ANN: Documentation Wiki Launched

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James Gardner

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Mar 18, 2007, 10:10:00 AM3/18/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com, python-...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,

I'm pleased to announce the launch of a new wiki for Pylons
documentation where we would encourage you to contribute any articles or
information which you would usually post on the current Pylons
Trac-based wiki. The new site can be found here:

http://docs.pythonweb.org

The new wiki is much more powerful than the current one and allows users
to create their own accounts, comment on or improve existing articles as
well as create new ones. It also allows content to be structured in a
hierarchy so that similar documents can be grouped together. These
features should facilitate us in creating a lively documentation community.

In addition to the wiki there is also a new mailing list for those who
are interested in discussing where we want to take the documentation
efforts in future. You can join this at:

http://groups.google.com/group/python-web-docs

Whilst we think the new wiki is going to be really useful to Pylons
users we are also aware that many of the components used by Pylons are
also used in other projects such as TurboGears so rather than setting up
the wiki as a Pylons-only wiki we have set it up with the intention of
it being used by the whole Python web community. We also hope to import
existing "official" project documentation from the various projects into
the wiki so that we can provide a single point of call for all relevant
documentation. For this reason the site is hosted on a neutral domain
rather than on the Pylons site and we've already started to get in touch
with people from other Python web communities to encourage their
involvement.

Feel free to browse the new wiki and sign up for an account. Each user
can also create their own page so you can upload a photo and write a
description about yourself and the Python web software you use. You can
see a few of us have already created our pages here:

http://docs.pythonweb.org/browsepeople.action

There is already quite a lot of content beginning to form on the wiki
but we would like to see more! If you have an interest in a particular
aspect of Pylons, now is the time to contribute an article or if you
would like to help transfer the existing Trac wiki content to the new
site that would be appreciated too. The Pylons Cookbook and
Documentation Guidelines might be good places to start browsing:

http://docs.pythonweb.org/display/pysckbook/Home
http://docs.pythonweb.org/display/pysckbook/Documentation+Guidelines

Cheers,

James


primco

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Mar 19, 2007, 12:08:35 AM3/19/07
to pylons-discuss
So why the abbreviation pys for pylons? It was confusing when i saw
the url and thought it was some other python project. I just don't
understand why you have to shorten it -- specially on something that
needs to be newbie friendly. Is it too late to change it to something
like pylonscookbook?

davep

Ben Bangert

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Mar 19, 2007, 12:55:23 AM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
On Mar 18, 2007, at 9:08 PM, primco wrote:

> So why the abbreviation pys for pylons? It was confusing when i saw
> the url and thought it was some other python project. I just don't
> understand why you have to shorten it -- specially on something that
> needs to be newbie friendly. Is it too late to change it to something
> like pylonscookbook?

It seemed like an 'ok' abbreviation for pylonscookbook. I didn't
think it'd cause any problems to abbreviate it slightly. But yet, at
this point it does appear to late to change it, though its fairly
easy to move pages between Spaces... so perhaps we can change it.

- Ben

primco

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Mar 19, 2007, 1:25:34 PM3/19/07
to pylons-discuss

well, i'd like to know what others think. seems like a critical place
to be un-obscure.

davep

Ian Bicking

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Mar 19, 2007, 1:44:22 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com

It's a weird acronym to me. pylonscb would be more reasonable, or
pcookbook, or pylonscooking, or something... there's no decent way to
abbreviate "pylons".


--
Ian Bicking | ia...@colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org
| Write code, do good | http://topp.openplans.org/careers

Alexandre CONRAD

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Mar 19, 2007, 1:54:23 PM3/19/07
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> It's a weird acronym to me. pylonscb would be more reasonable, or
> pcookbook, or pylonscooking, or something... there's no decent way to
> abbreviate "pylons".

"pyl" ?

--
Alexandre CONRAD

Kevin Monceaux

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Mar 19, 2007, 2:59:12 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
Fellow Pylons Enthusiasts,

On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 02:10:00PM +0000, James Gardner wrote:

> I'm pleased to announce the launch of a new wiki for Pylons
> documentation where we would encourage you to contribute any articles
> or information which you would usually post on the current Pylons
> Trac-based wiki.

I'm very happy to see some additional Pylons documentation. I've been
trying out both TurboGears and Pylons. There are a few things I like
better about Pylons than TurboGears but I've been working mostly with
TurboGears because of the available TG documentation and for TG widgets.
It looks like Pylons is improving in both areas. There are a couple of
things I'm wondering about:

Is choosing a J2EE based wiki really a good way to promote python web
development? Wouldn't a python based wiki be a better choice? And, if
primarily for Pylons wouldn't a Pylons based wiki be an even better
choice?

