Re- Quebec Independence
Eric
Bonjour Marc,
you wrote:
"The best proof of this is that the english started to fleee as soon as
we got
rid of religion and started to take over our economy: they did not want
to
compete against people who were manifestly more comptetent than them!"
- Well Marc, one would think that given your (French) superiority, the
economy of Montreal would be
fantastic......better than ever! but it's not, In fact, it's worse
than ever. But I suppose That's somehow our fault too! Perhaps it would
be more realistic and fair to stop blaming others and to see where the
present, current problems are. Like where you place your vote.
That was what my post was about...just to have people take a better look
around. While you may like to beleive that Quebec was built by
Francophones and therefore you have more 'rights' than I, I would
suggest that many parts, specifically the Eastern Townships were built
by Loyalists from the States. We have a long history here as well. Yet,
you don't care, you change the name of our street signs etc. without
thinking twice...like it's more your land than mine. Think again please,
it is insulting & ridiculous.
you wrote: - "The only anglos left here are those who are not comptetent
enough to be
transferred to Mississauga..." "Why don't you leave for Ontario? There
will be no french there to annoy you"
- my problem is not at all with Francophones, I married one.... but
rather with much of their politics and their choice and support of
destructive political parties and policies. it is always such a
'passionate' yet clearly economically destructive notion here in Quebec.
It's like, as long as it's made 'Passionate' you'll vote for it. Never
mind it's foolish and unfair. Ridiculous.
Salut,
Eric
Marc Dufour
==============================================================
Eric <mai...@microtec.net>
écrivit le/wrote on Mon, 08 Jun 1998 03:11:06 GMT
à propos de/about Re- Quebec Independence
--------------------------------------------------------------
>Bonjour Marc,
>
>you wrote:
>
>"The best proof of this is that the english started to fleee as soon as
>we got
>rid of religion and started to take over our economy: they did not want
>to
>compete against people who were manifestly more comptetent than them!"
>
>- Well Marc, one would think that given your (French) superiority, the
>economy of Montreal would be
>fantastic......better than ever! but it's not, In fact, it's worse
It is excellent. Of course, for you, the english (a nation of shopkeepers),
economy is strictly commerce (and maybe a little manufacturing). Commerce
isn't exactly booming, and who gives a shit about shopkeepers?
Shopkeepers create nothing at all, they just move stuff around.
No, the real economy, and where it is booming, is the high technology sector.
Now, I know, that's a hard fact to grasp for a shopkeeper.
You see, modern technology is dependant on extremely skilled workers (that's
someone who do something like designing some aircraft subsystem, a software
analysis program, or devellopping a method to automate the production of a
genetically-engineered drug, all things a thousand times more complex than
punching items in a cash registers, going to the bank [perhaps while
laughing], and watching the stock market [buying low, selling high]).
Now, to become an extremely skilled worker, one has to go to school for that.
And then, afterward, one finds a job for a company that manufactures aircraft
or drugs (not exactly the same kind of thing as selling barley, haywire or
postum coffee, or manufacturing sugar, gasoline or running a railroad), where
one will be thinking about doing a good job.
Employers like a lot people who do a good job. However, when someone comes
about who dreams about starting his own company, the employer knows very well
that this guy will eventually go start his own company and compete with him.
This is the reason why high-technology companies are flocking to Montréal,
because french people there rarely do start their own companies, but rather
are contended to have a good job which uses their abilities well in return for
a fair treatment.
The high-technology sector is flourishing in Montréal; granted, it is not
exactly the same environment as a smokestack industry, hence the apparent
industrial problems in Montréal.
It is rather an extreme case of economic reconversion.
>than ever. But I suppose That's somehow our fault too! Perhaps it would
>be more realistic and fair to stop blaming others and to see where the
>present, current problems are. Like where you place your vote.
The current problems are, for one thing, the political uncertainty heaped
about by the anglo-saxon colonialist complex who is scared shitless at the
prospect of seeing their control over Québec, and who are mongering an
incredible campaign of denigration and disinformation to punish us for wanting
to have what all other countries of the world have: sovereignty.
