Live Streaming GoPro Hero (1/2/3)... via HDMI?

[Freddy Komp]

Helllloooo everyone,


Long time no see :)!

My question is as follows - has anybody achieved (with relatively moderate budget) something like a no-latency Camera Cue input into QLab? Can be SD, if it has to be, but obviously, bigger/better...

My thoughts run along the lines of:

1. Input: GoPro Hero 1/2/3
2. Connection, either
 a) WiFi streaming (by the looks of it only confirmed for GoPro Hero2 ATM)
 b) HDMI
3. Input into Mac
 a) Blackmagic Design... Maybe the UltraStudio Mini Recorder? http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/ultrastudio/models
4. Output to screen
 a) some 3rd party software in full screen mode on the projector screen, to be "shuttered" by a black png in QLab
 b) (ideally) a QLab camera cue?

My questions to the list:

A) Is there a better, trialled way of doing this? Am I overthinking? Low/no Latency is a biggy, and i.e. the AVDC55 I am using has obviously the 4/25th sec Firewire CoDec delay...
B) Has anyone trialled any of the pathway above? Does anyone know of any caveats? i.e., is the HDMI output from the GoPro Copy Protected (how silly would that be)?
C) I am trying to find reliable data on the upcoming GoPro Hero3... while it boasts with "built-in WiFi", it does not say anywhere that streaming is part of the initial package - where it advertises it quite prominently/clearly with the WiFi backpac for the GoPro Hero2...

Interested to hear your thoughts, or having you call me CRAZY ;).


Cheers,

Freddy

[Angus Turner]

If you really want low/no latency you're best off getting a hardware switcher and switch between the camera/QLab laptop. Anything you connect to the computer will have a lot of latency. Extron, Kramer etc make simple easy to use products for this purpose. 
Thanks
Angus Turner
angus...@gmail.com

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[Andy Leviss]

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:54 PM, Freddy Komp <busy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My question is as follows - has anybody achieved (with relatively moderate
> budget) something like a no-latency Camera Cue input into QLab?

--snip--

> 2. Connection, either
> a) WiFi streaming (by the looks of it only confirmed for GoPro Hero2 ATM)

By definition, not only can that not possibly be no latency, but it
won't be consistent. Wifi is a disaster for consistent latency of any
level.

-A

[Freddy Komp]

Hi again,


Thanks, Angus and Andy, your responses are helpful and make sense: Of course I understand the benefits of dedicated external hardware... I guess it's a price question for me at this stage... and the limitations of WiFi are indeed obvious, too... but...

What about HDMI then? Has anyone successfully been able to use a (non-copyright protected) HDMI source via a converter (i.e. to thunderbolt) as a Quartz-able or QLab-native Camera input? And, if so, what was the latency on this? even if there is some (understandably, there has to be some processing), is it low/lower than Firewire conversion?


Cheers,

Freddy

[Angus Turner]

Something like the XE-21H is only around $300 and will add little to no latency to the signal. You'll probably pay around the same for a decent capture interface HDMI or otherwise. The fact is if you're inputting video into a computer and then outputting it, it's going to add a lot of latency no matter how you cut it. Computers just aren't designed to do low latency stuff without a lot of tweaking and hardware/software optimisation. 

I'd stick in hardware land unless you really have to, especially if your budgets small so you don't have the opportunity to fine tune the computer to reduce the latency. 

I haven't done anything with HDMI before, but I'd assume it's probably going to be quicker than a firewire dv capture based solution, once again look at something from Black Magic Design for a cheap(ish) solution.
Thanks
Angus Turner
angus...@gmail.com

[Keith Smith]

On 7 Nov 2012, at 07:00, Freddy Komp wrote:

> and the limitations of WiFi are indeed obvious, too... but...

Successfully using WiFi will depend upon how far the GoPro is from the nearest access point, the shape of the room, and how many people will be there. I have talked about the "jamming" effects of a room full of smart phones before, and I know a few here have used WiFi successfully in the past, but in my tests I haven't been able to reliably get WiFi anything from one end of a room to another once it is full of several hundred people.

> What about HDMI then? Has anyone successfully been able to use a (non-copyright protected) HDMI source via a converter (i.e. to thunderbolt) as a Quartz-able or QLab-native Camera input? And, if so, what was the latency on this? even if there is some (understandably, there has to be some processing), is it low/lower than Firewire conversion?

I have to ask: Why do want the video *in* QLab in the first place? You are well and truly in the realm of video mixers here and as much as I love QLab I've got to say it just isn't a mixer.

I normally treat QLab video out as just another source on a mixer, that way I can key out whatever I want on any of the sources and send the vision mix to the screen(s). This works well for me and the latency is so low that I have never felt the need to add an audio delay in the sound board.


