Qlab CL5 python control and DVS

[Olivier Goliard]

I just saw the Yamaha templates to control CL series from Qlab using scripts. It ask for a fixed IP. I assume the RJ45 must be plugged on the network port on the CL ?
I read somewhere the DVS could be used on the same network...but how ? DVS should be HDCP and plugged on the Dante port...
I there someone who tried already ?

Thanks folks for thoughts or answers !

[Corbin White]

For those scripts you need a fixed console IP, using network discovery is possible, but that's a far more complex implementation. It can exist on the same network as Dante, but it must be plugged into the network port, not the Dante port. Dante by default uses APIPA, not DHCP. So whatever you use on the network port must match the Dante IP scheme. You can use a separate NIC, but you'll need to make sure that it's set to the top of the priority order in your network settings, because those scripts don't allow you to choose which network interface to use.

Best,

Corbin

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[Rich Walsh]

It is not possible to bridge the control and Dante networks on a QL1: it won't let you set the subnet masks to make this work. I suspect the same is true of the CL5. You need a fixed IP on the control side to use QL Editor (and CL Editor?), so realistically you will always need 2 NICs in your computer if you want to control a QL/CL and use Dante. I had quite a heated argument with Yamaha about this as we proved that their suggested workaround was not allowed by the QL1 we had in front of us.

Rich

[Corbin White]

I don’t have extensive experience with the CL/QL series, so that may be true. I also normally separate those networks anyway, but I’m pretty sure I’ve had them on the same network on a TF before, and there’s nothing theoretically wrong with it, so I made an assumption there. 

The editors use a different control protocol than the scripts. You shouldn’t need a static IP on the controller, but keeping everything static will make it much easier and reliable. You just need to make sure Python uses the right interface. On a Mac that means setting the service order properly.

-Corbin

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[John Huntington]

I unfortunately don't have time to test it at the moment but it is possible (as i was just last week discussing with Sam K) in Apple (and Windows) to assign two IP addresses to the same interface.  

I'm not sure if you can leave one link local/autoIP for Dante and one fixed but it would be an interesting experiment.

John

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020 at 8:00:27 PM UTC-5, Corbin White wrote:

On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 'Rich Walsh' via QLab <ql...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

It is not possible to bridge the control and Dante networks on a QL1: it won't let you set the subnet masks to make this work. I suspect the same is true of the CL5. You need a fixed IP on the control side to use QL Editor (and CL Editor?), so realistically you will always need 2 NICs in your computer if you want to control a QL/CL and use Dante. I had quite a heated argument with Yamaha about this as we proved that their suggested workaround was not allowed by the QL1 we had in front of us.

Rich

On 28 Jan 2020, at 21:58, Corbin White <white....@gmail.com> wrote:

For those scripts you need a fixed console IP, using network discovery is possible, but that's a far more complex implementation. It can exist on the same network as Dante, but it must be plugged into the network port, not the Dante port. Dante by default uses APIPA, not DHCP. So whatever you use on the network port must match the Dante IP scheme. You can use a separate NIC, but you'll need to make sure that it's set to the top of the priority order in your network settings, because those scripts don't allow you to choose which network interface to use.

Best,

Corbin

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 4:20 PM Olivier Goliard <olivie...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just saw the Yamaha templates to control CL series from Qlab using scripts. It ask for a fixed IP. I assume the RJ45 must be plugged on the network port on the CL ?
I read somewhere the DVS could be used on the same network...but how ? DVS should be HDCP and plugged on the Dante port...
I there someone who tried already ?

Thanks folks for thoughts or answers !

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[M K]

Yes I think this should work - our system PC talks to our Yamaha MRX7 control and the Dante network via one NIC that has a couple of different network addresses assigned to it.  We are not running audio from the PC, it's just so we can use Dante Controller to edit Dante patch etc.  

Mike

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[Olivier Goliard]

All this is interesting, I don't have much time accessing the venue CL5 for testing things, an my network skills are quite low, all our Dante network is passing threw a Yamaha SWP1-8 switch, specially managed for Dante use. I don't know if Just plug my Mac into the switch can let me use both DVS and Qlab control in the same time without getting in the switch Lan management thing... As I understand what you say, it's not so simple....So need more time testing or more practical infos.

