Group Fade QLab 2?

[ja...@stevens.edu]

Here's the way my design is setup: I have a master Group Cue that contains a list of about 40 songs. I want to reference this master list about 5 times throughout the entire show, however, I want to make sure that each time I call the group, it starts on a random song to ensure that the cue doesn't start at a weird place in the song. So I have all the master levels of each song set to 0. After it's called for the first time, i have a fade of the entire group down to ~-58dB. However, the next time I reference the group, all of the levels have reset to 0. So instead of fading back up to 0, it fades up to ~+58dB. Why is this happening and how can I fix it?

Thank you!

Jason

[Daniel Perelstein]

I'm pretty sure that a fade cue operates only on items currently loaded into memory.

I'm sure there are many ways of fixing it if you clarify exactly what you are trying to achieve (i.e. there is probably another way to structure things to achieve what you're looking for).

Dan

Daniel Perelstein                 

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Musical Direction | Sound Design | Composition | Multi-Instrumentalist
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[ja...@stevens.edu]

Basically, I want to have a "master" list of ~40 songs that I can call to at various points throughout the show. I want the track randomly selected to start at a silent level (-58.7 dB since group cues can't handle absolute fades), fade the song in, if the song finishes continue to the next song at full volume, and when I call the next cue, fade out the song and prepare the next random song to be called when the next intermission comes up. If you need more clarification please let me know.

Thanks,

Jason

[Christopher Ashworth]

Hi Jason,

Dan is correct that the audio level changes are maintained only while the cues are loaded. If a cue is stopped/unloaded and reloaded, the starting levels are reset to the values specified in the inspector.

I'm a bit confused about the goal, as I'm reading your second description to be more or less opposite to the first, but perhaps loading all the cues simultaneously and knowing this behavior will help construct what you're looking for?

On Nov 4, 2013, at 8:33 PM, ja...@stevens.edu wrote:

Basically, I want to have a "master" list of ~40 songs that I can call to at various points throughout the show. I want the track randomly selected to start at a silent level (-58.7 dB since group cues can't handle absolute fades), fade the song in, if the song finishes continue to the next song at full volume, and when I call the next cue, fade out the song and prepare the next random song to be called when the next intermission comes up. If you need more clarification please let me know.

Thanks,

Jason

On Sunday, November 3, 2013 5:56:45 PM UTC-5, Dan Perelstein wrote:

I'm pretty sure that a fade cue operates only on items currently loaded into memory.

I'm sure there are many ways of fixing it if you clarify exactly what you are trying to achieve (i.e. there is probably another way to structure things to achieve what you're looking for).

Dan

Daniel Perelstein         

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 5:29 PM, <ja...@stevens.edu> wrote:

Here's the way my design is setup: I have a master Group Cue that contains a list of about 40 songs. I want to reference this master list about 5 times throughout the entire show, however, I want to make sure that each time I call the group, it starts on a random song to ensure that the cue doesn't start at a weird place in the song. So I have all the master levels of each song set to 0. After it's called for the first time, i have a fade of the entire group down to ~-58dB. However, the next time I reference the group, all of the levels have reset to 0. So instead of fading back up to 0, it fades up to ~+58dB. Why is this happening and how can I fix it?

Thank you!

Jason

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[ja...@stevens.edu]

Okay well keeping the cue loaded isn't a problem. But how do I ensure that everytime I call the group it starts at the beginning of the next track as opposed to pausing it after the previous fade?

[Christopher Ashworth]

On Nov 4, 2013, at 9:34 PM, ja...@stevens.edu wrote:

> Okay well keeping the cue loaded isn't a problem. But how do I ensure that everytime I call the group it starts at the beginning of the next track as opposed to pausing it after the previous fade?

I think I'm losing track of the exact behavior you need. If you stop the group, and start a random cue in it next time, it will of course start at the top of one of the cues.

You just need to make sure the starting volumes are what you want in that case.

-C

[ja...@stevens.edu]

Let me try explaining this differently.

I want a fade in and out every time i call the group. I also want to start at the top of a new song within the group every time the group is called, as well as both fades.

Does that make anymore sense?

[Christopher Ashworth]

Thanks, that helps.

You mention playing "random" songs. Do you truly want them random, or do you just mean that you won't know how far down the playlist you'll get each time before you fade out again?

-C

[ja...@stevens.edu]

It doesn't necessarily have to be "random" per say, I just want to ensure that each time the group is called it starts right at the beginning of a song to eliminate the possibility of starting in awkward spots.

