[QLab] Making a QLAB 'Go' button box.

[Chris Mower]

I'm not sure if anyone else has posted something similar, so apologies if this is a duplication.

I have always felt uneasy about using the keyboard of a computer to trigger queues in a darkened theatre as there are too many opportunities to press the wrong key. I usually have to take my eyes off the script to check my finger is paused ready over the correct key which means that I then have to re-locate my place in the script ready for the queue. This might be OK for someone who does this day in day out for living, but I work in amateur theatre and only do this three or four times a year hence my problem.

I decided that what I needed was a box with a nice illuminated button which I can press to trigger the 'Go' and it occurred to me that I could build one with an old USB keyboard. As I don't know how to upload stuff to this group I have published the information to my website. Here is the link to the detailed instructions along with pictures.

http://homepage.mac.com/kintekobo/comiclife

Regards,
Chris
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[RJ Givens]

X-Keys makes a trigger you can use with q-lab,   or if you have an interface with an assignable foot switch, you could just build a cheap contact closure and set the foot pedal to space bar.  

On Dec 6, 2010, at 2:13 PM, qlab-r...@lists.figure53.com wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 18:44:26 +0000
From: Chris Mower <chris...@gmail.com>
To: ql...@lists.figure53.com
Subject: [QLab] Making a QLAB 'Go' button box.
Message-ID: <35C41D49-BC3A-4E26...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

[vanmeel...@planet.nl]

I love this kind of solutions,
One ran into a situation witch need a solution and then he's coming up with a "hacked" keyboard !
Must be fun to figure everything out.
This is what theater-making is all about.

Roland


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: qlab-b...@lists.figure53.com namens RJ Givens
Verzonden: ma 6-12-2010 23:32
Aan: ql...@lists.figure53.com
Onderwerp: Re: [QLab] Making a QLAB 'Go' button box.

[Chris Mower]

Very kind of you to say so.

I have another design which uses two hacked USB keyboards to trigger two Mac's so I can run a live backup. This is a little more complicated as it requires a small amount of additional electronics in order to emulate the key-press. If anyone is interested I can post the circuit diagram and construction notes.

Chris

[mackerr]

On Dec 6, 1:44 pm, Chris Mower <chris.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I decided that what I needed was a box with a nice illuminated button which I can press to trigger the 'Go' and it occurred to me that I could build one with an old USB keyboard. As I don't know how to upload stuff to this group I have published the information to my website.

I guess you do not have the midi license. With midi it is dead easy,
and has been done hundreds of times. I would be as uncomfortable with
hacked keyboards as with using a keyboard. With midi you can have lots
of buttons, or one button, fire one computer, or many, whatever works
for your needs.

Mac

[Chris Mower]

You are correct in your guess that I do not have the Midi licence. As I am only involved with amateur theatre and do maybe four or five shows a year I can't really justify the cost. But as I am an electronic engineer/programmer the hardware solution seemed a no-brainer and should be no less safe than a button on a midi device. I suppose it's what you're comfortable with.

Chris

[Andy Leviss]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Chris Mower <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But as I am an electronic engineer/programmer the hardware solution seemed a
> no-brainer and should be no less safe than a button on a midi device. I
> suppose it's what you're comfortable with.

The two "safety" issues are:

1) MIDI will trigger regardless of which program has focus. With a
keyboard trigger, if QLab loses focus by an accidental click
elsewhere, it won't get the trigger.

2) Keyboards are designed for a different duty cycle, and have a
different debounce structure, as well as a different
press/hold/release behavior. A purpose-built MIDI remote has debounce
and press/release behavior specifically designed for our uses. I can't
speak to other manufacturers' products intimitely, of course, by here
at Duck's Echo Sound, our MR series remotes all have custom debounce
routines designed to make sure there's no chance of multiple-triggers,
but also no latency in intentional triggers.

Then there's the other benefits, like the ability to customize things
a lot more. We've recently built a custom remote for a major NYC show
that has a single button that toggles between stop all and reset all,
or pause all and unpause all, but with varying degrees of timeout and
interlocked reset so that the button always does what you expect it to
(for example, if you press pause all, the next button press is a reset
all, but if you hit stop all instead, that resets the pause button to
pause again. If you hit stop all, the next press is reset all, but if
you wait more than a user set amount of time, it assumes you don't
need to reset, and reverts to stop again.)

So a hacked keyboard is certainly a better solution than a stock
keyboard, but there are most certainly benefits to a purpose-built
midi controller above and beyond that, too.

--Andy

[Chris Mower]

Andy,

I am not disputing the virues of Midi. However, how do you use QLab with Midi if you don't have a midi licence? I can't justify buying a midi licence for the few times a year I will be using QLab so I looked for an alternative solution to my particular problem. 

I have just discovered QLab and I am running the basic version at the moment and I will be buying the audio upgrade as I need the extra audio out channels for SFX. Midi is a luxury that will have to wait for the time being.

