a flying camera? but which one should i choose?

[Liz Barry]

Hey all, 

There's been some off-list chatter about which cameras capture great aerial images so I'm gathering it into a public thread. 

Many aerial mappers do this balancing act where we identify recently outdated models that are high quality, widely available, yet not very expensive. Over time, trusted cameras like the Canon A495 become harder to find, while at the same time newer generations of cameras enter the "used" market, raising the quality of what we can get for ~$50 bucks. 

Here's the wiki page where we explain why we're currently recommending the Canon A495 based on certain qualities that you can look for when choosing your the next flying camera: http://publiclaboratory.org/wiki/camera-selection

Some folks are starting to experiment with rather expensive cameras, such as the Canon S series. (S90, S95, S100). Even the oldest one of the series (S90) is still selling for over $200 on the used market. 

What are the qualities that you use when choosing a camera? Is GPS a key feature? anything else? What models have been great for you? Which have survived crashes that would have defeated lesser technology?

--
@lizbarry

[Adam Griffith]

I'm a Canon SD1400 or similar series kind of guy.
Pros: 14 MP, long battery life, simple operation, $125-ish, survived a 200 ft fall onto pavement (!)
Cons: proprietary battery (grrrrr...)

--
@lizbarry

-- Post to this group at publicla...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, email publiclaborato...@googlegroups.com. Options at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/publiclaboratory?hl=en

--
Adam Griffith
Director of Science and Coastal Environments
publiclaboratory.org
828.321.2326

[Stewart Long]

Here is a reference image at 200 feet above ground level from the Canon S100 with the digic 5 image processor. Courtesy of Nelson Minar who attended the Dolores Park meet up in San Francisco with his Canon S100 http://www.flickr.com/photos/nelsonminar/7191483246/in/photostream

-- Post to this group at grassroo...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe, email grassrootsmapp...@googlegroups.com. Options at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/grassrootsmapping?hl=en

[Chris Fastie]

Nothing eases the entry into balloon or kite photography like a $50 camera.  Winning an ebay auction for a Canon SD1100 for $50 got me started 18 months ago.  As a beginner, I would not have been bold enough to fly a $150 camera on the days when my SD1100 captured lots of good aerial images.   But just four months later, with some successful flying behind me, I decided that if I was going to invest all that time and effort getting a camera into the air, I wanted the photos to be more than minimal quality.  Today, a Canon Powershot S95, which costs about $300 used on ebay, is my primary aerial camera.

The S95 (and other models) have slightly larger sensors and smarter processing than less expensive Powershots, and generally take crisper photos.  But two other features can allow the S95 to take much better aerial images:  manual focus and shutter priority.  Most sub $200 point and shoot cameras have only automatic focus, and sometimes a swinging aerial camera just can’t find anything to focus on in time.  Most sub $100 point and shoot cameras have only fully automatic exposure modes, and sometimes the shutter speed will be set too low for a swaying camera to capture a crisp image.  Cameras that allow locking focus close to infinity and locking shutter speed at 1/640 or higher are generally going to return to earth with more usable photos than fully automatic cameras.

If flying a $200 to $300 camera is too rich for you, even $50 Powershots can have shutter priority by using CHDK.  Manual focus is not a feature of CHDK (although it might be possible with scripts allowed by CHDK?). So you might have to settle for using the “Infinity focus” mode of most Powershots which I think is automatic focus which never tries to focus close to the camera.  Using CHDK's shutter priority and the camera's “Infinity focus” mode can greatly improve the aerial photos from just about any Canon Powershot.

Canon has made 27 Powershots which have 8 to 12 megapixels and are under 250 grams (http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMin=8&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMax=12&paramSpecsWeightMin=0&paramSpecsWeightMax=250). Of these I have had aerial success with the SD1100, A495, A590, and S95. Only eight the 27 models don’t need a proprietary battery pack (e.g., A495 and A590). You can learn which of the 27 will run CHDK here: http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cameras.  If you use CHDK, continuous shooting mode becomes irrelevant because CHDK allows an intervalometer script which will trigger the shutter at any interval.

