Audio interface questions

[Qlab Newbie]

I am very new to sound design so please bear with me as I don't know all the terminology.

I have had the pleasure working with qlab v. 2 for both audio and video the past two years and am ready to upgrade to v. 3. I work for a small 55 seat theatre on a shoestring budget. We have an old Beringher sound mixer that we use for almost every production but we also have a Yamaha mixer we use when we produce musicals. Both only offer stereo outputs.

The Beringher has to be plugged into a home receiver in order to deliver sound output to our old speakers. We have 2 onstage and two behind the audience.

With the Yamaha we can bypass the home theater receiver and plug the speakers directly into the Yamaha. However, with that configuration we can only use two speakers, and those two speakers are different than the four we currently use as they have a speakon? connection.

What I would like to do is purchase an audio interface that would allow us the ability to provide between 2 - 4 speakers for music / ambience for productions, with 1 - 2 outputs for special sounds (car horns, radios, etc) that can be placed anywhere on the stage, and 2 outputs for front of house at Pre-show and Intermission.

After reading through multiple threads I think the Focusrite Sapphire pro 40 will do what I want although I know there are those who suggest higher end equipment. we can't afford more than $500.

Here is where I get confused. With the Focusrite can I take the mixer(s) out of the equation with the speakers I have or
do I still have to use a mixer? The 4 speakers we normally use are bare wire. The two we use with the Yamaha have the twist connection like I mentioned.

It would be nice to be able to dream that in our small space we can somehow accomplish sending specific sounds to different channels as opposed to having each sound come out of all speakers.

The other caveat of course is the video component. When we run video and sound both through qlab we use the built-in output plugged into the sound mixer and a th2go plugged into the thunderbolt (or a dvi-thunderbolt adapter if using only one projector). If we use the focusrite for sound and plug that in to the thunderbolt port how would I be able to do video in the future?

If anyone can help to clarify exactly what equipment we need and how exactly this would all hook together the noob would appreciate it. We have a MacBook Pro.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Sam Kusnetz]

Qlab Newbie

June 7, 2015 at 12:59 PM

I am very new to sound design so please bear with me as I don't know all the terminology.

Hello!

Not to worry. This group is for beginners and experts alike.

After reading through multiple threads I think the Focusrite Sapphire pro 40 will do what I want although I know there are those who suggest higher end equipment. we can't afford more than $500.

I can personally vouch for this interface; I own two of them which I use in a dual-Mac mini system and they have been solid performers. At the low end of the price spectrum, I believe they give you the most for your money.

Here is where I get confused. With the Focusrite can I take the mixer(s) out of the equation with the speakers I have or do I still have to use a mixer? The 4 speakers we normally use are bare wire. The two we use with the Yamaha have the twist connection like I mentioned.

There is one piece of the sound signal path that I want to insert into your thinking that you haven't mentioned much: the amplifier. Your home theater receiver contains an amplifier which is driving the two speakers you plug into it. When you use your Yamaha mixer and plug straight into the speakers, that's because there's an amplifier built into the Yamaha mixer, so it's also a two-in-one.

In any event, the essential thing to realize is that for each speaker that you want independent control over, you'll need one channel of output from QLab, and one channel of amplification to drive that speaker.

If you don't need to use any other sources of audio besides QLab, you could easily cut the mixer out of the equation, but you'll still need amplification for your speakers. If you bought another home theater receiver like the one you already have, you could do this:

QLab computer > FireWire cable > Focusrite > four TRS cables > two home stereo amps > four bare end speaker wires > four speakers.

And that would work fine, assuming the home stereos provide enough (and not too much) power for your speakers.

Eventually, I recommend moving towards professional amplifiers, which sound better, don't have a bunch of buttons you might hit by mistake, and can handle a larger variety of speakers safely. Plus, you can move to using speaker cable with NL4 connectors (aka Speakon) which is better because the connectors lock in place and the cables themselves are tougher and less likely to be damaged. The Crown XLS series are relatively inexpensive and as long as you don't block airflow to them, they'll treat you right.

The other caveat of course is the video component. When we run video and sound both through qlab we use the built-in output plugged into the sound mixer and a th2go plugged into the thunderbolt (or a dvi-thunderbolt adapter if using only one projector). If we use the focusrite for sound and plug that in to the thunderbolt port how would I be able to do video in the future?

What kind of Mac are you using? I'm guessing from your explanation that it has only one Thunderbolt port. Does it also have an HDMI output? If so, you can use that to connect to your TripleHead2Go instead.

You could also opt for a USB audio interface instead of the Saffire. Roland's Octa Capture has slightly fewer features than the Saffire, but it's also very reliable and well made, and uses USB instead of FireWire.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask follow up questions!

Sam

--
Sam Kusnetz | Figure 53 Field Operative
s...@figure53.com

[Tom Hafner]

Hi,

On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 6:59:40 PM UTC+2, Qlab Newbie wrote:

I am very new to sound design so please bear with me as I don't know all the terminology.

I got thrown into it 1.5 years ago. Don't bother, you learn with experience. I don't know everything, but I'll try to explain from my gained experience.

 

[...]

After reading through multiple threads I think the Focusrite Sapphire pro 40 will do what I want although I know there are those who suggest higher end equipment. we can't afford more than $500.

I think it's a great audio interface. I chose last year to get a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. Did not want to spend too much money, but also wanted to have some flexibility, so far it's paying off.

Here is where I get confused. With the Focusrite can I take the mixer(s) out of the equation with the speakers I have or
do I still have to use a mixer? The 4 speakers we normally use are bare wire. The two we use with the Yamaha have the twist connection like I mentioned.