>That was what my post was about...just to have people take a better look
>around. While you may like to beleive that Quebec was built by
>Francophones and therefore you have more 'rights' than I, I would
>suggest that many parts, specifically the Eastern Townships were built
>by Loyalists from the States. We have a long history here as well. Yet,
Loyalists who fled the American revolution, scared shitless by the prospect of
having to adapt to a different environment. No doubt the same kind of people
who cling to a passed way of life, where the wealthy colonialist owners led
their servants about (they need servants, because they are unable to do
anything by themselves).
>you don't care, you change the name of our street signs etc. without
>thinking twice...like it's more your land than mine. Think again please,
>it is insulting & ridiculous.
Why should we give a damn, anymore than you give a fuck about the cultural
elimination of the french in Canada? You have repeatedly been unable to adapt
to changing times, and in result, have fled somwewhere else where your customs
would not look as alien as they always did here.
At least, you guys always have Ontario to fallback to. We don't have that. We
have nothing else but Québec. Of course, it will be harder for you to dominate
in Ontario; it's full of english, there, and the english need someone to
dominate.
You are welcome to stay in Québec, as long as you accept that the french are
the majority of people there, and that french law, customs and mindset is the
norm, and not impose your laws, culture, language and customs upon us, just
like any immigrant in Canada is expected to accept that english is the
majority of poeple there, and that english law, customs and mindset is the
norm, and not impose their laws, culture, language and customs upon the
english.
>you wrote: - "The only anglos left here are those who are not comptetent
>enough to be
>transferred to Mississauga..." "Why don't you leave for Ontario? There
>will be no french there to annoy you"
>
>- my problem is not at all with Francophones, I married one.... but
>rather with much of their politics and their choice and support of
>destructive political parties and policies. it is always such a
>'passionate' yet clearly economically destructive notion here in Quebec.
You don't agree with all this, because it does not give support to your credo
that you're here to dominate us, that's all.
You don't understand that we are not like you guys, that we have a different
outlook on life, that we view the interaction of states and individuals
differently, that we expect law to do different things, that we **DO** enjoy a
big state to look after us, that we are **HAPPY** to pay taxes and **GET**
services (a lot of services) in return.
You understand nothing of what makes us tick. So, stop telling us what we
should do. We **KNOW** what we should do, it just happens that it is not what
you think we oughta do. This is **YOUR** problem, not ours.
>It's like, as long as it's made 'Passionate' you'll vote for it. Never
>mind it's foolish and unfair. Ridiculous.
If you want to understand, this is the place to ask questions. Ask the
questions; the only stupid question is the unasked one.
But the first thing that you have to understand is that you're the oddball
here. You have to understand that you are the nail sticking out.
We don't want you to change; no one wants to change - at least, we understand
that. All we want is you to understand **US**, and here, **US** is the most
people.
But if you don't want to understand, what the hell are you doing here? We're
no longer interested in your domination, we had enough of it.
-- GODZILLA: -------------------------------------------------------- --
Son cerveau est aussi gros que le point à la fin de cette phrase.
It's brain is as big as the period at the end of this sentence.
-- Marc Dufour - [\] - Marc....@emdx.qc.ca - http://www.emdx.qc.ca --
Eric
Marc Dufour wrote:
he current problems are, for one thing, the political uncertainty heaped
about by the anglo-saxon colonialist complex who is scared shitless at the
prospect of seeing their control over Québec, and who are mongering an
incredible campaign of denigration and disinformation to punish us for wanting
to have what all other countries of the world have: sovereignty.
-We're mongering a campaign of disinformation? I thought that was you!
-Control over Quebec? Hey, we just want equal rights, but that's too much for you.
it
is the Quebecois who are control freaks.
- you ARE in a country Marc.
you wrote:
Loyalists who fled the American revolution, scared shitless by the prospect of
having to adapt to a different environment. No doubt the same kind of people
who cling to a passed way of life, where the wealthy colonialist owners led
their servants about (they need servants, because they are unable to do
anything by themselves).
- servants? Geez did my anscestors have servants? I've done the genealogy, and i
thought they were just simple farmers who cleared 100's of acres by hand, only to
someday have it end up in a different 'country'.