K.

[nizer]

There is a four second delay with the wifi go pro setup via VLC. :-/

[Alexander Taylor (Mailing List)]

I own a Mini Recorder, and have this same issue.  As far as I've researched it (not since December) it was a "known" issue that was supposedly fixed by a firmware update, but it still didn't work for me after the update.  I'll get it out and try it again sometime.  It does work perfectly with SDI in, however.  I have one of their battery converters (HDMI-SDI) and that solves the problem for me, although it is not a long-term solution.

Alexander

On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:59 PM, Sean Coonce <coonc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a similar configuration:

1. GoPro Hero2 > 
2. Mini HDMI to HDMI > 
3. BlackMagic UltraStudio Mini Recorder > 
   
4. Thunderbolt >
5. MacBook Pro: Retina (running Mountain Lion)

Everything is hooked up and I have modified my System Preferences to accept input from "HDMI Video & HDMI Audio" (the default is "SDI Video & SDI Audio") however I am still having issues streaming actual video content from the Hero2 to the MacBook.

My Hero 2 is configured as follows:

• 720p
• 30 frames per second
• FOV (field of vision) - wide

I'm using BlackMagic's "Media Express" software to ingest the incoming feed. It is configured to receive input as follows:

• Project Video Format: HD 720p 60 (fps)
• Capture File Format: Quicktime Uncompressed 8-bit YUV

I have tried hooking up the hardware in a number of different ways (ie: connecting the UltraStudio Recorder to the Mac and to the Hero 2 and powering the Hero2 on; removing the SD card, connecting all of the components and powering the Hero2 on; etc.) yet I cannot get a valid stream from the Hero2 to my MacBook.

If anyone knows the precise settings and steps to capture HDMI output from the GoPro Hero 2 to a Mac using BlackMagic's UltraStudio Mini Recorder, I would be much obliged.

All the best, 

Sean

[Sean Coonce]

Interesting.

So if I understand correctly, you are going from:

1. GoPro HDMI Out > 
2. HDMI to SDI Conversion (Is this a cable that takes mini HDMI and outputs SDI? Can you clarify.) >
3. SDI In to the BlackMagic UltraStudio Recorder > 
4. Thunderbolt to Mac

Are these the steps correct? More importantly, what steps do you take on the GoPro itself to configure it to send its output to the HDMI out? I have tried popping out the SD card, monkeying around in settings, etc. to no avail.

I'm meeting with a video production coworker tomorrow and will follow up with our results. Thanks for the quick response :)

[Alexander Taylor (Mailing List)]

Sorry, I should've clarified.  I don't have a GoPro myself, I'm using a Canon HV-30 as my HDMI source, but from what I've read, the camera doesn't make a difference.  Here's my setup:

Camera (HV-30 in my case) HDMI (Any resolution framerate, doesn't seem to make a bit of difference to the problem)

HDMI ->

Blackmagic Battery HDMI-SDI Converter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857473-REG/Blackmagic_Design_CONVBATT_HS_HDMI_to_SDI_Battery.html)

SDI ->

Blackmagic UltraStudio Mini Recorder SDI In

Thunderbolt ->

MacBook Pro

The interesting thing I've seen is in my camera's settings menu, when I connect it directly via HDMI, the camera thinks and reports it's connected to a DVI, not HDMI device.  This makes me think there's still a bud in the firmware that makes the handshake go bad between the camera and the Mini Recorder.  With the firmware update that "fixed" it, I was able to get a still frame via HDMI, but not a continuous video signal.  I'll get it out and give it some more testing in the morning, and double-check to see if there are any more recent firmware updates.

If you manage to get the HDMI in working, please let me know how you managed it!  I'm not too thrilled to have to spend another $300 to make a $130 device work properly.

Alexander

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[Sam Kusnetz]

Hello folks.

QLab 2 can only communicate with a relatively limited set of cameras and capture devices, and unfortunately the Blackmagic devices you're all discussing are not on the list.

The quick way to tell if a particular device will work with QLab is to open up iChat (or Messages, as it's called in 10.8) or iMovie, and see if the camera is recognized by default. If it is, then it probably will work with QLab. If it is not, then it probably will not work.

Since we are getting so close to releasing QLab 3, I cannot resist mentioning that anyone interested in camera input will be very interested in QLab 3. I'm hesitant to say more since nothing is final until it's final…

Cheerio

Sam

--

Sam Kusnetz

QLab Field Operative

s...@figure53.com

[Chris Eschweiler]

The only difference between DVI and HDMI is the connector. The video signal is the same, so it's not surprising that the camera is sensing "DVI."

Sent from an iGadget

[Alexander Taylor (Mailing List)]

True, but the camera seeing it as DVI instead of HDMI (as it normally reads) makes me think the handshake is part of the issue. In any case, I just re-tested with the latest firmware on the Mini Recorder, and it's working for the moment at least. I haven't tried any quartz composer patching to get it into QLab, but it works in Media Express and QuickTime 7 Pro, at least. I'm running the camera in 1080i for this test.

If there are any specific things you'd like me to try, let me know.

Alexander

[Paul Gotch]

On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 02:43:01PM -0400, Alexander Taylor (Mailing List) wrote:

> True, but the camera seeing it as DVI instead of HDMI (as it normally
> reads) makes me think the handshake is part of the issue.

This is almost certainly some kind of EDID issue. DVI and HDMI are
electrically compatible but the decision about exactly what is present
on the datalines is based on the EDID information.

I think things say HDMI if the correct combination of things are
supported in the EDID information for it to conform to the HDMI
specification, if not then it will detect DVI instead.

-p
--
Paul Gotch
--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sean Coonce]

We just got this working and I will outline the steps we took to get HDMI output from the GoPro Hero2 to my MacBook Pro: Retina (via the UltraStudio Mini Recorder) below:

1. Connect Devices: Make sure your devices are connected in the following order:
• Mac Book --> Thunderbolt --> UltraStudio MiniRecorder
• UltraStudio MiniRecorder --> HDMI --> GoPro Hero2
2. Power GoPro: Turn the Hero2 'on' and assert that it is shooting video in 720p at 60fps. I don't think it matters what you select here, just make sure that it matches your `Capture File Format` in Media Express.
3. Configure Media Express: Open `BlackMagic Media Express` and open the preferences pane:
• Ensure that `Project Video Format` is set to: "HD 720p 59.94".
• Ensure that `Capture File Format` is set to: "QuickTime Uncompressed 8-bit YUV".
4. Install Apple ProRes Codecs: This is the most important step as none of this will work unless you install the ProRes codecs.
• You can get the codecs from: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1396
• That said, you will unfortunately need to buy an "Apple Pro" product (either FinalCut Pro, Apple Compressor or Apple Motion) to be able to install the codecs. My advice is to download a demo version of FinalCut Pro, install the codecs, then uninstall FinalCut Pro.
5. Modify System Preferences: Open up your System Preferences and click on the "BlackMagic Design" icon (should be down at the bottom). Set your `input` to "HDMI Video & HDMI Audio".
6. Re-Open BlackMagic Media Express: With the hardware connected and the proper codecs installed, you should now be able to click the "Log and Capture" tab and see live video output from the GoPro. You can record from there.

Apologies if this is a little off topic for the QLab group, I just wanted to let everyone know that getting HD content off of your GoPro via HDMI out is possible using the UltraStudio Mini Recorder.

[Joan Laporta]

Sean, if I understand well, you say that it's possible work in streaming with GoPro Hero2 and MacBook without latency, with your configuration??

[bertrand niquel]

Hi Sean, 

Was wondering what version of the GP Hero2 firmware you were using and also what version of BMD Desktop Video?

Would be really helpful,

thanks,

bertrand.

[Mathias Seyfert]

I can confirm:

- iMac 27" mac os 10 9 4
- no extra codecs
- BMD software July 2014
- gopro firmwares 2013 and 2014
- two UltraStudio mini recorder each via thunderbolt at the same time
- HERO 2 with 720-60  -->  Wirecast: 720 59,94
- HERO 3+ BE with 1080-60  --> Wirecast: 1080i 59,94
- Wirecast for youtube (FREE)
works for me.

(Most important: The free Wirecast version accepts MiniRecorder_1 and MiniRecorder_2 at the same time)

PS: one gopro was connected via a wireless HDMI transmitter (approx. 20 meters) --> name: "nyrius aries pro"
transmitter powered by USB battery.
PPS: I used cheap HDMI cables, cable length max. 1 meter, cheap (!?) thunderbolt cables...
 

[Mathias Seyfert]

mobile setup with gopro with a range of up to 40 meters

[Steven Devino]

What was your latency

Steve Devino

Mobile

On Aug 5, 2014, at 9:58 AM, Mathias Seyfert <mathias...@gmail.com> wrote:

mobile setup with gopro with a range of up to 40 meters

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<20140805_185241.jpg>

[Andy FEBON]

Do you mean as below?

GoPro hdmi output ->  hdmi grabber card ->  MAC OSX ->  Google hangouts live stream

maybe you can see the video demo


Gopro hero4 is as a uvc webcam for google hangouts / skype use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTwa-hfLyc




Freddy Komp於 2012年11月7日星期三 UTC+8下午12時54分40秒寫道：