn't
> ideal. Any thoughts? Thanks so much.
Well, first, I'm of course glad to hear our remotes recommended, and
would be happy to help on or off-list in any way I can :-)
How many channels of audio are you running? If you're not using all 8
in the switcher, you can use the 8th channel to switch the MIDI, just
wire a MIDI connector to either the DB25 or TRS connector. The middle
pin of the MIDI connector goes to pin 1, and the pins to either side
to 2 and 3. Which pin goes to 2 vs 3 is unimportant, as long as both
the input and output are wired the same.
If you are using all 8, the Programmable Input Selector can be set to
toggle based on the footswitch input, and that can be controlled by
the Contact output on the SW8. This will automatically follow both the
auto-switch and the manual switch from the SW8.
That said, I am not a fan of relying on the auto-switching; loss of
audio is not the only, nor necessarily the most likely failure.
Audible glitching can also be a common failure mode, and you'll need
to manual switch in that situation. I always prefer to have a human in
control of the switching as much as possible.
Another alternative to the Radial is the Whirlwind AB8. It doesn't
have the contact closure output, but at less than half the cost of the
Radial, you could add a MIDI solutions Relay and the PIS and then use
one of the buttons on our MR-6 remote to control those. (One of the
yellow "aux" buttons has an option to allow it to toggle between two
MIDI messages, in which case it would be able to control the Relay and
also provide a red/green LED indicator of whether the main or backup
machine was active.
I also don't know what your timeline is, but we are working on an
integrated solution that will interface directly with our MR-6 and
provide both audio and MIDI switching as well as distribution to both
computers, all in one box. Touch base with me off-list with timeframe,
and we may be able to provide you with an all-in-one solution purpose
designed for QLab systems :-)
Best wishes,
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Leviss
ETCP Certified Entertainment Electrician #1251
DucksEchoSound.com
Home of the Perfect Pickle Mini Chain Hoist Controller
and the MR-6 MIDI Remote, 2011 Live Design Product of the Year
Andy Leviss
> The midi solutions device is good. I have one on a touring show. But if
> you mid data stream, you can have things get stuck.
>
> I've seen midi "panic" devices before. Press a button & it flushes the
> data stream. Basically an everything off command. I just haven't seen one
> in a long time.
The MIDI Solutions PIS can be programmed to do this when it switches
an input on or off. It's about halfway down page 1 of the one page
manual :-)
--Andy
John Taylor
ra byn (robin)
thrift stores locally. Usually costs between $1 to $2.
Fantastic really because the switch alone is probably a $20 switch (if you
had to buy it new).
I bet you can get them on ebay for a song and a dance too...
ra byn
On Tue, April 10, 2012 10:48 pm, John Taylor wrote:
> This is what I use with HOSA 25pin Dsub cables.
>
> Works on Professional Touring shows here in Australia and it switches
> silently. Try it and save a LOT of money. I even use one to switch my AB
> midi stream.
>
>
>
>
ra byn (robin)
> That said, I am not a fan of relying on the auto-switching; loss of
> audio is not the only, nor necessarily the most likely failure.
> Audible glitching can also be a common failure mode, and you'll need
> to manual switch in that situation. I always prefer to have a human in
> control of the switching as much as possible.
For a show, sure but for a museum installation, maybe not.
In more than 2 years using Qlab redundatly I don't think I've had an
audible glitch. The main issues I've had weren't related to the hardware
but software. In the early days I would test my rig by letting my pilot
tone loop for a few days. Doing this hang Qlab & revealed there was a
memory leak. Chris fixed it & I haven't had a problem since.
I cover A/V duties for a local museum & the only person besides me that
knows how anything works is the facilities manager. Even he knows very
little & don't go out of his way to learn anything.
In an institutional / exhibit setting like this, I would have the
computers reset themselves from time to time. At least give the system a
break at night. Either by shutting down & restarting each morning or just
give the staff START & STOP button to manually control it. For example
when there are special events & such that might not want the exhibit on.
Maybe a button to mute all audio. I've been asked to come in & mute audio
before when press is coming thru & shooting an interview in a gallery.
Maybe give them a button that starts the show back at the top. Stuff like
that. Options for the house staff.
I support the idea of a system that can maintain & reset itself without
human intervention. Leaving the "if something goes terribly wrong" stuff
to the person who isn't probably watching the exhibit unless called by
someone (docent, gallery staff, etc...).
Otherwise you'll end up getting called all the time. I've been called to
restart exhibits after a power outage only to leave the building & get
called right back in for another one. After a few times, I spent the time
to set up the PCs & Macs so they would restart when power returned & auto
load to the right place.
So a hybrid of "auto run" with the option of solving any problems that
might come along. A manual override to shift between A / B. I midi flush
device to clear any stuck messages. Then bench test the whole thing & let
it run for a few days.
If possible,
Solid state drives.
A UPS
A SurgeX
A simple (if this happens, do this) document
Let it roll...
ra byn
Jeremy Lee
In the way back machine, I even used a 1/4" tape machine as a MIDI sequencer. Recorded the notes to one track of tape as MIDI and played it back to a sampler. Worked fine...
Jeremy Lee
- A thumb is a terrible speller. Please forgive my trespasses.