But thank you, keep it on !! I follow the thread with attention.

[Rich Walsh]

No: because control and Dante are two separate holes on the CL5, so unless you connect the control hole to something then no control.

They literally have different network chips because the Dante chip does not have the network headroom to also handle the console's control bandwidth (that, direct from Audinate's Director of Application Engineering). Next time I have a console in front of me I will have another go at getting both holes connected to the same switch and this time try using two IP addresses on my Mac to talk to both of them.

Rich

[Olivier Goliard]

Make sense.

[Corbin White]

I just double checked some Wireshark captures from about a month ago, and you can absolutely have control and Dante on the same network with the CL series. If you can assign multiple IPs to a single NIC you can use it for both DVS and those scripts, they implement the same protocol as R-Remote, so there really should be no problem mixing that traffic with Dante.

Corbin

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[Olivier Goliard]

Well give try today, but nothing works well... I think my network knowledge is too low.

So to get back to basics, how should I configure my network to control a CL5 ? 

First basic setup, macbook to CL network slot, static IP 192.168.0.x  no result... Any tips ?

Second extended setup = Macbook in Yamaha dante configured switch (swp1-8). Mac network in DHCP give me an IP 169.254.183.230 (255.255.0.0)... Can't figure out how to send th python script correctly on the appropriate network...

Thanks for your help.

[Corbin White]

You're going to want to use a static addressing scheme. 192.168.0.x with a subnet of 255.255.255.0 should work fine, and plugging directly into the network port is also okay.

First thing you might check is your service order. Python is going to use whichever network interface is the first, so if that's your wireless interface, it's going to send the packets over WiFi. So you want whatever interface you're using to be the first in the service order. You can easily change this in your network preferences.

If that checks out, and you're still having problems, then another thing you can do to troubleshoot is ping the console's IP in the terminal, this will tell you whether or not your computer and console are actually talking to each other over the network. Pinging is easy. If you're console's IP is 192.168.0.10, then you just open the terminal utility and type: "ping 192.168.0.10"

Along those lines you can also try running the script in the terminal, and altering the script with the following line after the sendall() function:

print(s.recv(1500))

This line prints the console's response to a command. If nothing prints, you have no connection, or it might print an error statement.

Hope some of that helps.

Best

-Corbin

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[Olivier Goliard]

Works fine ! Thanks, it was quite simple.

Next is to plug into the Dante switch...

[Rich Walsh]

I spent a long time playing with a QL5 today and found only one way to be able to use the fixed IP address QL Editor (and these python scripts) needs on the same NIC as DVS: pick an arbitrary IP address in the link-local range and use that for "mixer control". I wonder how you got it to work? This solution felt a little flaky, so I'll stick to having two NICs and two (V)LANs I think.

I was trying to achieve this without a DHCP server as a) I didn't have one, b) I don't generally have one and c) an extra NIC dongle and a VLAN is a lot less faff. I can see in principle how a DHCP server might have helped to force Dante to work in an address range compatible with the fixed IP for "mixer control".

The QL consoles will not allow you to set anything other than a static IP for "mixer control", so you have to also set a static IP on the Mac's NIC to be able to use QL Editor. That breaks DVS as the QL5 won't let you set a fixed IP for Dante – I couldn't even get that to work by doing it from Dante Controller. It should have worked, but flatly refused to. I wouldn't want to deploy a system that refused to work when all the settings looked like it should…

If, instead, you add another IP address to the NIC there's no way of choosing which address to use in DVS: only the NIC – so that doesn't help either.

I did make a bit more sense of the confusing messages you get about subnets for "mixer control" and "device control" – the latter actually has nothing to do with Dante per se, and is for using the Dante primary port to control devices like Shure receivers.

I am assuming that the CL consoles behave the same way; maybe they don't? My opinion that you can't use QL Editor and DVS at the same time on a QL console reliably without two NICs and two networks is unchanged.

Rich