Remote Virtual Environments, VMs, and IDEs?

[Isaac Kerson]

What combination of cloud service and IDE does the group recommend for developing py4web apps? 

This question grows out another conversation on the board about command line vs IDEs. In it, Massimo recommends Visual Studio and an unnamed remote vm service. 

I'm struggling to find a balance between cost and convince. I've been doing research and the combinations of cloud services and IDEs are dizzying. It's hard to know how difficult it is to set up a connection without just doing it, but the process can be time-consuming.  

I am also concerned about cost. I've used Google Could services. I like them for the features, flexibility, ease-of-use, and integration with other Google products. But, the pricing is mysterious at best and misleading at worst. The "estimates" are often wrong and the costs can quickly grow out of control if you aren't vigilant. 

I recently started using Pythoneverywhere. I like the simplicity and flat fee. I like the web-based Bash, but the console isn't appropriate for large projects. I don't know how hard it is to set up a remote connection between and IDE and Pythoneverywere. Can this be done with SSH? If, so what IDEs have the easiest/best SSH setup?

I see that Atom (my current IDE of choice) has a remote-ssh package. Has anyone used it to connect to Pythoneverywhere? 

Recommendations and links to quick tutorials would be very helpful. 

Thanks! 

Isaac

[AGRogers]

My approach has been to do all my development on my local machine against sqlite. Then I set up a VM on Google Cloud, installed web2py and postgres DB and pushed my app to that. I then use Visual Studio Code with the Remote SSH extension to debug against the Rocket webserver. It would have been really difficult to find some problems i had if i had not been able to debug on the remote server. The public facing server is Apache and I would like to debug against it but I don't know how to. Google Cloud has a free VM option which might be enough for small installs. But setting everything up myself for the first time was hard work. Haven't tried any other options so cant help you there. And this is my first attempt, so i would listen more to others.

___________________________

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(+95) 09 250018669 (Myanmar)

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[Isaac Kerson]

I didn't know Google offered a free VM. I'll check it out. 

Thanks!

[Philip Kilner]

Hi Isaac,

On 12/11/2020 05:57, Isaac Kerson wrote:
> What combination of cloud service and IDE does the group recommend for
> developing py4web apps?
>

I use Amazon's Cloud 9.

On the face of it, this is expensive - the default is to work against an
Amazon EC2 instance, whereas I develop on Linode VMs.

However, AWS Cloud 9 also supports an SSH connection to your own server
[1], which is free - so if you have an AWS account at all you can use
the AWS C9 IDE for free. It also works against Python Anywhere.

[1]
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/cloud9/latest/user-guide/create-environment-ssh.html


--

Regards,

PhilK


'a bell is a cup...until it is struck'

[AGRogers]

Here is the google cloud free info.

https://cloud.google.com/free/docs/gcp-free-tier#free-tier 

___________________________

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roge...@gmail.com

(+95) 09 250018669 (Myanmar)

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[Jim Steil]

I don't believe pythonanywhere allows remote ssh.  At least in the very inexpensive packages I've used.  FWIW, I'm moving all my pythonanywhere apps to Linode.  There I can just fire up an ubuntu box and then do it all myself.  Remote SSH is easy.  I use PyCharm but have never done remote debugging.

-Jim

[Isaac Kerson]

@Roger: 

I'm reading through the Google Cloud free cloud info. Thanks! It's already making my head hurt. It's just so complicated. I wish their was a flat fee -- you can get unlimited services in Group A for X amount and serves in Group B for Y amount... But, I'm going to try it out and see what happens.

@Jim

Following my previous post, I've been playing around with remote debugging on Pythonanywhere. They don't seem to offer SSH with a remote connect to the Bash console running on the server, but they will allow you to connect via an IDE, Atom in my case, and edit files remotely. Not quite the same. You can't do pip installs and haven't figured out how to pull from GitHub to Pythonanywhere from Atom... SSH would be better. 

@Philip   
I had not heard about AWS C9 IDE until you mentioned it. Read about it on Wikipedia. Sounds interesting. It's a 100% browser based IDE and you like it? How does it compare to Atom or Pycharm? It's it "fully functional"? 

[Massimo DiPierro]

I have to say since I moved to vscode I have not looked back. The ability to work via ssh is priceless.

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[AGRogers]

Can anyone comment on price comparisons between Linode and Google Cloud and Amazon? As Isaac mentioned, Google pricing is not easy to get to the bottom of.

It seemed Linode was actually quite cheap compared to Google Cloud for an entry level machine. Google gave me a $400 credit so i have just been working through that - but it is disappearing faster than i had anticipated.

___________________________

www.TenOutOfTen.org

roge...@gmail.com

(+95) 09 250018669 (Myanmar)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/py4web/CAJYrZrkLxxt%2ByuLHRGsu7cemMcbi23-S%3D_HbLMH-EKZxkyJrvA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jim Steil]

I can't comment on gcp, but I've been playing with a Linode server for a couple months and am loving it. $100 credit to start with so no real downside to trying it. I have incurred no costs yet and am surprised at the small amount of network data I've used.

Sorry I can give more comparison info. I choose Linode primarily because I couldn't predict what costs would be using Google or Amazon.

Jim

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[Isaac Kerson]

After following up on Jim and Massimo's advice, I can add two comments to this thread: 

1. I've used Linode for a couple weeks now. So far it's working better for me than Google Cloud. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles of GCP, but the costs are predictable -- $5 per month for a shared Debian 9 server with 1 CPU, 25GB Storage, and 1GB RAM -- and is more than enough for my basic needs. 

2. I set up a remote SSH Connection with VSCode and am running my apps in Docker containers. Once the pieces are in place,  it's super easy to deploy new apps, run multiple apps on the same server, tear down apps, and use different packages across multiple containers. Best of all, you are not tied to developing on one computer in the virtual environment you've painstakingly built.

Both are well worth exploring for anyone who is interested. 

Isaac

[Massimo]

For $5 you can get also get a dedicated VM on DigitalOcean with similar characteristics. They offer free DNS hosting even for 3rd party IP.