I get the Pylons name and logo but am I the only one that immediately
thinks of Land of the Lost instead of electricity when I hear the term
"Pylons"?

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla!!!

Bob Ippolito

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Mar 19, 2007, 2:14:23 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
On 3/19/07, Kevin Monceaux <Ke...@rawfeddogs.net> wrote:
>
> Fellow Pylons Enthusiasts,
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 02:10:00PM +0000, James Gardner wrote:
>
> > I'm pleased to announce the launch of a new wiki for Pylons
> > documentation where we would encourage you to contribute any articles
> > or information which you would usually post on the current Pylons
> > Trac-based wiki.
>
> I'm very happy to see some additional Pylons documentation. I've been
> trying out both TurboGears and Pylons. There are a few things I like
> better about Pylons than TurboGears but I've been working mostly with
> TurboGears because of the available TG documentation and for TG widgets.
> It looks like Pylons is improving in both areas. There are a couple of
> things I'm wondering about:
>
> Is choosing a J2EE based wiki really a good way to promote python web
> development? Wouldn't a python based wiki be a better choice? And, if
> primarily for Pylons wouldn't a Pylons based wiki be an even better
> choice?
>
> I get the Pylons name and logo but am I the only one that immediately
> thinks of Land of the Lost instead of electricity when I hear the term
> "Pylons"?

My first association with Pylons is always with Starcraft. The Protoss
race builds Pylons.. and without having a Pylon first you can't build
*anything*. Pylons provide the necessary power (Psi) to all of the
infrastructure around them.

http://www.battle.net/images/battle/scc/protoss/pix/general/basic02.jpg

-bob

Alberto Valverde

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Mar 19, 2007, 2:17:28 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com

On Mar 19, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Kevin Monceaux wrote:

>
> Fellow Pylons Enthusiasts,
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 02:10:00PM +0000, James Gardner wrote:
>
>> I'm pleased to announce the launch of a new wiki for Pylons
>> documentation where we would encourage you to contribute any articles
>> or information which you would usually post on the current Pylons
>> Trac-based wiki.
>
> I'm very happy to see some additional Pylons documentation. I've been
> trying out both TurboGears and Pylons. There are a few things I like
> better about Pylons than TurboGears but I've been working mostly with
> TurboGears because of the available TG documentation and for TG
> widgets.
> It looks like Pylons is improving in both areas. There are a
> couple of
> things I'm wondering about:
>
> Is choosing a J2EE based wiki really a good way to promote python web
> development? Wouldn't a python based wiki be a better choice?
> And, if
> primarily for Pylons wouldn't a Pylons based wiki be an even better
> choice?

Well, I guess it all boils down to the choice of a tool for a job. If
the tool fits well it's purpose and it's already developed and
usable, then who cares what technology is powering it behind the scenes?

Something positive can be said for Python for sure: how nicely it
integrates with most languages. The syntax coloring is powered by
pygments running under Jython :)

Alberto

Ian Bicking

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Mar 19, 2007, 2:23:08 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
Kevin Monceaux wrote:
> Fellow Pylons Enthusiasts,
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2007 at 02:10:00PM +0000, James Gardner wrote:
>
>> I'm pleased to announce the launch of a new wiki for Pylons
>> documentation where we would encourage you to contribute any articles
>> or information which you would usually post on the current Pylons
>> Trac-based wiki.
>
> I'm very happy to see some additional Pylons documentation. I've been
> trying out both TurboGears and Pylons. There are a few things I like
> better about Pylons than TurboGears but I've been working mostly with
> TurboGears because of the available TG documentation and for TG widgets.
> It looks like Pylons is improving in both areas. There are a couple of
> things I'm wondering about:
>
> Is choosing a J2EE based wiki really a good way to promote python web
> development? Wouldn't a python based wiki be a better choice? And, if
> primarily for Pylons wouldn't a Pylons based wiki be an even better
> choice?

I'm not psyched about a closed-source wiki, but I think worrying about
self-hosting is largely a distraction. Pylons isn't a wiki project, and
it's not a documentation project. It's a project that needs
documentation. Worrying about promotion in every tool used is a good
way to get hopelessly distracted. Good docs are way more important for
Pylons and all the associated projects than self-hosting; and actually
using other products is a good way to keep people from being distracted
with tool building, which is easy to do when you are trying to document
something, especially if you don't love writing docs.