Chris

[mackerr]

On Dec 7, 2:50 pm, Chris Mower <chris.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy,
>
> I am not disputing the virues of Midi. However, how do you use QLab with
> Midi if you don't have a midi licence? I can't justify buying a midi licence
> for the few times a year I will be using QLab so I looked for an alternative
> solution to my particular problem.
>

One way would be to have the show rent the midi license at $3/day for
the run of the show. You could do all your preproduction without the
midi control, but have it available for rehearsals and performances.

Mac

[Christopher Ashworth]

On Dec 7, 2010, at 2:58 PM, mackerr wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2:50 pm, Chris Mower <chris.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Andy,
>>
>> I am not disputing the virues of Midi. However, how do you use QLab with
>> Midi if you don't have a midi licence? I can't justify buying a midi licence
>> for the few times a year I will be using QLab so I looked for an alternative
>> solution to my particular problem.
>>
>
> One way would be to have the show rent the midi license at $3/day for
> the run of the show. You could do all your preproduction without the
> midi control, but have it available for rehearsals and performances.

Of course, that also requires that Chris buy MIDI equipment for a trigger, which costs money too.

Personally, I think it's a really cool project. I'll be sharing it on the blog, soonish.

Cheers,

Chris

[Andy Leviss]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Mower <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not disputing the virues of Midi. However, how do you use QLab with
> Midi if you don't have a midi licence? I can't justify buying a midi licence
> for the few times a year I will be using QLab so I looked for an alternative
> solution to my particular problem.

Completely understandable, and I agree that in your circumstances,
it's a perfectly good solution. I was merely answering the question
asked of how MIDI was safer than a keyboard-driven solution :-)

[*]

It also appears as if MIDI triggers are faster responding than keyboard
triggers. I haven't tested this scientifically but on "Nutcracker" one of
the songs happens as a dancer leaps into the air. In rehearsal I had no
luck getting the timing correct using the space bar or mount click on GO.
Neither was consistently on time or late, just random.

With the MIDI trigger, no problem. It's almost too fast now:)

So in addition to midi being able to function with Qlab minimized / not
the front workspace, maybe it's also a more direct line into Qlab.

Maybe the OS doesn't prioritize key strokes but instead takes them when
it's good & ready. Anyone know?

*

On Tue, December 7, 2010 2:52 pm, Andy Leviss wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Mower <chris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am not disputing the virues of Midi. However, how do you use QLab with
>> Midi if you don't have a midi licence? I can't justify buying a midi
>> licence
>> for the few times a year I will be using QLab so I looked for an
>> alternative
>> solution to my particular problem.
>
> Completely understandable, and I agree that in your circumstances,
> it's a perfectly good solution. I was merely answering the question
> asked of how MIDI was safer than a keyboard-driven solution :-)

[Chris Mower]

Did you have the require key up option enabled? If so that would delay the action until the spacebar was released?

 

Chris

[Bennett Jensen]

Hi Chris
Thanks for the great idea, I have been trying to build something
similar. Where did you get the illuminated buttons, I checked the
local shops with no luck. Did you get yours online somewhere?

Thanks
Bennett Jensen

[Nick Kourtides]

For buttons:  www.alliedelec.com, www.mouser.com, www.digikey.com

nick

[Chris Mower]

Bennett,

I bought the buttons in Maplins. Are you in the UK? If so here is a link to the item -

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=34859

Chris

[*]

Chris,

The model you provide a link to says it's a PUSH ON / PUSH OFF button.
Unless the terminology is different, this would mean that it's maintained
switch & not momentary.

Maybe this is the one you meant to link to:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=34858

Folks, you don't want to use a maintained push button for your GO button
or any other triggers. If you do & forget to push it OFF after each
trigger, it won't work on the next push. No need to fight that battle.

"momentary"

*

On Wed, December 8, 2010 11:51 am, Chris Mower wrote:
> Bennett,
>
> I bought the buttons in Maplins. Are you in the UK? If so here is a link
> to
> the item -
>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=34859
>
> Chris

________________________________________________________

[Chris Mower]

Bennett,

You are absolutely right about it being the wrong button. I bought my buttons in the shop rather than online so I just did a search on the Maplin site. Is my face ever red! You definitely do not want a locking button.

However, the correct button ( I dug out the package from the trash ) is actually this -

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=34861

if you want an illuminated button.

Chris

[Andrew Kirkby]

I'm planning on doing the same idea for a cheap USB  midi keyboard. Anyone know of any osx compatibles in the uk? I guess I'll just need a basic one..

Andrew Kirkby

Kirkby Sound

and...@kirkbysound.com

www.kirkbysound.com

(This message was sent from my iPhone so a prompt reply may not be possible)

________________________________________________________

[Rob Kettridge]

I built something very similar but i used 2 keyboards wired together
so one button shorts the pins on two circuit boards. This then links
via two usb cables, one to the main and one to the backup playback
machine. Doesn't give you sample accurate sync, but for the shows we
do, by the time you've noticed the main playback's failed (not that it
ever has yet... thanks Chris et all ;o) you've probably had enough
stuttering/silence to not notice.