[Liz Barry]

Stewart, 

that photo is amazingly clear. Brave of Nelson Minar to hoist a ~$400+ camera in the air! 

Do you use the GPS in the S100 for anything?

--
@lizbarry

[Chris Fastie]

[Stewart Long]

The integrated GPS on the s100 is great to have. In this case we did not use the GPS info to make the map, but it would have been really nice to have it while mapping in an outlying area like the Gulf. It's also favorable to have GPS data as an ancillary companion data set for all flights.

Chris's advise is excellent! It should be posted on the site along with the other camera help info. A used Canon S95 or S90 (same sensor) would be a great pick for a nicer camera for the best price, with the A495 as the baseline and the SD1100 somewhere in between.

-Stewart 

[Alex Mandel]

On 06/04/2012 06:50 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
>
>>
>> Nothing eases the entry into balloon or kite photography like a $50
>> camera. Winning an ebay auction for a Canon SD1100 for $50 got me started
>> 18 months ago. As a beginner, I would not have been bold enough to fly a
>> $150 camera on the days when my SD1100 captured lots of good aerial images.
>> But just four months later, with some successful flying behind me, I
>> decided that if I was going to invest all that time and effort getting a
>> camera into the air, I wanted the photos to be more than minimal quality.
>> Today, a Canon Powershot S95, which costs about $300 used on ebay, is my
>> primary aerial camera.
>>
>> The S95 (and other models) have slightly larger sensors and smarter
>> processing than less expensive Powershots, and generally take crisper
>> photos. But two other features can allow the S95 to take much better
>> aerial images: manual focus and shutter priority. Most sub $200 point and
>> shoot cameras have only automatic focus, and sometimes a swinging aerial

>> camera just can�t find anything to focus on in time. Most sub $100 point

>> and shoot cameras have only fully automatic exposure modes, and sometimes
>> the shutter speed will be set too low for a swaying camera to capture a
>> crisp image. Cameras that allow locking focus close to infinity and
>> locking shutter speed at 1/640 or higher are generally going to return to
>> earth with more usable photos than fully automatic cameras.
>>
>> If flying a $200 to $300 camera is too rich for you, even $50 Powershots
>> can have shutter priority by using CHDK. Manual focus is not a feature of
>> CHDK (although it might be possible with scripts allowed by CHDK?). So you

>> might have to settle for using the �Infinity focus� mode of most Powershots

>> which I think is automatic focus which never tries to focus close to the

>> camera. Using CHDK's shutter priority and the camera's �Infinity focus�

>> mode can greatly improve the aerial photos from just about any Canon
>> Powershot.
>>
>> Canon has made 27 Powershots which have 8 to 12 megapixels and are under
>> 250 grams (

>> http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMin=8&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMax=12&paramSpecsWeightMin=0&paramSpecsWeightMax=250<http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsM>).

>> Of these I have had aerial success with the SD1100, A495, A590, and S95.

>> Only eight the 27 models don�t need a proprietary battery pack (e.g., A495

>> and A590). You can learn which of the 27 will run CHDK here:
>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cameras. If you use CHDK, continuous
>> shooting mode becomes irrelevant because CHDK allows an intervalometer
>> script which will trigger the shutter at any interval.
>>

I have a differing opinion about the battery packs. LiION is a better
technology for rechargeable batteries over NiMH. You'll get more shots
per charge, faster charge times and reliable use for at least 3 years.
The advantage over disposable batteries, well they aren't disposable, so
less materials and landfill space. Also many camera models won't use
Alkaline due to a slight voltage difference compared to other chemistries.

Yes the disadvantage is cost, though I've always been able to find after
market deals on batteries and usually pay $5-15 per pack rather than
$30-$50. Though I am well aware that a brick of 100 AA from Fry's is ~$10.

