Android phones.

[Alan Kennedy]

Hi all,

I'm looking forward to the Christmas meetup tonight.

I'll be getting an Android phone in the coming weeks, and will be
hoping to gather opinions on which is the best available right now. My
phone provider, Vodafone, only has the HTC Tattoo; Meteor has the HTC
Hero: I'd switch to Meteor if the Hero is the best option.

Or I'd wait a few weeks/months if there is better option coming down the line.

I came across this comparison of the Tattoo vs. the Hero.

http://www.androidguys.com/2009/11/11/htc-tattoo-vs-htc-hero/

Is it possible to run python on Android?

Alan.

[Stephen Butler]

Of course it's possible, don't you remember the replicant snake scene in Blade Runner?

2009/12/9 Alan Kennedy <alan.kennedy.name@gmail.com>

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[Alan Kennedy]

[Alan]

>> Is it possible to run python on Android?

[Stephen]

> Of course it's possible, don't you remember the replicant snake scene in
> Blade Runner?

:-D

I was asking python ON android, not IN .....

Al.

[Aoife Hughes]

I remember seeing it being run on the G1 - so it's definitely possible
to run it on the Android OS, although I'd imagine the user experience
with the interpreter might be difficult if you don't have a keyboard.

2009/12/9 Alan Kennedy <alan.ken...@gmail.com>:

[moylan]

2009/12/9 Alan Kennedy <alan.kennedy.name@gmail.com>

Is it possible to run python on Android?

android scripting environment (ase)

it's alpha software.  python on symbian is better at the mo.

http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

i have it on a htc hero.  really needs a keyboard and bt on android doesn't support bt keyboards :-(

hoping in a month or three to get motorola milestone.

moylan

--
Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[John Gill]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:10 AM, moylan <angryea...@gmail.com> wrote:

2009/12/9 Alan Kennedy <alan.kennedy.name@gmail.com>

Is it possible to run python on Android?

android scripting environment (ase)

it's alpha software.  python on symbian is better at the mo.

http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

I looked at this a while back and the python API was a bit limited, the main problem was that the GUI stuff isn't really exposed.  If that was then porting series 60 python apps would be pretty easy I think.

Another option for python on these things might be mono + ironpython.   I recall seeing someone had mono working, so in theory you can run ironpython on that -- though this sounds too much like hard work for me.

What would be really nice would be to have python running directly on the dalvik virtual machine, but I haven't seen anything on that since the early days of Android.   I seem to recall that the initial dalvik couldn't really support a dynamic language like python.

John 

[Jakub]

Hi Alan,

This may help:
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-scripting.html

Thanks,

Jakub

[Sean O'Donnell]

I have a G1 myself, a friend has the Tattoo, and I have played with
quite a few heros. For me the physical keyboard is a must, if you are
similar, I would try and find out if the Motorola Droid is coming here
any time soon. The Tattoo is kinda small and dinky, which puts its on
screen keyboard at a disadvange to the Hero, it kinda strikes me as a
hero lite, but still a very nice phone.

Proper full on python does not really work on Android, but it does have
a scripting environment which supports it. You cant build full polished
apps with it, but handy little tools are easy. I've seen someone use a
combination of the android api + python to turn their android phone into
a barcode scanner which sends the codes via bluetooth to a desktop.

I dont think python will ever be a first class language on the platform
though, its a very java centric environment.

Sean

[Alan Kennedy]

[Sean]

> I have a G1 myself, a friend has the Tattoo, and I have played with
> quite a few heros. For me the physical keyboard is a must, if you are
> similar, I would try and find out if the Motorola Droid is coming here
> any time soon. The Tattoo is kinda small and dinky, which puts its on
> screen keyboard at a disadvange to the Hero, it kinda strikes me as a
> hero lite, but still a very nice phone.

Thanks for that Sean.

I think I'm going to wait for something like the Motorola Droid to hit
the Irish market.

> Proper full on python does not really work on Android, but it does have
> a scripting environment which supports it. You cant build full polished
> apps with it, but handy little tools are easy. I've seen someone use a
> combination of the android api + python to turn their android phone into
> a barcode scanner which sends the codes via bluetooth to a desktop.

Yeah, I read up on the python support for Android. Basically, it's an
RPC layer, using JSON, that makes RPC calls against the Java API from
cpython.

Presumably that's why the GUI support doesn't work in cpython; how to
enable RPC calls *into* python from the java side, for handling
events, etc.

> I dont think python will ever be a first class language on the platform
> though, its a very java centric environment.

There is a project to get jython running on the Android, but I'm not
sure of it's status. I think that without financial support from
Google, it's unlikely to progress rapidly.

Currently, the only dynamic language that can directly use the Java
API on Android is BeanShell: Ugh!

http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/wiki/FAQ

Alan.