I got buttons from CPC here in the UK. Didn't need illuminated as
they're under my sound desk lights. Was more concerned about switches
that needed a decent positive force to avoid false GOs and minimal
click to avoid audience annoyance.

HTH

Rob

[Pete WideOpen]

I realize this is outdated but thought I would post in case anyone is interested.

We run q lab via foot pedals (go, volume, stop all, previous cue) so our hands are free to puppeteer.

http://www.stealthswitch2.com/

This is a usb foot switch but there are now blue tooth capable models coming out which we are interested to try.  it would be great to try GoButton with one.

pete

[Vinny Osborne]

OR YOU COULD JUST USE THIS http://widgeteering.com

[Lists]

Or this:

http://ducksechosound.com

Charles Coes

cco...@gmail.com
www.charlescoes.com
"Why shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction?  Fiction after all has to make sense" - Mark Twain

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[Eric]

Or this:

http://www.teamsound.nyc/

Really at this point there are a lot of great high quality options out there. 

-- 
Eric

[Geep Howell]

I rolled my own with a Midi Solutions 8 port footswitch controller box.  If you already have one, cheap solution, just need the momentary pushbuttons, a box to put ‘em on and a chassis punch.

[sam kusnetz]

Hello Folks

The last link posted, teamsound.nyc, is my new venture and I haven't
really announced it yet since I'm still getting everything in order. But
since this is the topic of the moment, I suppose now is the time!

My name is Sam Kusnetz, and I expect most of you here know me as one of
the QLab support guys. That is one part of my work life, along with
designing sound in and around New York. Team Sound is a new venture of
mine, entirely independent of Figure 53. To be clear: this is *not* a
Figure 53-related thing.

My first release is the Go Box 4, a four-button USB MIDI remote for QLab
and any other software that responds to MIDI. I'm waiting on some
materials to be delivered, and should be able to start filling orders in
about two weeks.

I will be following up shortly thereafter with the Go Box 6, which is a
six-button, dual-USB interface designed for redundant QLab rigs.

Please do check out my new site, and ask any questions.

www.teamsound.nyc

best
Sam
--
sam kusnetz, sound & projection design | USA-829
503.201.2591
s...@notquite.net

[Andy Leviss Lang]

Hey everybody, I hope you all are well! 

In a bit of a follow up to Sam's post, many of you know this, but some do not...due to a number of extenuating circumstances, I've had to put Duck's Echo on hold for the time being, and have not been accepting new orders for the past couple of months.

That being the case,  I'm ecstatic to see Sam jumping in on things as
a sort of spiritual successor to my hardware devices.

That is to say, I have no involvement with Sam's hardware, aside from
chiming in with friendly advice (solicited or otherwise ;-) from time
to time. But, since I'm not able to fill the need in the market myself
these days, I'm thrilled to see him jumping into the ring with a fresh
take on this!

Best always,
Andy

[fishmonkey]

it looks great. what are the dimensions?

it does make me think that i do wish someone would make a bulletproof show controller that is lower profile though, something less chunky, and ideally with a sloping top...

[sam kusnetz]

fishmonkey wrote:
> it looks great. what are the dimensions?

The Go Box 4 is 2.6" wide, 4.75" long, and 1.39" thick, not including
little adhesive rubber feet.

The Go Box 6 is still slightly in flux, but it's looking like it will be
4.7" x 3.6" x 1.5"

> it does make me think that i do wish someone would make a bulletproof
> show controller that is lower profile though, something less chunky,
> and ideally with a sloping top...

What do you mean by sloping top?

It's good to know that you might be interested in a smaller model. The
question is always what you'e willing to trade in order to get a smaller
container. Certainly the Neutrik connectors would have to go.

Anyway, good to know! Stay tuned.

-Sam

--
sam kusnetz, sound & projection design | USA-829
503.201.2591

www.teamsound.nyc

[Scott George]

Shameless plug coming up here.

At Autograph we started making changeover/trigger systems quite a few years ago and due to demand we now offer them for sale. Be warned this is not a cheap solution but you will see our devices on many major West End and Broadway productions.

For more info visit http://www.signatureseries.biz and check out the XUSB2. This started out very much like the projects you are building and then grew when we asked ourselves "what do we really want it to do?"
Cheers,

Scott

[fishmonkey]

 i wouldn't want to sacrifice really good connectors.

by sloping i meant that the rear of the unit might be higher than the front, so that the top surface with the buttons is on a more ergonomic angle...

[fishmonkey]

to be clear, i wouldn't want/need it to be any smaller in terms of depth or width. it's obviously important that the box has a big enough footprint to be stable...

[Matthew Weeks]

Hi Chris,

I've used your instructions page a few times for reference but since it was archived none of the pictures are available.
is there a way of getting hold of the diagrams again?

thanks

Matt

On Monday, December 6, 2010 at 6:44:26 PM UTC, Chris Mower wrote: