Replacing Freenode?

[Jonathan Vanasco]

Are there any plans to replace Freenode, in light of the recent developments?

See:
    https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html
    https://libera.chat/

[Joshua Drake]

Without getting into the politics of it...

OFTC could be a good choice. It is what Software in the Public Interest uses which is behind such stalwarts as Debian, Libreoffice (in the U.S.) and PostgreSQL.Org

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[Steve Piercy]

We have not discussed it. It's a matter of inertia and the effort required to move official Pylons Project support channels to something else. No one wants to do that work as a volunteer.

It is fine if someone takes the initiative to establish an unofficial community-driven Pylons Project channel on whatever they like, Discord, Slack, Gitter, carrier pigeon...

--steve

On 5/19/21 9:07 AM, Joshua Drake wrote:
> Without getting into the politics of it...
>
> OFTC could be a good choice. It is what Software in the Public Interest uses which is behind such stalwarts as Debian, Libreoffice (in the U.S.) and PostgreSQL.Org
>

> On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:24 AM 'Jonathan Vanasco' via pylons-discuss <pylons-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:pylons-...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Are there any plans to replace Freenode, in light of the recent developments?
>
> See:

>     https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html <https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html>
>     https://libera.chat/ <https://libera.chat/>

>
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[Jonathan Vanasco]

just to be clear, my main concern is the majority of staff have quit -- so reliability is likely to be an issue. the only one I have not seen an announcement from is their infrastructure lead. 

[Steve Piercy]

Assuming the worst, that freenode pushes up the daisies, there is still inertia and volunteer effort needed to move to something else. 1-2-3-not it! I'll miss IRC, but I can let it go.

If someone wants to take on the responsibility to migrate to something else, I'm happy to help out by sending out tweets that someone else composes. We'd need consensus from maintainers. Websites and docs would need to be updated, too. It's not an insignificant amount of work.

A few of us have been using Keybase as a community-based support channel. I am not suggesting to make it an official Pylons Project support channel.

https://keybase.io/team/pylons

--steve

On 5/20/21 8:55 AM, 'Jonathan Vanasco' via pylons-discuss wrote:
> just to be clear, my main concern is the majority of staff have quit -- so reliability is likely to be an issue. the only one I have not seen an announcement from is their infrastructure lead. 
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 4:11:44 PM UTC-4 Steve Piercy wrote:
>
> We have not discussed it. It's a matter of inertia and the effort required to move official Pylons Project support channels to something else. No one wants to do that work as a volunteer.
>
> It is fine if someone takes the initiative to establish an unofficial community-driven Pylons Project channel on whatever they like, Discord, Slack, Gitter, carrier pigeon...
>
> --steve
>
>
> On 5/19/21 9:07 AM, Joshua Drake wrote:
> > Without getting into the politics of it...
> >
> > OFTC could be a good choice. It is what Software in the Public Interest uses which is behind such stalwarts as Debian, Libreoffice (in the U.S.) and PostgreSQL.Org
> >
> > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 7:24 AM 'Jonathan Vanasco' via pylons-discuss <pylons-...@googlegroups.com <mailto:pylons-...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Are there any plans to replace Freenode, in light of the recent developments?
> >
> > See:

> >     https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html <https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html> <https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html <https://boingboing.net/2021/05/19/freenode-irc-staff-quit-after-new-owner-seizes-control.html>>
> >     https://libera.chat/ <https://libera.chat/> <https://libera.chat/ <https://libera.chat/>>

> >
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[Sean Hammond]

I can no longer access the #pyramid channel because the IRC client that I use (IRCCloud) has been banned from Freenode:

https://twitter.com/IRCCloud/status/1404153550159159298

#python moved to Libera: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202106/goodbye_freenode.html

[Steve Piercy]

On 6/14/21 10:36 AM, Sean Hammond wrote:
> I can no longer access the #pyramid channel because the IRC client that I use (IRCCloud) has been banned from Freenode:
>

> https://twitter.com/IRCCloud/status/1404153550159159298 <https://twitter.com/IRCCloud/status/1404153550159159298>
>
> #python moved to Libera: https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202106/goodbye_freenode.html <https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202106/goodbye_freenode.html>

As a temporary workaround, there is a web client.

https://webchat.freenode.net/#pyramid

Meanwhile, my offer to support someone who will be the champion to do the necessary bits still stands. Think of the glory!

--steve

[Andrew Martin]

What are the necessary bits at this point, Steve?

-andrew

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[Joshua Drake]

There is a #pylons and @pylons-discuss on libera.chat

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pylons-discuss/A4562A09-1F25-4BBC-99D4-351CCB9151D1%40gmail.com.

[Steve Piercy]

On 6/14/21 12:56 PM, Andrew Martin wrote:
> What are the necessary bits at this point, Steve?

https://groups.google.com/g/pylons-discuss/c/Lm5f6jx0SHM/m/B4OeetvsAAAJ

But to elaborate:

1. Get consensus from maintainers.

These individuals could be classified by their recent activity. The following are their usernames on GitHub or PyPI. This may be a challenge as we are scattered across IRC, Keybase (https://keybase.io/team/pylons), and this discussion group. Regardless the discussion must be open and public as much as practical.

Make good faith effort to achieve consensus (currently active maintainer):
stevepiercy
xistence
mmerickel
zupo
ergo
gawel

Invite to participate in the decision, but don't expect response (formerly active maintainer):
chrism
tseaver
ericoandrei
miohtama
crooksey
signum
agronholm
ianb
cdent
haypo
bbangert
blaflamme
chrism
nouri
iElectric
rockyburt
goodwillcoding
tr_h
danjac
lambacck
fschulze
cguardia
wichert
chrisrossi
J1m

2. Set up the service.

Lots of details omitted until service is decided by consensus.

3. Update active repos.

A quick search reveals 100 instances, most of which are not active or maintained. I'd say if the repo has not been updated in the last 5 years, it can be put in the pile of "round-to-its". Perhaps only 3 years? That would be another question for the active maintainers to decide.

https://github.com/search?q=org%3APylons+freenode&type=code

4. Draft announcements.

- Emails to pylons-discuss (https://groups.google.com/g/pylons-discuss) and pylons-devel (https://groups.google.com/g/pylons-devel).
- Tweet from @PylonsProject
- Prepare message for #pyramid and #pylons on Freenode, but do not post.

5. Update greeting on existing #pyramid and #pylons channels on Freenode to move to new service.

This should be last because Freenode is banning everyone and everything that expresses a mouse fart of dissent.

6. Other?

I may have missed something, but this is a good start.

--steve

[Bert JW Regeer]

Freenode imploded on itself. They dropped all registrations and all channels. It’s a free for all. As of right now I am not on IRC anymore, nor have I been in a long time.

I can’t speak for others, but looking at the logs I saved from before I destroyed the VM that was running my bouncer, the IRC channel hadn’t seen action in a good while.

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