[Alan Kennedy]

[Alan]

> I'll be getting an Android phone in the coming weeks, and will be
> hoping to gather opinions on which is the best available right now. My
> phone provider, Vodafone, only has the HTC Tattoo; Meteor has the HTC
> Hero: I'd switch to Meteor if the Hero is the best option.
>
> Or I'd wait a few weeks/months if there is better option coming down the line.

Well, it appears that waiting until January is the way forward:
Google's new Nexus phone looks very nice, and runs Android 2.1.

Google Phone In January, Unlocked, Thinner Than iPhone
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/google-phone-in-january-unlocked-thinner-than-iphone/

Since it is unlocked, I (presumably) won't have to wait until my
network makes the Nexus available: I can hopefully just buy one direct
from Google, transfer my existing SIM to it, and go.

Regards,

Alan.

[moylan]

but if you want to do python or any other scripting then you will need one with a keyboard as python still won't take a bt keyboard.

theat really leave the original g1, milestone or the geeksphone one.

moylan

2009/12/14 Alan Kennedy <alan.kennedy.name@gmail.com>

Alan.

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[Michael Thompson]

2009/12/14 moylan <angryea...@gmail.com>

but if you want to do python or any other scripting then you will need one with a keyboard as python still won't take a bt keyboard.

theat really leave the original g1, milestone or the geeksphone one.

Or the Nokia N900, running Linux and Python, PySide\PyQt etc.

[angryearthling]

Michael Thompson wrote:
> 2009/12/14 moylan <angryea...@gmail.com
> <mailto:angryea...@gmail.com>>

i'll never buy another nokia. had a 3310, 3650, n70, e61, 770, e61i and
finally an e71. good devices till i got the e71. the last few nokias
have needed firmware updates before they became useable. crashing
mostly. however the e71 added a few new problems.
* the global search took 20 seconds or so to start. before i could do a
search. really annoying as i kept all my notes on my nokias. having to
wait that amount of time 3-4 times a day when the program decided to
reset itself really annoyed me. especially when the previous 'inferior'
search was instant.
* flimsy construction. the early nokias were tanks that could take a
lot of abuse. dropped the e71 less than a metre onto carpet and the
keyboard popped out.
* 2.5mm audio jack on the side was the most awkward stupid place to put
an audio jack. the crappy pop port was easier to use on other devices.

but for me the killer was the camera click. the 3650 was silent. the
n70 added a click that could easily be turned off. the e61i made the
click a little more akward to find to turn off but it worked. this
method worked on the e71 until i updated it in january this year. i
hate noisy devices. especially cameras. i take lots of pics of cats
and cats when they hear that click are gone before you can get a second
photo. i hate when i took a screen shot on site or at work that people
would look to see were the click was from. there was no warning about
nokia adding an unremoveable click. so as far as i am concerned nokia
broke my E400 phone. it was an unusable piece of junk after that click
was turned on. finally gave it to a python developer who does some apps
for symbian. he laughed at my annoyance over the camera click at first
(it only seems to bug about 10% of users) but mentioned how annoying it
was when he took a picture in a book shop of a book that he was
interested in.

will not buy a device over which i have no say in the firmware (no palm
pre fro me withs its mandatory updates). will never trust or recommend
nokia again. pity as i had been looking forward to the n97 or even the
n900.

swapped to my iphone for the rest of this year. bought an android
device (htc hero). prefer android but waiting for one with a keyboard.

most people reckon i was bonkers for having such a stance on the camera
click but i saw it as a stupid law brought in in america and the far
east by knee jerk politicians. both my iphone and hero take silent
pictures. why the hell were nokia doing this? lots of people made
suggestions as to how to turn it off. none of them worked. the only
way would be to reflash it back to an earlier firmware. it would have
taken a few days to set up. i'm not wasting my time fixing something
that should not have been broken. i used to recommend /do free tech
support for nokias. i reckon about 10-12 high end nokias were sold
every year because of me. that's over now. screw nokia.

/rant

moylan

--
Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

[Kevin Noonan]

Hi Alan,

> Currently, the only dynamic language that can directly
> use the Java API on Android is BeanShell: Ugh!

There is another... a patched Clojure apparently runs on Android:

http://riddell.us/tutorial/clojure_android/clojure_android.html

(I'm determined to pick up an Android handset too.)

