Thank You, Chris!

[Igor]

I just watched a video from PyCon 2012, where Chris McDonough were
introducing Pdb, and i REALLY liked this presentation!

I'm still new in Python, so i felt my requirement in a debugger for
just a few times, but i definitely wanted to dig into that, and here
we are -- best introduction ever in video format :D
So thank you very much, Chris, It's always a pleasure to listen to you
and learn.

If somebody haven't seen it yet, as well as tons of other talks from
the recent PyCon, i'm inviting you to visit this page
http://pyvideo.org/category/17/pycon-us-2012

Also, in my opinion, there were a couple of especially remarkable
speeches, given by David Beazley and Guido Van Rossum:
http://pyvideo.org/video/659/keynote-david-beazley
http://pyvideo.org/video/956/keynote-guido-van-rossum

Have fun!

[Thomas G. Willis]

yeah that filled in a lot of gaps for me. It's too bad he didn't have time to get into emacs pdbtrack. I've been wanting that for a while, but I have to deal with further complexities due to how the appengine sdk manages stdout and stderror.

[Igor]

Oh, that's a good point. You know, I've heard a lot about emacs and
vim but never used them. Can you please give me some advices, why
would i want to use one of them and maybe a link to starter's guide in
using it for python development?

[Thomas G. Willis]

It's strictly a matter of preference which editor/ide you choose.  try them all and see which one you feel the most **productive** in. There's plenty of information spanning decades on the internet for vim and emacs. And there's plenty of high quality ide's for python now both free and non-free.

It's all about productivity and the journey towards it.

[Benjamin Sims]

As Thomas, says, experiment and find what you like. Personally I find knowing vim has its advantages:

- available on pretty much every *nix system ever, very handy if you have to SSH into a server to fix something

- allows you to work without using the mouse, moving through files quickly and making edits

- good extensions available to help with writing Python

The downside is that some people find it hard at first to get the hang of a modal editor, but try the tutorial and that should help.

Currently I use an IDE (PyCharm) with vim key bindings, which feels like a good mix for me.

Ben

2012/3/19 Thomas G. Willis <tom.w...@gmail.com>

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[Simon Yarde]

The general view is that emacs is the more-powerful but slightly harder one, vim is the simpler more focussed one. Both good. I chose vim. This might help http://www.vim.org/about.php

To answer your questions..

If you've never used a text editor in the terminal before, the official tutorial is the best for vim. Just type at the command-line:

$ vimtutor

Vim is already highly-optimised for python dev, for example auto-indenting and wrapping comments and strings etc, so you can just start developing without having to do anything. However, it can for example be tweaked in many ways to make things better, particularly thinking of whatever template system you use with Pyramid.

Feel free to try out my minimal vim profile tweaked for jinja2, some PEP8 stuff, better line-wraps with version-control, and the solarized colour scheme (http://ethanschoonover.com/solarized) which is very comfortable - especially in iTerm2 re millions-of-colours, but perfectly acceptable in 256 colours: https://github.com/simonyarde/.vim

Why would you want to use them for Pyramid dev? For starters, how about executing commands from within the editor, listing files and directories etc, building your Sphinx docs with:

:! make html

Cmd-p is my personal favourite key-command for auto-completing var names as it almost completely eliminates typos and allows you work very fast.

Best, S

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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group.

[Mike Orr]

2012/3/19 Benjamin Sims <benjam...@gmail.com>:

> As Thomas, says, experiment and find what you like. Personally I find
> knowing vim has its advantages:
>

> - allows you to work without using the mouse, moving through files quickly
> and making edits

Also, vi(m) is designed for typists, so the most common editing
functions are at or near the home row without pressing a modifier.

I try the various IDEs and emacs and Kate every year or so, but I
always come back to vim. Usually because of a syntax highlighting or
auto-whitespace issue, or because I miss vim's efficient
search-and-replace.

> - available on pretty much every *nix system ever, very handy if you have to
> SSH into a server to fix something

The UNIX mantra is, "You must know enough vi to make basic changes to
a configuration file and get out of vi."

> - good extensions available to help with writing Python

I don't know about this. Which extensions are you using? I have the
Python syntax pack and the Python-extension pack. (The latter allows
you to write vim functions in Python, but I've never found a use for
it.)

> The downside is that some people find it hard at first to get the hang of a
> modal editor, but try the tutorial and that should help.

Yes, it has a learning curve. Also, its GUI is not quite modern. It
has the expected menu bar and toolbar, but you can't open multiple
windows. You can split the window but it's done in a CURSES-like way.

--
Mike Orr <slugg...@gmail.com>

[Igor]

No, no, no... vim isn't for me, that's for sure! :D

I'm using SublimeText 2 right now for my web-dev studies, and i'm
totally comfortable with it at the moment, it has all i want for now,
including code completion. But it's not free and not open, so i wanted
to try something else and I think I found useful link about Emacs for
Python here:
https://github.com/gabrielelanaro/emacs-for-python

[Thomas G. Willis]

I see that the prices have gone up a bit, but the peepcode screencasts are still a good value. You may consider taking these for a spin. 

https://peepcode.com/products/meet-emacs

https://peepcode.com/products/smash-into-vim-i

https://peepcode.com/products/smash-into-vim-ii

The cool thing about these editors is you pretty much build what you need, they are both quite malleable and can bend to your will. VIM has the upper hand for being installed on damn near every *nix machine and if you had to choose between the 2, it would still be of benefit to know your way around VIM, i'm an emacs user, but I can get enough done in VIM to be pretty productive on any machine.

Again, you would do better to focus on what makes you more productive and constantly thinking how you could become more productive. The tools you choose should help you with that, but not every tool works for everyone. 

You may want to read this as well. FWIW. 

http://www.amazon.com/Productive-Programmer-Theory-Practice-OReilly/dp/0596519788/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332202032&sr=8-1

[tonthon]

A few vim enhancements that you could find usefull :

for pylint users :
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=891

TaskList to list fixmes and todos:
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2607

Taglist as a source code browser :
http://vim-taglist.sourceforge.net

And if you don't have vim compiled with the python option, you'll
appreciate to compile it.

Le 19/03/2012 19:29, Mike Orr a �crit :