about putting translation document on original site
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
Long time no see, How goes it?
I have a suggestion.
Though I started to translate PyMOTW on my blog site,
now, I'm thinking it's better to put translation document on original
site(http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW).
Because, people of any country can find PyMOTW on original site if
they want to read in their language.
Doug, could you put/publish translation document on your original site?
If it's acceptable, I want to consider how to share between originals
and translations.
For example, Fedora wiki has a good translation management system.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki
Now, I'm learning and using to make a document with Sphinx.
I have learned that Sphinx has good functions to motivate writing.
I know PyMOTW is used by Sphinx and that source text is managed on bitbucket.
By using these 2 tools, I think we can solve some document management problem.
Maybe, it's important to define a rule/process/procedure to work individually.
I want to publish translations on original site, as Fedora wiki.
Of course, translators can select put on original site or own site.
I will welcome any comments from you.
--
Tetsuya
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 10, 2010, at 2:18 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
> Hi Doug and folks,
>
> Long time no see, How goes it?
Hello, Tetsuya! Things are going well here, thanks. I hope you're doing well.
> I have a suggestion.
>
> Though I started to translate PyMOTW on my blog site,
> now, I'm thinking it's better to put translation document on original
> site(http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW).
> Because, people of any country can find PyMOTW on original site if
> they want to read in their language.
>
> Doug, could you put/publish translation document on your original site?
> If it's acceptable, I want to consider how to share between originals
> and translations.
I am willing to host the translations, if that's what you want. I'll have to think about how to organize them on the site, but that shouldn't be a problem.
> For example, Fedora wiki has a good translation management system.
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki
>
> Now, I'm learning and using to make a document with Sphinx.
> I have learned that Sphinx has good functions to motivate writing.
> I know PyMOTW is used by Sphinx and that source text is managed on bitbucket.
Let me know if you have any trouble setting up the tools for building the HTML. Here's the info from "pip freeze" in my virtualenv:
$ pip freeze
BeautifulSoup==3.0.8
Jinja2==2.3.1
Paver==1.0.1
Pygments==1.3
Sphinx==0.6.5
distribute==0.6.10
docutils==0.6
mercurial==1.5.1
pygame==1.9.1release
sphinxcontrib-paverutils==1.2
As you see, I haven't upgraded to Sphinx 1.0, yet. That's on my list of projects, but not a high priority at the moment.
>
> By using these 2 tools, I think we can solve some document management problem.
> Maybe, it's important to define a rule/process/procedure to work individually.
When you notify me that you have updates, I could clone your repository and run the build steps on my server to create the HTML and PDF files. I adjust those processes occasionally, so I may send you pull requests once in a while, too.
> I want to publish translations on original site, as Fedora wiki.
> Of course, translators can select put on original site or own site.
That makes sense.
Let me know how you want to proceed,
Doug
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
Thank you for quick response!
I'm enjoying translation life.
Recently, I have translated with Japanese Python User Group's fellows
for Expert Python Programming written by Tarek Ziade.
Do you know Expert Python Programming?
Original book:
https://www.packtpub.com/expert-python-programming/book
Japanese Translation:
http://ascii.asciimw.jp/books/books/detail/978-4-04-868629-7.shtml
> I am willing to host the translations, if that's what you want. I'll have to think about how to organize them on the site, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Great! I was relieved to hear that, so we can do it.
> When you notify me that you have updates, I could clone your repository and run the build steps on my server to create the HTML and PDF files. I adjust those processes occasionally, so I may send you pull requests once in a while, too.
Now, I cloned your original repository as http://bitbucket.org/t2y/pymotw-ja.
I try to consider my translation work flow.
1. I always pull from original repository. The diff are new articles
or fixing with some reason. -> hg pull
2. I have to know if there is any updates.
2-1. There is a new article -> hg update
2-2. There is a diff after I translated that text. -> hg merge
3. I translate with keeping original reST format.
4. I update my translation into pymotw-ja. -> hg commit/push
I always repeat 1-4 cycles while you will update pymotw. :)
However, I'm not sure how to use bitbucket(mercurial) well.
So, let me know if you have a good idea.
--
Tetsuya
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 11, 2010, at 12:35 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> Thank you for quick response!
> I'm enjoying translation life.
>
> Recently, I have translated with Japanese Python User Group's fellows
> for Expert Python Programming written by Tarek Ziade.
> Do you know Expert Python Programming?
>
> Original book:
> https://www.packtpub.com/expert-python-programming/book
> Japanese Translation:
> http://ascii.asciimw.jp/books/books/detail/978-4-04-868629-7.shtml
I've read the original, but didn't realize you were working on a translation. That's great!
>> When you notify me that you have updates, I could clone your repository and run the build steps on my server to create the HTML and PDF files. I adjust those processes occasionally, so I may send you pull requests once in a while, too.