Slaves? hmmmm don't think so. In general the loyalists lost everything they had,
fled from the States where their previous land and homes were seized. They came
here with nothing and built alot, on no ones back's but their own. While the
french were busy trading (shopkeepers?) & having kids. The english were working
their asses off for a better life. My family has been here for over 200 yrs. They
came here with nothing & built alot. Farmers mostly, then in time, lawyers,
businessmen , town clerks, etc. but started w/ nothing other than a grant of 50
acres.I don't claim to know all about the french, or English customs at that time,
but it is my understanding that education was not high on the list for
Francophones. Now, years later, we kept you down? We're Loyalist's with slaves?
Hey, I think Church & children are fine, but they don't build a better economic
life, just 'a life'. Chances are those English you're referring to gave your
anscestors jobs. You probably think they 'took advantage of them'. I think, they
gave them a job and they probably appreciated it. Your anscestors could have owned
the shop too, if they chose to. But they didn't. For many reasons perhaps out of
their control(like culture,family,school system,scolastic ethics), they just
didn't. My fault! My fault! - oh please!
You can say alot about the English, but you can't say we don't work hard.
To suggest that we sit in shops and have other people work is crap. That
shopkeeper you're referring to? Well he worked his ass off to own that place so he
could sit...finally. Then, you up and changed the name of his family store. Next,
you'll just take it from him, claiming it should have been yours. After all, you
already rip up his vote.
Anyway, how did the French come to Canada? I've heard stories and they don't
exactly make your roots admirable.We'ren't you sent here? from France? as
undesirables? That's what a Francophone told me. ( though he may have been full of
it...said he was taught that in highschool but that no one liked to talk about it
here...no kidding)
I have no problem with the French...but clearly, you have a thorn in your side
regarding the English. Sorry about that. I am aware that there is a lot of old
luggage here....that doesn't make Quebec more your home than mine. Like, get over
it. Why do you suggest that Quebec has to be culturally 'French'? It is what it
is, a French majority, but with many cultures that give it flavor.
They should all be respected.
"The English want to control things in Quebec" - please, spare me. That is the
only song you guys know.
Work hard? I've worked hard all my life, with my hands, and I, don't take winters
off and jump on Chomage and work for black money on the side. I wish I could say
that about many of my French colleagues. Though, I know many hardworking
Francophones as well.
I don't judge the French, why do you judge the English?
-we've walked in different gardens and knealt at different graves.
Best to you, Eric
amar...@my-dejanews.com
In article <3591b00b....@news.total.net>,
MERDEpourle...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> This is the reason why high-technology companies are flocking to Montréal,
> because french people there rarely do start their own companies, but rather
> are contended to have a good job which uses their abilities well in return for
> a fair treatment.
Yes, yes I see. Corel. Head office Ottawa. Newbridge. Head office Ottawa.
Nortel. Head office, Ottawa. Chretien-Bombardier, Montreal.
> The high-technology sector is flourishing in Montréal; granted, it is not
> exactly the same environment as a smokestack industry, hence the apparent
> industrial problems in Montréal.
Have breathing problems much out there in Repentigny?
>
> It is rather an extreme case of economic reconversion.
>
It is a rather unextreme case of it, because it is happening everywhere, to
varying extents.
> >than ever. But I suppose That's somehow our fault too! Perhaps it would
> >be more realistic and fair to stop blaming others and to see where the
> >present, current problems are. Like where you place your vote.
>
> The current problems are, for one thing, the political uncertainty heaped
> about by the anglo-saxon colonialist complex who is scared shitless at the
> prospect of seeing their control over Québec,
And that anglo plot the law that says that you have to conduct your official
business in French if you have more than 50 employees. And your heavy loads
of unions. All anglo-saxon colonialist plots
and who are mongering an
> incredible campaign of denigration and disinformation to punish us for wanting
> to have what all other countries of the world have: sovereignty.
>
All one big plot!
> >
>
> Loyalists who fled the American revolution, scared shitless by the prospect of
> having to adapt to a different environment. No doubt the same kind of people
> who cling to a passed way of life, where the wealthy colonialist owners led
> their servants about (they need servants, because they are unable to do
> anything by themselves).
Or because they have the money, and you don't. It pains you a great deal,
doesn't it?
>
> >
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Peter S. Saly
> Marc Dufour wrote:
> >
> >"The best proof of this is that the english started to fleee as soon as
we got
> >rid of religion and started to take over our economy: they did not want
to
> >compete against people who were manifestly more comptetent than them!"