[Rich Walsh]

You face a number of hurdles trying to achieve this. If I understand the logic correctly, what you are looking for is this (repeated 5 times):

1. Select a random song from your "master Group Cue"
2. Play it
3. Fade it in
4. If necessary, have it follow on to one or more random songs, played at level (ie: not faded in)
5. On cue, fade out whatever is playing

In steps 1. and 4. you presumably have to solve an issue that QLab's built-in randomiser does not help with:

• Don't attempt to play the last track again, or indeed any track that has been played before

Steps 3. & 4. create a difficult piece of logic, ie:

• If the song is the first song played on this trigger, it needs to fade in; if it is not it does not need to fade in – this is the crux of your current problem

The way QLab calculates the level of a cue is by keeping track of the cumulative changes to that level since it was loaded; as soon as it is unloaded, its level is reset to that plotted in the original cue. Playing a random cue from a group does not load any others, so you must currently have all the cues linked together as a sequence with a random starting point chosen.

There is a modification to your current implementation that might work: have each Audio Cue follow-on to a Load Cue to reload it; that way the relative fades should still affect it. However, it wouldn't be hard to create a scenario where this breaks…

Here is how I would do it (except I wouldn't because "random" ≠ "design", so if it doesn't matter what song you hear when, what possible purpose is the song serving to the storytelling?):

1. You'll need two Group Cues in a separate cuelist, call them "1" and "2" – both set to fire first child and go to next cue
2. You'll need two Script Cues, call them "A" and "B"
3. When you want to call a randomised sequence, use a Start Cue to trigger "A"
4. Inside "1" you have each song inside a subgroup (also set to fire first child and go to next cue) that includes a Start Cue calling "B" that auto-follows from that song, followed by two Disarm Cues to disarm the subgroups in "1" & "2" that contain that particular song; also include a fade-in for the song, either using the integrated fade or a Fade Cue (the latter will make the auto-follow tricky though…)
5. Inside "2" you replicate the same setup (including the Disarm Cues), but this time without any fade-ins
6. When you want to fade out, fade the whole cuelist without stopping it – and also disarm "B" so that whichever song is currently playing completes and disarms itself without starting another song
7. Wait a bit and rearm "B"; maybe build that into starting "A"
8. You'll need a reset at the top of the show to re-arm everything…

Script "A" chooses some cue of "1" that is armed and plays it. Script "B" does the same thing for "2". The syntax will be something like:

tell front workspace to start some item of ((cues of cue "1" whose armed is true) as list)

I can't see a way of doing it without scripting, I'm afraid – other than not attempting to be random…

Oh, and it also doesn't deal with any loading that might be needed to avoid gaps! Quite a palaver for some "intermission" music.

Rich

[ja...@stevens.edu]

Well that's quite complicated. Thank you for your feedback, it's much appreciated! I'll try to implement it.

[Robert Kaplowitz]

I think this is getting far more complicated than you need it to be.

It sounds to me like the least important aspect is "random" as long as each time you play a cue, it's a different group of songs.

Is that correct?

[ja...@stevens.edu]

That's correct. Basically all I want to ensure is that it starts at the beginning of a new song, which could be the next song in the group.

[Daniel Perelstein]

How many intermissions do you have? Both due to the nature of your problems, and due to the point that Rich makes that you might perhaps want to think about designing for instance what the audience hears going from each scene into intermission instead of having it be random, you might make a separate cuelist for each intermission. 

Say you have two intermissions, make two separate cue lists with songs set to fire one after another in the order you'd like. The first one in each list can have a fade up written into it, as you'd like. Trigger the cue list with a start cue when ready, and trigger the cue list with a fade out when you're done, which will fade out whatever song is currently playing. 

This method also ensures you never start in the middle of a song. 

Dan

[Robert Kaplowitz]

Well, that seems simpler.

If you don't know how many intermissions you'll have, then there's a little complication, but if you do...

For each intermission, just make a new Group cue.  Put as many songs into that group as you need to last the length of the intermission.  Start the first tune at a low level, and include a fade cue with a 0 postwait; have all the other cues at full, set your post-waits (after the first absolute fade) to be the right length to allow for good "mix"  music overlap.

Just put different tunes into each intermission group.  At the end of the intermissions, your next cue is a (relative) fade that fades out the (preceding) intermission cue.  That's your basic cue lab programming.

If you don't know how many intermissions are going to occur, you could make a secondary list.  On that list, make all the groups as above.  Then put them into one larger (enclosing) group, and make that enclosing group's behavior a "fire random."  Then, in your main list, your intermissions are "start" cues to the second list, and your out-of-intermissions are a fade cue to that larger group cue.  The only problem with this is, as has been mentioned, is QLab's "fire random" option doesn't remember what's been fired and what  hasn't, so you might get unlucky.

And, of course, if random doesn't matter, but you don't know how many intermission cues you'll have, you could just put that series of groups into a second list, and then, as you go, simply switch lists and fire, or, as you build your show, build start cues in your main list targeting the next cue down....