In terms of usage, testing on a G9 and 450d(Rebel) (Yes we fly heavy
cameras on kites), the LiIon battery will last 4x the capacities of our
memory cards (at least) in the 8-16 GB range.

If you have the money I would also opt for CHDK compatible camera or
consider a GoPro which has an intervalometer to begin with. The
continuous mode with a rubber band is awesome but relying on that just
feels like waiting for a failure in the shutter button or rubber band.

+1 on something that lets you set shutter speed and focus at infinity
(fyi I think you can override that stuff with CHDK too).

Enjoy,
Alex

[Patrick Coyle]

What is user experience with Powershot SX230 HS? It is tempting given sensor, gps and with CHDK available. Newer version, SX260, not yet from what I saw. Available used under $200.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Alex Mandel <tech...@wildintellect.com> wrote:

> On 06/04/2012 06:50 PM, Chris Fastie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Nothing eases the entry into balloon or kite photography like a $50
>>> camera. Winning an ebay auction for a Canon SD1100 for $50 got me started
>>> 18 months ago. As a beginner, I would not have been bold enough to fly a
>>> $150 camera on the days when my SD1100 captured lots of good aerial images.
>>> But just four months later, with some successful flying behind me, I
>>> decided that if I was going to invest all that time and effort getting a
>>> camera into the air, I wanted the photos to be more than minimal quality.
>>> Today, a Canon Powershot S95, which costs about $300 used on ebay, is my
>>> primary aerial camera.
>>>
>>> The S95 (and other models) have slightly larger sensors and smarter
>>> processing than less expensive Powershots, and generally take crisper
>>> photos. But two other features can allow the S95 to take much better
>>> aerial images: manual focus and shutter priority. Most sub $200 point and
>>> shoot cameras have only automatic focus, and sometimes a swinging aerial

>>> camera just can’t find anything to focus on in time. Most sub $100 point

>>> and shoot cameras have only fully automatic exposure modes, and sometimes
>>> the shutter speed will be set too low for a swaying camera to capture a
>>> crisp image. Cameras that allow locking focus close to infinity and
>>> locking shutter speed at 1/640 or higher are generally going to return to
>>> earth with more usable photos than fully automatic cameras.
>>>
>>> If flying a $200 to $300 camera is too rich for you, even $50 Powershots
>>> can have shutter priority by using CHDK. Manual focus is not a feature of
>>> CHDK (although it might be possible with scripts allowed by CHDK?). So you

>>> might have to settle for using the “Infinity focus” mode of most Powershots

>>> which I think is automatic focus which never tries to focus close to the

>>> camera. Using CHDK's shutter priority and the camera's “Infinity focus”

>>> mode can greatly improve the aerial photos from just about any Canon
>>> Powershot.
>>>
>>> Canon has made 27 Powershots which have 8 to 12 megapixels and are under
>>> 250 grams (
>>> http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMin=8&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMax=12&paramSpecsWeightMin=0&paramSpecsWeightMax=250<http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsM>).
>>> Of these I have had aerial success with the SD1100, A495, A590, and S95.