> >
> Eric écrivit le/wrote
> >
> >- Well Marc, one would think that given your (French) superiority, the
> >economy of Montreal would be
> >fantastic......better than ever! but it's not, In fact, it's worse
>
The real issue is that people like marc NEVER got rid of religion...
They just swapped one religion for another..
The NEW religion is called 'SEPARATISM"....
And the followers of this new religion are in now way different from other
fanatics..
> Marc Dufour wrote:
> >
> It is excellent. Of course, for you, the english (a nation of
shopkeepers),
> economy is strictly commerce (and maybe a little manufacturing). Commerce
> isn't exactly booming, and who gives a shit about shopkeepers?
>
> Shopkeepers create nothing at all, they just move stuff around.
>
Classic Dufour clueless prejudice and ignorance...
1) You are quite right that shopkeepers do not create goods....
But they do create a SERVICE...
And even though SERVICE is an intangible, IT is as important a product as
an item for sale...
The product of shopkeepers is the CREATION of markets...
And we all know that without the shopkeepers, the PRODUCTS would NOT get
sold as efficiently...
2) By the way, Dufour, the Quebec government gives a HUGE shit about your
so-called shopkeepers..
And do you why ?
Because they are the PRIME source of NEW jobs as well as the prime source
of MOST new businesses....
> Marc Dufour blathered on::
> >
> No, the real economy, and where it is booming, is the high technology
sector.
> Now, I know, that's a hard fact to grasp for a shopkeeper.
>
Actually you are wrong again...
Just look at ALL the small computer stores that appeared in the last 20
years...
Without them, most people would NOT have bought their first MACs or PCs....
The MEGA-Computer stores only appeared AFTER the market stabilized and
market economies became the way to stay alive in the marketplace...
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> You see, modern technology is dependant on extremely skilled workers
(that's
> someone who do something like designing some aircraft subsystem, a
software
> analysis program, or devellopping a method to automate the production of
a
> genetically-engineered drug, all things a thousand times more complex
than
> punching items in a cash registers, going to the bank [perhaps while
> laughing], and watching the stock market [buying low, selling high]).
>
Actually, you are wrong again...
Skilled workers were around before the industrial revolution...
Hell, the guys who made the first tools and weapons from stone and flint
were skilled workers.
In the same way, even a shopkeeper is a skilled worker..
Their skill happens to be in making the goods available to the buyers at
reasonable price...
> Marc Dufour kept on blathering:
> >
> Now, to become an extremely skilled worker, one has to go to school for
that.
> And then, afterward, one finds a job for a company that manufactures
aircraft
> or drugs (not exactly the same kind of thing as selling barley, haywire
or
> postum coffee, or manufacturing sugar, gasoline or running a railroad),
where
> one will be thinking about doing a good job.
>
Well geez, boy...
Why do you think people with MBAs are often paid more than doctors...
Because they have a skill in managing businesses...
I guess that makes them skilled workers too...
Better yet it makes them skilled workers in greater demand than other
skilled workers...
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> Employers like a lot people who do a good job. However, when someone
comes
> about who dreams about starting his own company, the employer knows very
well
> that this guy will eventually go start his own company and compete with
him.
>
Obviously you never heard of the 3M Corporation (among others) where the
company nurtures the entrepreneurial skills it's employees..
As a matter of fact, the guy who invented the glue behind the Post-It Note
was a chemist for 3M..
The story of how 3M helped him start the Post-It Note division of 3M is
standard fare in most business schools teaching Entrepreneurship....
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> This is the reason why high-technology companies are flocking to
Montréal,
> because french people there rarely do start their own companies, but
rather
> are contended to have a good job which uses their abilities well in
return for
> a fair treatment.
>
How many are flocking to Montreal as opposed to other areas..
If Montreal was such a hotbed of activity
It would NOT be the ONLY city in North America with DOUBLE-DIGIT
unemployment
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> The high-technology sector is flourishing in Montréal; granted, it is not
> exactly the same environment as a smokestack industry, hence the apparent
> industrial problems in Montréal.
>
> It is rather an extreme case of economic reconversion.