>
> Now, I cloned your original repository as http://bitbucket.org/t2y/pymotw-ja.
> I try to consider my translation work flow.
>
> 1. I always pull from original repository. The diff are new articles
> or fixing with some reason. -> hg pull
> 2. I have to know if there is any updates.
> 2-1. There is a new article -> hg update
> 2-2. There is a diff after I translated that text. -> hg merge
> 3. I translate with keeping original reST format.
> 4. I update my translation into pymotw-ja. -> hg commit/push
>
> I always repeat 1-4 cycles while you will update pymotw. :)
I published a new article last week, and I have another one to go up today. Oh, and I updated the locale article on Friday. It's unusual for me to publish an update without also releasing a new version of the package, so if you want notification you could watch the RSS feed for new releases (http://feeds.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/).
> However, I'm not sure how to use bitbucket(mercurial) well.
> So, let me know if you have a good idea.
I think what you have outlined above will work. One thing I do that you may want to consider is I keep a "clean" clone for pushing to bitbucket and work in another directory. That way if I mess something up with hg commands, I can just delete it and start over from the clean copy.
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
Yes, I'm already watching PyMOTW RSS feed.
So, you can work with your schedule as a priority.
>> However, I'm not sure how to use bitbucket(mercurial) well.
>> So, let me know if you have a good idea.
>
> I think what you have outlined above will work. One thing I do that you may want to consider is I keep a "clean" clone for pushing to bitbucket and work in another directory. That way if I mess something up with hg commands, I can just delete it and start over from the clean copy.
I see. You have to consider/manage both original repository and
translated repositories.
I agree with what you want to do. I will follow when you would think
of a good idea in the future.
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 12, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
>>
>>>> When you notify me that you have updates, I could clone your repository and run the build steps on my server to create the HTML and PDF files. I adjust those processes occasionally, so I may send you pull requests once in a while, too.
>>>
>>> Now, I cloned your original repository as http://bitbucket.org/t2y/pymotw-ja.
>>> I try to consider my translation work flow.
>>>
>>> 1. I always pull from original repository. The diff are new articles
>>> or fixing with some reason. -> hg pull
>>> 2. I have to know if there is any updates.
>>> 2-1. There is a new article -> hg update
>>> 2-2. There is a diff after I translated that text. -> hg merge
>>> 3. I translate with keeping original reST format.
>>> 4. I update my translation into pymotw-ja. -> hg commit/push
>>>
>>> I always repeat 1-4 cycles while you will update pymotw. :)
>>
>> I published a new article last week, and I have another one to go up today. Oh, and I updated the locale article on Friday. It's unusual for me to publish an update without also releasing a new version of the package, so if you want notification you could watch the RSS feed for new releases (http://feeds.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/).
>
> Yes, I'm already watching PyMOTW RSS feed.
> So, you can work with your schedule as a priority.
I also realized you can see the commits as soon as I push them to BitBucket if you "follow" with the BitBucket project, or subscribe to its RSS feed (http://bitbucket.org/dhellmann/pymotw/rss).
>>> However, I'm not sure how to use bitbucket(mercurial) well.
>>> So, let me know if you have a good idea.
>>
>> I think what you have outlined above will work. One thing I do that you may want to consider is I keep a "clean" clone for pushing to bitbucket and work in another directory. That way if I mess something up with hg commands, I can just delete it and start over from the clean copy.
>
> I see. You have to consider/manage both original repository and
> translated repositories.
> I agree with what you want to do. I will follow when you would think
> of a good idea in the future.
Well, that was really more of a suggestion than a request, since you said you're new to hg.
I've thought about URLs, and based on how my site is built I think the simplest thing would be to create a http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW-ja/ section and place everything there in parallel to the English version at http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/. I'll watch for updates in your repository and build a version when I see that you've translated an article. Once we have it looking right, we can publicize it more.
How do you want to handle the articles you have not translated yet? Leave them out of the toctree lists so Sphinx will not generate links to them?
Doug
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I also realized you can see the commits as soon as I push them to BitBucket if you "follow" with the BitBucket project, or subscribe to its RSS feed (http://bitbucket.org/dhellmann/pymotw/rss).
It seems good. I subscribed BitBucket's RSS feed with google reader.
>>> I think what you have outlined above will work. One thing I do that you may want to consider is I keep a "clean" clone for pushing to bitbucket and work in another directory. That way if I mess something up with hg commands, I can just delete it and start over from the clean copy.
>>
>> I see. You have to consider/manage both original repository and
>> translated repositories.
>> I agree with what you want to do. I will follow when you would think
>> of a good idea in the future.
>
> Well, that was really more of a suggestion than a request, since you said you're new to hg.