Ciao,

Kevin.

http://twitter.com/kevin_noonan
http://www.push2cloud.com

[Michael Thompson]

----- Original message -----
> Michael Thompson wrote:
> > 2009/12/14 moylan <angryea...@gmail.com
> > <mailto:angryea...@gmail.com>>
> >
> >        but if you want to do python or any other scripting then you will
> >        need one with a keyboard as python still won't take a bt keyboard.
> >
> >        theat really leave the original g1, milestone or the geeksphone one.
> >
> >
> > Or the Nokia N900, running Linux and Python, PySide\PyQt etc.
> i'll never buy another nokia.  had a 3310, 3650, n70, e61, 770, e61i and
> finally an e71.  good devices till i got the e71.  the last few nokias
> have needed firmware updates before they became useable.  crashing
> mostly.  however the e71 added a few new problems.

> but for me the killer was the camera click.  the 3650 was silent.  the
> n70 added a click that could easily be turned off.  the e61i

snip

> will not buy a device over which i have no say in the firmware (no palm

the n900 is runnimg linux it gives you the most control over the firmware of any phone. You can even write your own camera app.

The phone is also silent.

> swapped to my iphone for the rest of this year.  bought an android
> device (htc hero).  prefer android but waiting for one with a keyboard.

Seems to me that apple and google are keeping a pretty tight hold over the firmware and just letting you run some apps. Maemo isn't totaly free their are some binary blobs but it is the most open phone.

Michael

[Nick Johnson]

Not true at all. If you get an Android developer phone, you can load any firmware you wish onto it.

-Nick

 

Michael

[Juan Hernandez Gomez]

There is native SDK for Android
http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/1.6_r1/index.html

looks some people is porting existing C applications maybe somebody tried with cpython.
I think you'd have to use Java JNI to be able to access many of the Android APIs.

Not having an Android phone yet .... maybe Santa brings one :)

Juan

[Pádraig Brady]

On 14/12/09 21:53, angryearthling wrote:
> but for me the killer was the camera click. the 3650 was silent. the
> n70 added a click that could easily be turned off. the e61i made the
> click a little more akward to find to turn off but it worked. this
> method worked on the e71 until i updated it in january this year.

I've heard that this is the law in Japan at least,
so people can't be taking covert pictures.
Setting the click to a silent wav works on some phones.

cheers,
P�draig.

[AClearn]

> i have it on a htc hero.  really needs a keyboard and bt on android doesn't
> support bt keyboards :-(
>

Has anyone read this? http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters

[Alan Kennedy]

[AClearn]

> Has anyone read this? http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters

Strong opinions; I found the linked slides a little less breathless.

The slides were a very interesting read. There does seem to be a
number of problems with mapping Linux to modern handset devices, with
all their new hardware and software capabilities.

But, hey, it's open source, right? These problems will be resolved.

Alan.

[Alan Kennedy]

[Alan]

> Well, it appears that waiting until January is the way forward:
> Google's new Nexus phone looks very nice, and runs Android 2.1.

> Since it is unlocked, I (presumably) won't have to wait until my

> network makes the Nexus available: I can hopefully just buy one direct
> from Google, transfer my existing SIM to it, and go.

So, now that the Nexus 1 has been released, does anyone have any idea
when it will be available for sale in Ireland? Currently the Google
online store for the phone says "Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not
available in your country.".

http://www.google.com/phone

Regards,

Alan.

[Tim Kersten]

News sites say Spring 2010, whatever that means. :)

Tim ^,^

[Padraig Kitterick]

On 06/01/2010 11:25, Tim Kersten wrote:
> News sites say Spring 2010, whatever that means. :)
>
> Tim ^,^
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Alan Kennedy <alan.kennedy.name
> <http://alan.kennedy.name>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> [Alan]
> > Well, it appears that waiting until January is the way forward:
> > Google's new Nexus phone looks very nice, and runs Android 2.1.
>
> > Since it is unlocked, I (presumably) won't have to wait until my
> > network makes the Nexus available: I can hopefully just buy one
> direct
> > from Google, transfer my existing SIM to it, and go.
>
> So, now that the Nexus 1 has been released, does anyone have any idea
> when it will be available for sale in Ireland? Currently the Google
> online store for the phone says "Sorry, the Nexus One phone is not
> available in your country.".
>
> http://www.google.com/phone
>
> Regards,
>
> Alan.
>
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At the launch event (from the live.gizmodo.com coverage), they only
mentioned initial plans to offer carrier-subsidised phones in the US,
UK, Singapore, and Hong Kong
(http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/googlenexuslive/googlenexus131.jpg). So
I'm not sure it'll officially hit a carrier in Ireland anytime soon. Are
they limiting where they will ship the unlocked version?

Padraig

[AClearn]

> At the launch event (from the live.gizmodo.com coverage), they only
> mentioned initial plans to offer carrier-subsidised phones in the US,
> UK, Singapore, and Hong Kong

You could get one delivered to someone in the North, with the Euro
rate you might even save a few quid.

I bought a freerunner as part of a group purchase from someone in the
south.