>
Yea right...
Dufour the world-renowned Economist and Technologist..... NOT!
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> The current problems are, for one thing, the political uncertainty heaped
> about by the anglo-saxon colonialist complex who is scared shitless at
the
> prospect of seeing their control over Québec, and who are mongering an
> incredible campaign of denigration and disinformation to punish us for
wanting
> to have what all other countries of the world have: sovereignty.
>
FOOL..
Most small and medium sized business in Quebec are owned locally by
Quebecois...
Get some facts before you say anything more, stupid...
And weren't you te idiot recently beating his chest about those very
entrepreneurs just a few weeks ago..
That study did talk about the business instability caused by political
uncertainty caused by the separatist movement....
Or are you trying to tell us that the separatist movement is an anglo
conspiracy...
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> Loyalists who fled the American revolution, scared shitless by the
prospect of
> having to adapt to a different environment. No doubt the same kind of
people
> who cling to a passed way of life, where the wealthy colonialist owners
led
> their servants about (they need servants, because they are unable to do
> anything by themselves).
>
Go read a history book..
Their treatment was no different from the treatment the Acadians got at the
hands of the British...
And guess what the loyalists were hounded out their land, houses and
communities out by nationalist scumbags just like YOU.,..
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> Why should we give a damn, anymore than you give a fuck about the
cultural
> elimination of the french in Canada? You have repeatedly been unable to
adapt
> to changing times, and in result, have fled somwewhere else where your
customs
> would not look as alien as they always did here.
>
> At least, you guys always have Ontario to fallback to. We don't have
that. We
> have nothing else but Québec. Of course, it will be harder for you to
dominate
> in Ontario; it's full of english, there, and the english need someone to
> dominate.
>
This raises and interesting question...
The English who leave Quebec, where they supposedly have dominated the
French, would not be able to dominate in Ontario, because Ontario is full
of English...
I will let the readers draw their own conclusions...
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> You are welcome to stay in Québec, as long as you accept that the french
are
> the majority of people there, and that french law, customs and mindset is
the
> norm, and not impose your laws, culture, language and customs upon us,
just
> like any immigrant in Canada is expected to accept that english is the
> majority of poeple there, and that english law, customs and mindset is
the
> norm, and not impose their laws, culture, language and customs upon the
> english.
>
But according to Dufour, the English assimilate and dominate EVERYBODY
else..
So how can any non-English who come to Canada
"impose their laws, culture, language and customs upon the english".??
Obviously, Dufour is chewing on his shoes again....
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> You don't agree with all this, because it does not give support to your
credo
> that you're here to dominate us, that's all.
>
Sorry Dufour..
It is YOUR credo that the English are here to dominate YOU....
That's exactly what you have been saying above....
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> You don't understand that we are not like you guys, that we have a
different
> outlook on life, that we view the interaction of states and individuals
> differently, that we expect law to do different things, that we **DO**
enjoy a
> big state to look after us, that we are **HAPPY** to pay taxes and
**GET**
> services (a lot of services) in return.
>
Dufour confuses most Quebecois with himself and sheep...
Fortunately the majority of Quebecois are NOT like Dufour...
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> You understand nothing of what makes us tick. So, stop telling us what we
> should do. We **KNOW** what we should do, it just happens that it is not
what
> you think we oughta do. This is **YOUR** problem, not ours.
>
Obviously a great MANY Quebecois do NOT know (as dufour does) what they
should do..
But apparently, they DO KNOW that separation is NOT the answer....
> Marc Dufour blathered some more:
> >
> >It's like, as long as it's made 'Passionate' you'll vote for it. Never
> >mind it's foolish and unfair. Ridiculous.
>
> If you want to understand, this is the place to ask questions. Ask the
> questions; the only stupid question is the unasked one.
>
> But the first thing that you have to understand is that you're the
oddball
> here. You have to understand that you are the nail sticking out.
>
> We don't want you to change; no one wants to change - at least, we
understand
> that. All we want is you to understand **US**, and here, **US** is the
most
> people.
>
> But if you don't want to understand, what the hell are you doing here?
We're
> no longer interested in your domination, we had enough of it.
>
Oh oh, dufour just admitted that the English still dominate him...
Poor little lamb.....