Fwd: Terminologia Anatomica - Romanian Translation
Loredana Cirstea
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Anatomica - Romanian Translation
To: doru...@yahoo.com, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Domnule Prof. Univ. Ispas,
Sunt Loredana Cirstea, student in anul VI in cadrul U.M.F. "Carol Davila", Medicina Generala si Project Manager pentru Sapiens Mapping Project.
Va scriu in legatura cu discutia verbala avuta pe 22 Oct 2013, in sediul U.M.F. “Carol Davila”, intre 13:15 si 13:35 si discutia de astazi, 24 Oct 2013, intre 13:10 si 13:18, in acelasi sediu, in care ati binevoit a-mi oferi adresa dumneavoastra de email.
Reiau intr-un mod clar punctele contributiei mele in conditiile unei lucrari de licenta cu subiectul Terminologiei Anatomica:
1. o traducere personala in limba romana a termenilor
2. voi prezenta variante anterioare de traducere in limba romana pentru fiecare termen (cu referinte bibliografice)
3. voi lega fiecare cuvant din limba latina, printr-un index, de variantele de traducere in limba romana
4. cu ajutorul punctului 3, voi construi un algoritm de traducere semi-automata a termenilor, in cazul revizuirii terminologiilor.
5. voi face o propunere finala de traducere in limba romana, supervizata de coordonator si o voi publica in formatul digital amintit anterior.
Beneficii:
i. Voi crea un mini dictionar al cuvintelor terminologiilor (nu numai ai termenilor/frazelor).
ii. Prin acest dictionar si prin algoritmul de traducere automata, se poate asigura si usura folosirea aceleasi variante de traducere pentru un cuvant, in toate terminologiile.
iii. Va fi mult mai usor de tradus termeni noi sau retradus termeni modificati.
iv. Se va crea o resursa oficiala online, care poate fi folosita drept sursa unica si corecta a terminologiilor, ce va putea oferi o referinta precisa pentru fiecare termen, inlaturand frica de incorectitudine a termenilor din diversele articole, publicatii online.
v. Acest lucru va creea o baza de unde conceptul se poate extinde la orice informatie stiintifica.
vi. Faciliteaza crearea instrumentelor de invatare online, cu termeni anatomici oficiali sau, cel putin, corect tradusi.
Referitor la promisiunea unor explicatii detaliate, vreau sa explic conceptul de date disponibile online si importanta existentei online a Terminologiei Anatomica ( Histologica si Embryologica ) intr-un mod la care pot fi facute referinte. Acest concept este extins la o viitoare traducere oficiala in limba romana, a terminologiilor. Incep prin a da un exemplu. Dexonline (http://dexonline.ro/informatii) este un proiect de voluntariat, care a reusit sa aduca aproape toate dictionarele romanesti in mediul online. Acest proiect nu s-a bucurat de colaborarea concreta a Academiei Romane. In cel mai bun caz, aceasta nu s-a opus. Acum, dexonline.ro are mai multi utilizatori decat numarul de oameni ce cumpara dictionare, iar oricine poate include in proiectul sau de cercetare link-uri (referinte) directe catre definitiile termenilor care ii intereseaza. Este foarte important ca cineva sa poata folosi referinte directe catre surse oficiale, pentru ca elimina frica de a folosi un cuvant incorect. Din aceasta cauza vrem terminologii accesibile online. Vrem sansa de a curata Internetul. Am cautat intr-un mod meticulos traduceri in limba romana a termenilor anatomici si am fost foarte dezamagita sa vad ca nu exista surse de incredere online. Mai mult, foarte multi termeni erau tradusi prin adaptarea cuvantului latin la forma romaneasca. Scopul crearii Internetului a fost chiar facilitarea cercetarii si colaborarii stiintifice. Noi vrem sansa de a impinge dezvoltarea acestuia exact in aceasta directie. Avem nevoie de surse stiintifice oficiale, online, pentru a lupta contra informatiei incorecte - acelasi tip de informatie pe care toata lumea il condamna (in special in domeniul medical), dar pe care nimeni nu o corecteaza. Terminologiile sunt doar inceputul Sapiens Mapping Project, dar fara ele nu putem avansa, pentru ca ele sunt baza din care proiectul se va dezvolta. Termenii vor fi interconectati si intre ei vor fi facute relatii, precum si intre ei si alte concepte medicale, imagini etc. Avem nevoie de traducerea in limba romana, pentru a aduce toate acestea si studentului roman. La aceasta, puteti adauga si mandria patriotica daca vreti.
Informatii despre proiect:
http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php
Informatii in limba romana despre proiect:
Pot sa va ofer un exemplu simplu despre cum se poate folosi terminologia:
caracteristici:
- imaginea poate fi miscata, redimensionata
- descrierea poate sa fie tradusa in orice limba, miscata, redimensionata )
Precum vedeti, descrierea vine din alta sursa. Poate sa fie alterata, imbunatatita, fara alterarea imaginii sau a efortului de a corela descrierea cu imaginea. Acesta este doar un exemplu simplu al tehnologiei pe care o cream in acest moment, care va fi implementata pentru termenii anatomici si cei histologici, in viitorul apropiat.
Toate acestea fiind zise, revin cu propunerile:
1. Colaborarea la Terminologia Anatomica. Am realizat deja prima versiunea a traducerii in limba romana, dar am nevoie de o parere avizata, preferabil membru IFAA. Aceasta propunere este facuta in numele Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ), iar efortul va fi considerat un efort de voluntariat avizat, cu recunostinta specifica.
