Pyramid advocacy, list of high profile sites?

[Iain Duncan]

Wondering if such a thing is around? I am stuck doing a pitch to a committee on why we are using Pyramid and not Drupal, and it would be helpful to have some hard numbers and/or lists of high profile users to go along with my material. SQLAlchemy has such a thing on their site, might be worth having if there isn't one already. ( googling it didn't find one, but it could be 'that egyptian problem' again. ;-) 

Thanks

Iain

[Michael Merickel]

Well there's a big list of logos on http://www.pylonsproject.org/

Iain

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[Chris McDonough]

On Tue, 2012-02-14 at 19:47 -0600, Michael Merickel wrote:
> Well there's a big list of logos on http://www.pylonsproject.org/

Not all of these actually run Pyramid, but yes, some do.

Yes, it would be nice to have such a list. Any volunteers to help
compile and maintain the list?

- C

>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 6:44 PM, Iain Duncan
> <iaindun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wondering if such a thing is around? I am stuck doing a pitch
> to a committee on why we are using Pyramid and not Drupal, and
> it would be helpful to have some hard numbers and/or lists of
> high profile users to go along with my material. SQLAlchemy
> has such a thing on their site, might be worth having if there
> isn't one already. ( googling it didn't find one, but it could
> be 'that egyptian problem' again. ;-)
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Iain
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[Iain Duncan]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Michael Merickel <mmer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well there's a big list of logos on http://www.pylonsproject.org/

i can watch logos go by a few at a time, but cant find a link to a normal list. That would be a lot more useful in page format, or am I missing something?

thanks

Iain

[Iain Duncan]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Chris McDonough <chr...@plope.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2012-02-14 at 19:47 -0600, Michael Merickel wrote:
> Well there's a big list of logos on http://www.pylonsproject.org/

Not all of these actually run Pyramid, but yes, some do.

Yes, it would be nice to have such a list.  Any volunteers to help
compile and maintain the list?

I would definitely help with this, improving the Pyramid advocacy situation is a big priority for our business right now as we are targeting companies who's other option is typically Drupal (and I've done boatloads of Drupal so I know how to compare them well. Ugh). Not sure how you want this tackled, but I would  definitely help.

Iain

[Chris McDonough]

Basically, I'd just like to suggest that someone do it whatever way they
please then get out of their way. I don't have any particular
presentation suggestions, but we can make our resources available to
present the data in whatever form necessary (the pylonsproject.org
website, the github wiki, whatever).

- C

[Graham Higgins]

If your advocacy embraces Pylons, there's ckan.org.

[Blaise Laflamme]

I think we should collect them along with their logo in a good format (and normalize them for presentation) and with a quote or some description if possible. Then we should roll them up on the web site, that'll become a one page teaser site soon, and linked back to a dedicated page on the doc site under pylonsrtd project. I can help with this as it's kind of mandatory to have this information, and would definitely accept any help given from Iain or others.

[Iain Duncan]

i think the most important thing here is to get the word out to people about how important it is to Pyramid to have good advocacy, and then make it easy for them to add their sites. The main issue in all these sorts of things is that people can't be bothered as they don't realize how much it will help Pyramid. Not sure what the best way to do that is though!

Iain

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Blaise Laflamme <bla...@laflamme.org> wrote:

I think we should collect them along with their logo in a good format (and normalize them for presentation) and with a quote or some description if possible. Then we should roll them up on the web site, that'll become a one page teaser site soon, and linked back to a dedicated page on the doc site under pylonsrtd project. I can help with this as it's kind of mandatory to have this information, and would definitely accept any help given from Iain or others.

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[Steve Piercy]

On 2/14/12 at 4:44 PM, iaindun...@gmail.com (Iain Duncan) pronounced:

>Wondering if such a thing is around? I am stuck doing a pitch to a
>committee on why we are using Pyramid and not Drupal

"It's a trap!"

Seriously, any discussion that includes, "Why are you using X,
and not Y?" should be followed with, "Y must be useful,
otherwise you would not suggest it. Why do you think we should
use Y?" It's a useful tactic to learn more about the client and
their project requirements.

I welcome these discussions and never disparage any suggested
tool. Yet I find comparison of tools to be tedious,
unproductive, and, frankly, ignored. Ultimately the client will
hire you for your competency and professionalism, not for what
technology you use.

I could spread myself really thin and learn a little bit about a
lot of technologies, or I could focus on only a few technologies
and be an highly effective expert and do that well. Now if the
client has an expert in Y, then it may be a good idea to
collaborate on a small pilot project to see how we could work
together through the use of APIs. Sometimes the best way to
deal with the "Why X, not Y" question is to say that you are
technologically agnostic and welcome the opportunity to work
with experts in Y.

--steve

--steve

[Blaise Laflamme]

I agree people should know how important it is, however we also need some screening and make sure submissions have the required info, formats, etc. I think it's like the way we endorse pyramid packages, if they don't meet the project requirements they won't be listed as «official» on the main site/docs. It's mandatory for an overall consistency and quality with the project philosophy, goals, brand, design, etc.

[Jonathan Vanasco]

i wrote a long response yesterday, and it seems it didn't post. f'ing
google.

The Pylons list is here:

http://wiki.pylonshq.com/display/pylonscommunity/Sites+Using+Pylons

For your purposes I would just talk about Pyramid being the new
versions of Pylons. There are plenty of large sites in there proving
it's battle tested and "enterprise".

Aside from that, I would focus on the low cost-to-change and cost-to-
iterate that Pylons offers your group. and that that your team feels
they can deliver something of higher quality on a faster timeline than
on Drupal.

I'd note that Pyramid/Pylons is aimed at developers and gives you the
tools to rapidly iterate on the product, along with the power to make
sweeping changes at a very low level -- both on the app and the
database.

I'd also note that Drupal is architected for non-developers to
manage. It tries to do everything out-of-the-box and everything else
through admin interfaces to "modules", which means you have to write
and integrate modules to their various hooks. It's a complete pain in
the ass, and while the tiny non-profits that use it are ridiculously
happy (and should be)... all but one 'enterprise' user I know of look
at it as a huge mistake and have been jumping off.

One of my consulting clients is a medium size publisher and migrating
from Drupal to Django right row -- and being on drupal held them back
for a few years. A huge cost to change and even larger to do tests/
qa. An example is tat even the smallest things like getting a
Facebook/Twitter button on an Article would take 3-4 days to
implement. Why? Aside from not having a MVC/MT/etc system that had
nice templates and workflow, it's a mess of "theme" files that have a
few "container" files ( which barely go beyond <body></body> ), and
then lots of hooks and spaghetti code to fill the body tags.

One of the other issues they had with Drupal is the Database structure
is far from optimized and can often jam up. Due to the essence of how
drupal works, they couldn't rewrite the database queries or modify the
table structure into something that is in-line with their usage --
they're stuck with an off the shelf implementation that does things in
a particular way... so they have 20+ mysql queries to generate a
page, whereas with pyramid they might have 4 database queries... and
typically cache the results of 2 into memory.

[Iain Duncan]

Thanks Jon. I have plenty of ammunition, having used Drupal extensively in the past when I needed the work. I'm well aware of it's warts ( oh so painfully aware! ). 

It's mostly that I think I need to back that up with some hard data too, ie: these sites are using Pyramid, it's for real!

thanks

Iain

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