Re: [QLab] QLab & USB Output Patches

[Brendan Aanes]

Do you have any patch issues outside of the computer sleeping?

I'd recommend strongly that you not let your show computer sleep, especially not with Qlab open. If you go to Apple -> System Preferences -> Energy Manager, you can set the computer to stay awake, and also while you're at it uncheck "put hard disks to sleep," as that setting can make cues hiccup a bit when they fire.

That said, usually Qlab is pretty good about restoring its patch when audio devices connect and disconnect. So it should be able to do this, even if it isn't a good idea. Though, some audio devices don't play nicely with the way they identify themselves to Mac OS, it's possible the Alpha is one of them and so Qlab isn't getting told that the same device is plugged in even though it is.

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:36 PM, <ddu...@walnuthillarts.org> wrote:

This is my first foray into a technical group like this, so bear with me.  And I have done some searching to see if this issue has been raised before and I don't see anything on this or any other forum.  And audio is not my area of expertise - I'm a TD by trade.

And those are all the disclaimers I have.

Now to the issue:  I have a brand new Macbook Pro (10.8) running the latest free QLab for sound cues in a straight play and a brand new Lexicon Alpha.  I got the Alpha for the sole purpose of sending signal out to an analog mixer through something better than the 1/8" headphone jack (split into RCA, converted to 1/4" and finally into the mixer's stereo pair.)  For two shows now, so two new QLab workspace files created on the new Mac, anytime the computer is put to sleep and then wakes up, both QLab's general pref's and the workspace (show) specific pref's forget the output patch to the Alpha and red X's appear next to each cue in the cue list.  And for the first time, just recently, the Mac itself lost it's patch to the Alpha in System Preferences/Sound.  Every combination of order for everything has been tried - the order of waking up the computer vs. unplugging and replugging the Alpha's USB, closing the QLab show file before sleeping the computer vs. waking it then reopening the file, quitting QLab entirely before sleeping the computer vs. waking it then restarting the app - and QLab just won't keep the patch.  Then there's the issue of trying to re-patch.  Again, every sequence option between quitting and restarting the app vs. closing and re-opening the workspace vs. patching in general pref's and workspace pref's has been tried.  (And yes, I'm clicking <Done> after patching in the workspace pref's.) And there is no rhyme nor reason to how the show file gets happy again and decides to send sound out via USB to the Alpha and on to the mixer.

What am I missing?  Is it about QLab and patching?  QLab and USB?  Free QLab?  Something about the Alpha maybe.  Is it something really, really, dirt simple?  It's o.k. to tell me.  I can take it.  I'm just a wood butcher out of the scene shop trying to make the new sound equipment work in the middle of tech. week.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond.

Dave Durbin

Technical Director

Walnut Hill School for the Arts

Natick, MA

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[Sam Kusnetz]

Hi Dave

I'm not familiar with the Lexicon Alpha, but a similar problem exists with the MOTU Ultralight and 828mk3, and pertains to a compatibility problem between the device drivers and Mac OS 10.8. The fault lies in the device driver, so until MOTU fixes is there's nothing to be done.

It's possible that the drivers for the Alpha suffer from the same problem, but I don't know for sure. Have you confirmed that the drivers are up to date and compatible with 10.8?

If you can borrow or rent another audio interface, try testing to see if QLab loses its connection to that other device as well. If not, then probably the problem is directly related to the Alpha.

Let us know what you discover!

Cheerio,

Sam

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Sam Kusnetz

QLab Field Operative

s...@figure53.com

[Rabyn]

I strongly suggest never letting your show computer EVER go to sleep. There are no guarantees that the drivers reconnect when the computer wakes up. Either leave it on or shut it down. If you still have issues after breaking that habit, let us know. In that case I would suggest returning the audio device and get something else. While I commend shooting for better audio than the headphone output, some sound I'd better than no sound at all. I've used the headphone At some point on every Mac I've ever had for Qlab purposes and there was nothing wrong with it. Great for rehearsals and low budget shows. The same can not be said for your average PC laptop headphone output. Let us know how it goes.

ra byn (robin)

[ddu...@walnuthillarts.org]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

There is no Mac driver for the Lexicon Alpha as it is already compliant with the OS and Mac hardware.  Once the computer is awake and output to the Alpha has been re-established, the connection has never been lost.  I also have a Presonus Firewire Mobile that I'll be using to talk between the computer and a different digital mixer, so maybe testing the ability of that patch in QLab to stay through a sleep/wake cycle will rule out or in the hardware vs. the software.  As for never putting the computer to sleep, it's not really practical for this computer in this setting.  The laptop is used for other audio applications, e.g., prep'ing files for the next show before the current show has closed, including going home with the designer at night.  Also, it's a security concern in a multi-use, open facility to have a shiny new laptop sitting on the FOH desk all day if it's not being used.  Perhaps a shutdown instead of sleeping would be better - I'll try that after tech. rehearsal today.