Ben Bangert

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Mar 19, 2007, 2:24:00 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com, Kevin Monceaux
On Mar 19, 2007, at 11:59 AM, Kevin Monceaux wrote:

> I'm very happy to see some additional Pylons documentation. I've been
> trying out both TurboGears and Pylons. There are a few things I like
> better about Pylons than TurboGears but I've been working mostly with
> TurboGears because of the available TG documentation and for TG
> widgets.
> It looks like Pylons is improving in both areas. There are a
> couple of
> things I'm wondering about:
>
> Is choosing a J2EE based wiki really a good way to promote python web
> development? Wouldn't a python based wiki be a better choice?
> And, if
> primarily for Pylons wouldn't a Pylons based wiki be an even better
> choice?

Sure, and we'd love to see one. But between my full-time job, family,
contract work, and open-source work on Pylons code itself.... I
personally have zero additional time to launch a Pylons wiki-project.
Using Confluence has given me some time to reflect on exactly the
feature-set I do want in a wiki-type system, so someday when I do
have time to work on such a project I'll know exactly what to put in.

The TurboGears folks launched a project called Docudu with a similar
goal of providing documentation, a wiki of sorts, etc. which
apparently ran out of steam as there weren't enough people willing to
commit time to develop it.

Given the choice of working on a project and it not going anywhere
fast, vs having something that works *now*, we choose now. The
primary features I wanted were almost possible with MoinMoin, but
would require a decent amount of footwork which no one had the time
to do. If someone else wants to do all the work and setup a system
I'll be happy to go over the requirements, but I doubt we'll have the
resources to commit to such an endeavor at the moment. I did make
sure that Confluence has enough Export options so that when such a
Python/Pylons based system come into existence, we can switch to it.

On a side-note, thanks to some herculean effort by Phil Jenvey, we
have a Python based syntax highlighter (Pygments) running under
Jython in Confluence.

> I get the Pylons name and logo but am I the only one that immediately
> thinks of Land of the Lost instead of electricity when I hear the term
> "Pylons"?

Not sure, I didn't realize Land of the Lost references Pylons?

Cheers,
Ben

Kevin Monceaux

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Mar 19, 2007, 4:13:56 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com

Pylons were an integral part of the Land of the Lost. They controlled
just about everything from the weather to time. Oddly, I wasn't able to
find a good picture of a Pylon on the 'net. The only one I could find
is at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_the_Lost_(1974_TV_series)_geography_and_technology#Pylons

One can find a picture and a little info on Pylons at the link above.
The picture is not very good.

Cliff Wells

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Mar 19, 2007, 3:25:05 PM3/19/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 11:24 -0700, Ben Bangert wrote:

> > I get the Pylons name and logo but am I the only one that immediately
> > thinks of Land of the Lost instead of electricity when I hear the term
> > "Pylons"?
>
> Not sure, I didn't realize Land of the Lost references Pylons?

Slay-stack?

Cliff

primco

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Mar 20, 2007, 2:57:34 AM3/20/07
to pylons-discuss
anybody about to take a whack at trac or reStructuredText markup to
confluence converter?

I found this http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/CONFEXT/Trac+Importer

It at least has a start with the syntax.

Davep

James Gardner

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Mar 20, 2007, 5:21:51 AM3/20/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
Hi Dave,

Once again Philip Jenvey is on the case and has implemented a prototype
rst plugin which currently generates HTML but not PDF.

There isn't a huge amount of Trac content on the Trac wiki (some is rst
anyway) so it will probably be easier just to move the remaining
articles across manually and tidy them up in the process but I'll have a
look at the script as well tonight.

Cheers,

James

Edin Salkovic

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Mar 20, 2007, 6:01:54 AM3/20/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
Hi all,

This is my first post, although I've been subscribed to the group for
a month or two.

It's a bit late now (the deadline for applications is 24th March), but
some Pylons/MoinMoin guru could have signed-up (it's free :) for
mentoring a PSF/MoinMoin Google Summer of Code project implementing
the things needed to get a Python-only solution for serving the wiki
at http://docs.pythonweb.org.

I'm sure a lot of talented students would sign-up (myself included ;).

Some links:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode
http://wiki.python.org/moin/SummerOfCode/Mentors
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/GoogleSoc2007

Just my 2¢.

Best,
Edin

Graham Higgins

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Mar 20, 2007, 9:44:43 AM3/20/07
to pylons-...@googlegroups.com
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Hash: SHA1


On 20 Mar 2007, at 09:21, James Gardner wrote:

> Once again Philip Jenvey is on the case and has implemented a
> prototype
> rst plugin which currently generates HTML but not PDF.

FWIW, I noticed an unfortunate "feature" of the PDF export w.r.t.
code listings. Not only are line numbers lost but, depending on their
position, code listings can be split arbitrarily across page breaks -
what is unfortunate is that there is no continuation indication. In
conjunction, this is a little infelicitous.

Cheers,

Graham.

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