>>> Only eight the 27 models don’t need a proprietary battery pack (e.g., A495

>>> and A590). You can learn which of the 27 will run CHDK here:
>>> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Cameras. If you use CHDK, continuous
>>> shooting mode becomes irrelevant because CHDK allows an intervalometer
>>> script which will trigger the shutter at any interval.
>>>
>
> I have a differing opinion about the battery packs. LiION is a better
> technology for rechargeable batteries over NiMH. You'll get more shots
> per charge, faster charge times and reliable use for at least 3 years.
> The advantage over disposable batteries, well they aren't disposable, so
> less materials and landfill space. Also many camera models won't use
> Alkaline due to a slight voltage difference compared to other chemistries.
>
> Yes the disadvantage is cost, though I've always been able to find after
> market deals on batteries and usually pay $5-15 per pack rather than
> $30-$50. Though I am well aware that a brick of 100 AA from Fry's is ~$10.
>
> In terms of usage, testing on a G9 and 450d(Rebel) (Yes we fly heavy
> cameras on kites), the LiIon battery will last 4x the capacities of our
> memory cards (at least) in the 8-16 GB range.
>
> If you have the money I would also opt for CHDK compatible camera or
> consider a GoPro which has an intervalometer to begin with. The
> continuous mode with a rubber band is awesome but relying on that just
> feels like waiting for a failure in the shutter button or rubber band.
>
> +1 on something that lets you set shutter speed and focus at infinity
> (fyi I think you can override that stuff with CHDK too).
>
> Enjoy,
> Alex
>

[KAU Gmail]

Unsubscribe me please.

-----Mensagem original-----
De: grassroo...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:grassroo...@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Patrick Coyle
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 6 de junho de 2012 19:44
Para: publicla...@googlegroups.com
Cc: publicla...@googlegroups.com; grassroo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: [grassrootsmapping] Re: [PLOTS] Re: a flying camera? but which one
should i choose?

[Bruce & Donelda Holland-Moritz]

I've use the Powershot SX230 for a couple of months now - although only
flown it for a couple of short test/demo flights. As advertized great
sensor, gps and CHDK works well too, we ( NMC the college where we are using
this camera)purchased one new for $200 and also purchased a waterproof case
($200 also)made for the SX230 as added protection in case of a splash
landing. The GPS even works from inside the case - although not under water.
One problem is that there is no heading information recorded which is useful
for geo-locationing Recently used it to do geotagged photos of some trees
on campus to use with an app. for a self directed tree ID walk for the
botany classes. We've also talked about the same sort of thing to geotag
photos of rock outcroppings for the geology classes, but have not done that
yet. I hope to have time soon for more kite photo trials over the shoreline
of Grand Traverse Bay and the NMC harbor. I'll post more after that.

Bruce Holland-Moritz
Northwestern Michigan College
Water Studies Program

>>> camera just can�t find anything to focus on in time. Most sub $100

>>> point
>>> and shoot cameras have only fully automatic exposure modes, and
>>> sometimes
>>> the shutter speed will be set too low for a swaying camera to capture a
>>> crisp image. Cameras that allow locking focus close to infinity and
>>> locking shutter speed at 1/640 or higher are generally going to return
>>> to
>>> earth with more usable photos than fully automatic cameras.
>>>
>>> If flying a $200 to $300 camera is too rich for you, even $50 Powershots
>>> can have shutter priority by using CHDK. Manual focus is not a feature
>>> of
>>> CHDK (although it might be possible with scripts allowed by CHDK?). So
>>> you

>>> might have to settle for using the �Infinity focus� mode of most

>>> Powershots
>>> which I think is automatic focus which never tries to focus close to the

>>> camera. Using CHDK's shutter priority and the camera's �Infinity focus�

>>> mode can greatly improve the aerial photos from just about any Canon
>>> Powershot.
>>>
>>> Canon has made 27 Powershots which have 8 to 12 megapixels and are under
>>> 250 grams (
>>> http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMin=8&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsMax=12&paramSpecsWeightMin=0&paramSpecsWeightMax=250<http://www.dpreview.com/products/search/cameras#criterias=SpecsCoreParams%2CBrand%2CSpecsEffectivePixels%2CSpecsWeight&includeDiscontinued=Yes&sort=newestFirst&view=list&page=1&paramSpecsCoreParamsBodyType=UltraCompact%2CCompact%2CSLRLike%2CLargeSensorCompact&paramBrand=canon&paramSpecsEffectivePixelsM>).
>>> Of these I have had aerial success with the SD1100, A495, A590, and S95.

>>> Only eight the 27 models don�t need a proprietary battery pack (e.g.,