>
> I've thought about URLs, and based on how my site is built I think the simplest thing would be to create a http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW-ja/ section and place everything there in parallel to the English version at http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/. I'll watch for updates in your repository and build a version when I see that you've translated an article. Once we have it looking right, we can publicize it more.
I think this structure is easy to understand since each repository/URL
is independent. It's no problem if English version has a link to
Japanese version, for example, on
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/about.html#japanese.
> How do you want to handle the articles you have not translated yet? Leave them out of the toctree lists so Sphinx will not generate links to them?
I think it's better to show only translated articles on PyMOTW-ja
page. However, it's OK the English articles are shown if untranslated
articles. I guess the untranslated English articles are shown when
you'll simply get and build PyMOTW-ja repository. As long as I
properly pull from original repository, this method also works well, I
think.
A short time ago, I pushed translated base64 into pymotw-ja
repository. You can try in practice which method is better.
Tetsuya
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've thought about URLs, and based on how my site is built I think the simplest thing would be to create a http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW-ja/ section and place everything there in parallel to the English version at http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/. I'll watch for updates in your repository and build a version when I see that you've translated an article. Once we have it looking right, we can publicize it more.
>
> I think this structure is easy to understand since each repository/URL
> is independent. It's no problem if English version has a link to
> Japanese version, for example, on
> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/about.html#japanese.
Right, I'll add those links once I publish the translation.
>> How do you want to handle the articles you have not translated yet? Leave them out of the toctree lists so Sphinx will not generate links to them?
>
> I think it's better to show only translated articles on PyMOTW-ja
> page. However, it's OK the English articles are shown if untranslated
> articles. I guess the untranslated English articles are shown when
> you'll simply get and build PyMOTW-ja repository. As long as I
> properly pull from original repository, this method also works well, I
> think.
I can see benefits to both options. I'll leave the choice up to you, and just build whatever you have in the repository. :-)
> A short time ago, I pushed translated base64 into pymotw-ja
> repository. You can try in practice which method is better.
I'll try to do that some time in the next 24 hours.
Doug
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
> A short time ago, I pushed translated base64 into pymotw-ja
> repository. You can try in practice which method is better.
I've done a build from your repository and uploaded the files to my site. You can see the base64 article at http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW-ja/base64/index.html#module-base64
I made a few changes to build rules (default paths, etc.), so I'll send you a pull request once I have them on bitbucket. I also still need to link to the new version from the main page, but I'll wait to hear back from you about how the experimental results look.
Doug
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
>
> On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
>
>> A short time ago, I pushed translated base64 into pymotw-ja
>> repository. You can try in practice which method is better.
>
> I've done a build from your repository and uploaded the files to my site. You can see the base64 article at http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW-ja/base64/index.html#module-base64
I confirmed. It's pretty good. :)
> I made a few changes to build rules (default paths, etc.), so I'll send you a pull request once I have them on bitbucket. I also still need to link to the new version from the main page, but I'll wait to hear back from you about how the experimental results look.
Thank you for patch. I merged your changes into pymotw-ja.
I looked the experimental results. Also both index page and contents
page work well.
At this point, it seems good the way it is.
You can change Japanese translation link from my blog to your
PyMOTW-ja on http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/about.html#japanese if
you don't have any problem.
I will update translated articles on my blog within 1 weeks.
Tetsuya
Doug Hellmann
I think I'll wait for you to update a few more articles before I change the link and publicize it. That way when people go to check it out, they'll have more pages to look at.
Speaking of that, you may want to start by translating the home page (sphinx/templates/web/index.html) and adding your name as translator. :-)
Doug
Tetsuya MORIMOTO
I see. I'll update more articles soon.
I think translation efficiency is improve by using Sphinx and Mercurial.
> Speaking of that, you may want to start by translating the home page (sphinx/templates/web/index.html) and adding your name as translator. :-)
Yeah! I'll also translate some index.html so that a visitor realize
without thinking that PyMOTW-ja is Japanese translation page. :)
Tetsuya
Doug Hellmann
On Jul 13, 2010, at 11:10 AM, Tetsuya MORIMOTO wrote:
>> I think I'll wait for you to update a few more articles before I change the link and publicize it. That way when people go to check it out, they'll have more pages to look at.
>
> I see. I'll update more articles soon.
> I think translation efficiency is improve by using Sphinx and Mercurial.
You're welcome to use Sphinx to generate HTML to post to your own site, too, you know. I can help with the template, or you could just use the output of "make html" (written to PyMOTW/docs/).
>
>> Speaking of that, you may want to start by translating the home page (sphinx/templates/web/index.html) and adding your name as translator. :-)
>
> Yeah! I'll also translate some index.html so that a visitor realize
> without thinking that PyMOTW-ja is Japanese translation page. :)
Good idea. :-)
Doug