I've never been unable to re-patch the USB output, so it's partly a convenience thing, partly a piece-of-mind-that-it-will-work thing to not have to worry about it, especially when there are high school students running the show and, ideally, firing up the equipment and doing soundcheck each night.

Dave

[raymond soly]

Seems to me there is some confusion about the sleep mode…..other replies were specifically addressing a possible sleep issue if a Qlab space is left open while putting the computer to sleep…..from the wiki : http://wiki.figure53.com/QLab+Tested+System-Configurations under mac system settings…..although on my macbook pros with either madi or motu 896hd and 10.8.2 , putting Qlab 's comp to sleep (closing the lid)only  interrupts audio,  awaking it resumes audio from Qlab where it paused….

Possible fixes……perhaps you have already done this…..once you have selected your new workspace prefs and selected your audio device, clicked "done" and assigned  your patch, make sure you save this new workspace (renaming it) normally this action should preserve your patch and audio device ……when you're ready to close down your mac,  save your workspace again (just to be sure) and quit Qlab in the normal fashion…barring any problem this should all be good after a restart of the application or a mac reboot and Qlab restart….Also, the alpha is not a newer device  it is actually quite ancient in computer terms, it was made for 10.2.8 and G4 macs/ 32 bit systems so I would not be surprised if it just couldn't keep up with 10.8 also could be shaky mac drivers even though it should be "compliant" with macs ……….another thing that comes to mind is if you are using 10.8 you should upgrade to 10.8.2 as this contains several audio specific fixes for mountain lion…….also a long shot, have you tried powering from a different USB port on your mac??

hope this helps

RayS

[ddu...@walnuthillarts.org]

Ray - 

Fair point on sleeping the computer; I think there were times when the show file was being closed but QLab the app. was still left open.  We had tried making the patch in general and workspace pref's and then saving the file, but we didn't try saving the show under a new name.  I'll try that.  The Mac is running 10.8.2, so those audio fixes should be in place.   Something else that may help (though it still doesn't answer the question as to why in the first place) is that there is some software that came with the Alpha - a Lexicon plugin and Cubase LE 6 .  The instructions say to install Cubase first, then the plugins, but I'm having issues with activating the Cubase license.  Once I get it going I'll see if simply having the software properly installed makes a difference.  (I wasn't going to worry about it originally because I don't see a need to use such complex studio software for cue building and playback in a theatre setting.)  If that doesn't work I'm going to try having Cubase running behind QLab to see if that keeps the patching active through a sleep/shutdown - wake/start cycle.  It's not ideal, but as long as Cubase doesn't hijack and hold onto the Alpha for itself, maybe the problem in QLab goes away.  Finally, it seems to make no difference which of the laptops two USB ports we plug the Alpha into.  

Thanks for the input.  Much appreciated.

Dave Durbin

Technical Director

Walnut Hill School for the Arts

[raymond soly]

Dave, sorry the suggested "fixes" did not help,

Saving under a new name is not a necessity, more of a precaution, old habits die hard……

Have you tried bundling a Qlab space and opening that one ? does it keep its patch? have you tried using the built in output and see what that gives you in terms of stability and consistence ? is the patch affected by sleep and wake cycles in either cases ?…..have you also tried with a different interface (once you've tested with the built in)? 

interfaces with known Qlab stability: http://wiki.figure53.com/QLab+Tested+Hardware…… ….If you are only looking at a usb 2 out product have a look at this discussion on psw.http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,1735.0.html 

Hope that helps

Ray

[ra byn taylor]

There are no guarantees when it comes to drivers reestablishing connections with hardware after the host computer goes to sleep / closing the lid / etc...

Maybe it can reconnect & maybe it can't. 

Best to restart if you want to know it will work everytime. 

When I plug a Presonus Firebox in while Qlab is open, the audio will reconnect but midi doesn't. In order to get midi to work, I have to restart Qlab.

If such problems are all created by letting a computer go to sleep, a shutdown & restart is a simple solution. Also quick once we get into SSD OS drives.

ra byn

[raymond soly]

Like I stated before, and YMMV

in my tests with my 3 mac book pros (early and late 2008) under mountain lion 10.8.2……waking an active qlab session resumes right where it was paused during sleep mode on all my firewire and usb interfaces as well as the built in output…..I do lose the ip midi though which I have to repatch…..during show setups and rehearsal I use a screen saver and never put the comps to sleep anyways……

Ray