Depends on your speakers. Do you have active speakers (also called class d speakers) you can directly connect the out to the speaker. If you have passive speakers you can connect the outs to the amp. Look for the mixed signal out cable on your mixer. 

I usually connect my out from the audio interface to inputs of the mixer. Works well with two main speakers OP and PS. Check your mixer if you have an AUX bus. This would be the way to run signals to another speaker/speaker pair.

In the end it depends on what you have and what you want to do. You don't need to use the mixer, you can use the mixer. It's up to you. The important part is the amplifier for the speakers.

 

The other caveat of course is the video component. When we run video and sound both through qlab we use the built-in output plugged into the sound mixer and a th2go plugged into the thunderbolt (or a dvi-thunderbolt adapter if using only one projector). If we use the focusrite for sound and plug that in to the thunderbolt port how would I be able to do video in the future?

Sounds like you're using a macMini or a Macbook Air with only one thunderbolt port? Check the technical specification of that mac and what you want to connect.

cheers, Tom

[Qlab Newbie]

Hi,

Thank you for your time. I will be at the theatre on Wednesday and can provide more tech specs that will help you help me more. Lol. Yes, I seem to recall the reason for the home theater receiver was because there was no amp in the Beringer and there is in the Yamaha.

I believe the two big speakers we use for our musicals that have the NL4 connection are Mackie 300. I seem to recall being told that I couldn't plug both the Mackie speakers and the two older speakers in at the same team due to balanced vs unbalanced? The old speakers have a 1/4 connection on the end that would have gone into the Yamaha. If I use the older receiver I take the 1/4 off and plug the wires into the screw connection on the back of the home theater receiver with another cable coming out of the old mixer into the receiver.

So, if I understand correctly, it sounds like i only have two outputs to two powered speakers with the Yamaha setup and probably no way to add speakers to it, and if I use the old B mixer I would need to get a second HT receiver to include more speakers.

Is that correct?

I have a 2013 MacBook Pro. One thunderbolt port. I don't remember if I have an hdmi port but will know Wednesday. I am sure I will have more questions then as I will also write down model numbers of the two mixers we currently have in the space.

Thanks again for your time.

[Qlab Newbie]

Hi,

Thank you for your time. I will write down more info on our equipment and will post in this thread again. At least I know what info to gather so I won't be wasting people's time asking questions I should have answers to before posting.

Thanks!

[Qlab Newbie]

Hi again,

Looked up our mixer - it is a Yamaha EMX5016CF

It appears to have two Aux on back in addition to the two Speakon Outputs.

Is it possible to run an audio snake out from this mixer to extra speakers? The guy who bought this mixer for the theatre a few years ago suggested an audio snake for our musical so we could plug / unplug musician equipment and monitors from backstage as opposed to running all cables from the mixer in the booth.

I would imagine I would still need some type of amplifier for our passive speakers correct?

The Crown XLS is in my price range, but since they are all two channel I would have to purchase in stages as it appears I would need four to give me the eight channels I need. Unless I can figure out how to mix and match with the equipment we have, and the various uses we need each season.

I would like to maybe come up with options I can present to our board and see if we can find some grant money somewhere.

Thanks again for your input on this.

[Paul Gotch]

On 07/06/2015 23:39, Qlab Newbie wrote:
> Thanks again for your input on this.

The 'twist' connectors are called Neutrik Speakon connectors and are
designed to make connections between amplifiers and passive speakers.

The Yamaha desk you have has 2 channels of internal amplification which
is why you are making connections using speakon betweeen the desk and
your front of house speakers.

Unamplified connections are made a 'line' level to get these over any
distance without picking up noise they must be 'balanced'. Balanced
connections are made by either XLR connectors which look like:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xlr-connectors.jpg

or balanced jack also caled 'Tip Ring Sleeve' (TRS) connectors which
look like the rightmost connector in this picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trsconnectors.jpg

As well as locating the amplifier in the same box as the mixer or as an
entirely separate unit it's also possible to locate it in the same box
as the speaker such speakers are generally called 'active' speakers.

In your situation I'd forget about the Behringer desk and the home level
receivers and speakers for your actual performance space and permanently
install the Yamaha and install your speakon connected passive speakers
at front of house.

I would then buy a USB audio interface that had at least 6 balanced
outputs and run the main 2 outputs in to a stereo input on the Yamaha
desk. Thus givng you basic stereo playback into the front of house system.

In Focusrite's range this would be something like an Scarlett 18i20,

http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i20

Ignore the fact it claims many more inputs and outputs than you need as
it really only has 8 analogue line level balanced outputs. The rest are
counting headphone outputs and various digital options.

This will leave the thunderbolt port free for video.

I would then run the other outputs of the Scarlett directly (without the
mixer involved) into powered speakers that have balanced inputs for
example the cheapest end of things that might be suitable would be
Something like behringer Eurolive 108D

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B108D.aspx

Thus giving you effects and playback from QLab to speakers on stage or
indeed anywhere else you can get a signal cable to from the Focusrite in
your venue.

Note: You will need a licensed version of QLab 3 in order for the
software to support more than 2 outputs to make this work.

-p

[Qlab Newbie]

Thanks for the input.  We have a Qlab Version 2 Pro Bundle right now and I am approaching the board this week about upgrading to Version 3 Pro Bundle so we can continue to use Qlab for Video and allow for multiple audio outputs.

And thanks for the suggestions on equipment as well. Appreciate your time.