Stepping down from organizing PyWeb-IL

[Ram Rachum]

Hi everyone!

After 8 years of organizing PyWeb-IL, I decided it's finally time for me to "retire". I started having thoughts of leaving a few years ago, because PyWeb-IL hasn't been relevant to my interests for a while. I'm mostly into AI Safety research nowadays.

Aur and Gabor volunteered to be the new organizers. They are now managing our Meetup page, Trello board and Google Group. If you want to give talks, email them: sonOf...@gmail.com ga...@szabgab.com

In the 8 years I spent organizing PyWeb-IL I've had some interesting experiences and learned a few things. Around 90% of the work of organizing a meetup is boring logistical work. Like most logistics work, it's unevenly spread. Some PyWeb-IL meetups have taken me 30 minutes to organize while others have taken me 5-10 hours. That often depends on whether people already volunteered to talk, and whether we're at a familiar venue or a new venue, and of course whether any last-minute problems came up. The 30 minutes ones are a breeze. When it becomes 5-10 hours, you don't know in advance, and it just gets more frustrating and sunk-cost fallacy-y the deeper you go in. 

When I go to the actual meetups and sometimes actually have a good time, it almost hits me by surprise. As I'm eating a pizza and shooting the shit with one of you, I'm thinking, "Oh, I totally forgot that attending a meetup and having fun is something that's in my life and that's somehow connected to the hours of logistical work I have to do."

A few years ago I was feeling a lot of strain from managing PyWeb-IL, and I decided to move it to once in two months rather than once a month. This was a great decision that enabled me to keep on managing PyWeb-IL for a few more years rather than cutting it short then.

I've had lots of frustrations with people wanting things from me and sometimes even blaming me for things. For example, I must have had this conversation a few dozen times:

Someone: "Is the meetup going to be recorded?"

Me: "No."

Someone: "Why?"

Me: "Because no one volunteered to do that." It took me a while to find this answer, which is more effective at gently shutting people down than previous answers I used. Still, the conversation often continues:

Someone: "What's the problem though? Just get someone to put a phone on a tripod and put it on YouTube, it's not a big deal."

Me: "Why don't you do it then?"

Someone: "Uh............... <cue interpretive dance & spoken word performance> I personally can't do it because <reason I don't care about>"

It also happened a few times that people got really angry at me and blamed me for things. Five years ago I made a joke that two people found offensive. They said some harsh words to me and made public accusations towards me. Nine months ago, an executive of a well-known tech company in Tel Aviv demanded that I let his company host PyWeb-IL, and when I refused multiple times, he accused me of discrimination.

If you've been around the open-source world for a while, you've probably heard similar sentiments from various maintainers and community organizers. (Example.) My point isn't to say that these people who complain and blame are so wrong. Each of them individually may be correct in some way, and their pain isn't less important than my pain. The thing to understand is that each person who complains thinks of themselves as individuals, rather than another person in a group called "people who complain."

This experience with PyWeb-IL has made me a lot more appreciative towards people who manage groups of any kind, and not just open-source communities. Examples: Facebook groups (local neighborhood group, apartment seeking groups, various hobbies like 3D printing), vaad bayit, theater groups (my old hobby), standup open mic nights (my new hobby), academic reading groups (my current job). There's this profound thing that happens when you're the person who has to say "no" to people. When you say no, you become the bad person for at least one other person. When you say "no" a few times, it snowballs and you get into a vicious cycle of saying "no" to people who ask for things. The people who complain gradually start to see themselves as brave warriors against injustice, which only makes things worse.

While what I wrote above can sound depressing and negative, I see it in a very positive way. I have an intolerable neighbor in my building who is always aggressively yelling at people who do anything even a little bit wrong in the building. I used to hate her but after a few years of managing PyWeb-IL, I get it, and I kind of appreciate that she's there, and that I don't have to yell at anyone in the building. There are lots of other intolerable people I've known that I now appreciate more, because I understand that my frustration with them is the result of the same vicious cycle that I experienced rather than an innate meanness.

On this positive note, I want to thank all the speakers, volunteers and members of the community. I'll still be subscribed to the mailing list, and if you want to get updates about my research, subscribe here. I'll probably see you at the next meetup.

Yours,

Ram.

[Lior Kaplan]

Thank you for keeping these meetings going for the last 8 years. 

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[Pavel Suchman]

Thanks a lot Ram, you've done an amazing job and turned a bunch of disconnected people  into a community. 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 16:56 Ram Rachum <r...@rachum.com> wrote:

[Jonathan Jacob]

I only came to one meeting but it was well organized and the topic was interesting

Thank you for your contribution especially in light of the fact that it has fallen off your interest radar a while ago

[moshe nahmias]

Thanks for a well organized meetup for so long, you helped create this community and maintain it, that is not an easy task

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[Meir Kriheli]

Thanks Ram for all the grunt work organizing PyWeb-IL. Handling and organizing communities can be taxing.

Unfortunately we don't see too much new blood infused into running those, but that's natural I guess.

Oh well, not all gloom and doom, thanks again Ram, and Aur + Gabor for stepping up.

Cheers

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[Shai Berger]

Hi Ram,

Thanks for all the years running this meetup that, in large part, was
the base on which PyCon Israel was erected. You've been an excellent
shepherd for this community, and I dearly hope you'll still take part
in it -- you've had a long record of contribution as a participant, not
just as an administrator.

Gabor and Aur, good luck!

As a community -- let's keep this thing going.

Have fun,
Shai.

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 16:54:03 +0300
Ram Rachum <r...@rachum.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> After 8 years of organizing PyWeb-IL, I decided it's finally time for
> me to "retire". I started having thoughts of leaving a few years ago,
> because PyWeb-IL hasn't been relevant to my interests for a while.

> I'm mostly into AI Safety research <https://r.rachum.com/> nowadays.
>
> *Aur and Gabor volunteered to be the new organizers. *They are now
> managing our Meetup page <https://www.meetup.com/PyWeb-IL/>, Trello
> board <https://trello.com/b/4G4euzfx/pyweb-il-talks> and Google Group
> <https://groups.google.com/g/pyweb-il/>. If you want to give talks,

> performance> about>"

>
>
> It also happened a few times that people got really angry at me and
> blamed me for things. Five years ago I made a joke that two people
> found offensive. They said some harsh words to me and made public
> accusations towards me. Nine months ago, an executive of a well-known

> tech company in Tel Aviv *demanded *that I let his company host

> PyWeb-IL, and when I refused multiple times, he accused me of
> discrimination.
>
> If you've been around the open-source world for a while, you've
> probably heard similar sentiments from various maintainers and
> community organizers. (Example

> <https://snarky.ca/why-i-took-october-off-from-oss-volunteering/>.)

> <https://r.rachum.com/announce>. I'll probably see you at the next
> meetup.
>
>
> Yours,
> Ram.
>

[alonn]

Thanks Ram, As others already wrote, you did a great job keeping this group alive, overcoming difficulties (like the Corona ) and changes. For me personally it was my "home" community, which allowed me to grow professionally from my newbie days . In our interactions, you were always kind and thoughtful and I'm grateful for that