2. Coordonarea lucrarii mele de licenta, cu propunerea unei traduceri in limba romana a Terminologiei Anatomica, care sa fie gratuita si deschisa publicului. Am mentionat anterior punctele viitoarei contributii, cu mentiunea ca deja am realizat traducerea personala a termenilor. Rezultatul muncii mele va fi inclus in Sapiens Mapping Project.
Datele proiectului din Terminologia Anatomica (impreuna cu traducerea mea) pot fi gasite aici:
http://sliced.ro/smp/ontology.php#browse
Atasez o traducere in limba engleza a acestui text, datorita faptului ca SMP este un efort international de voluntariat, iar toate colaborarile sunt in limba engleza. Asadar, in cazul in care raspunsul dumneavoastra nu va fi in limba engleza, acesta va fi tradus.
Aceasta conversatie, precum si cele viitoare, sunt deschise si fac parte din incercarile ambasadoriale ale Sapiens Mapping Project. De asemenea, voi trimite acest document si domnului Christian Tzurcanu, Project Leader pentru SMP.
In cele ce urmeaza, voi prezenta rezumatul primei discutii, asa cum a fost inclus in concluziile ambasadoriale ale Sapiens Mapping Project.
“Data discutiei: 22 Oct 2013. Din pacate, nu am inceput conversatia in spiritul principiilor transparentei, folosite de Sapiens Mapping Project. A fost o discutie verbala, fara niciun fel de dovada a existentei ei. Mi-am prezentat propunerea - sa colectez traducerile anterioare in limba romana pentru fiecare termen din Terminologia Anatomica (cu referinta catre carte, pagina, rand) si sa compun o versiune in limba romana a Terminologiei Anatomica (inexistenta in acest moment, in ciuda publicarii TA in 1998). I-am comunicat d-lui Prof. Ispas intentia noastra de a face aceasta versiune gratuita si deschisa publicului (informatie libera), online si ca aplicatie mobila. In plus, i-am spus ca datele noastre (Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica si Terminologia Embryologica) sunt oferite direct de FIPAT, prin Prof. Pierre Sprumont si ca avem acordul lor de a face datele gratuite si deschise publicului. Am adaugat faptul ca ei ne-au facilitat dialogul cu Societatea Anatomistilor din Romania, condusa de Prof. Andrei Motoc, prin prezentarea noastra, desi nu am avut inca un raspuns de la aceasta. Am explicat beneficiile propunerii, in ceea ce priveste accesibilitatea informatiei pentru studenti si cercetatori, aratandu-i aplicatia pentru iPod, Terminologia Anatomica ver. 1.1 si punand accent pe importanta existentei unei ontologii in limba romana, ce ar putea fi folosita drept referinta stiintifica online.
Nu cred ca am reusit sa explic indeajuns de bine domnului profesor importanta informatiei online accesibile, ca instrument stiintific, pentru ca nu s-a aratat lamurit si convins. Mi-a aratat editia printata a Terminologiei Anatomica, moment in care l-am asigurat ca avem toate acele date, dar pe care le vrem computabile, nu in format carte. Domnul profesor m-a anuntat ca traduceri in limba romana au fost deja facute, aratandu-mi varianta in limba romana a Atlasului de Anatomie a Omului, Netter, in care a contribuit personal, drept consultant pe problema termenilor anatomici. Prin urmare, nu a inteles exact de ce vrem sa traducem Terminologia Anatomica, atat timp cat termenii au fost deja tradusi. Am ramas putin in cumpana in acel moment, din cauza faptului ca in urma unei cautari meticuloase online, nu am gasit traduceri utilizabile in limba romana. Am simtit ca punctul in care ajunsese discutia ar putea fi un punct de tensiune, dar nu mi-am exprimat motivele confuziei, iar domnul profesor Ispas a luat acest moment drept un semn ca nu am o idee concreta asupra subiectului lucrarii de licenta si mi-a sugerat un timp de gandire pentru reevaluarea subiectului, invitandu-ma cordial sa revin, dupa ce mi-am clarificat scopul. Dupa invitatie, l-am intrebat daca stie de existenta unei traduceri oficiale in limba romana a Terminologiei Anatomica, in aceasta forma exacta. Initial nu a dat un raspuns direct, dar apoi mi-a spus ca nu, nu exista. L-am intrebat de ce si mi-a explicat ca, in trecut, s-a produs o separatie intre anatomistii din cadrul U.M.F. Bucuresti si IFAA, din cauza taxelor prea mari. Asadar, relatia s-a racit. Inca de la inceputul conversatiei, mi-a spus ca ar fi mai bine sa-l contactez pe Prof. Andrei Motoc, care este coordonatorul Societatii Anatomistilor din Romania, cu sediul in Timisoara.
La sfarsit, Prof. Ispas mi-a spus ca dumnealui nu se mai ocupa de lucrari de licenta (de 10-15 ani), din cauza lipsei de timp (coordoneaza tezele de doctorat), dar ca poate vorbi cu unul din asistentii sai universitari. In final, mi-a spus sa revin Joi, 24 Oct 2013, in jur de ora 13:00.
Concluzii: Nu am urmat protocolul specific Sapiens Mapping Project, referitor la transparenta. Prin urmare, voi scrie o scrisoare domnului profesor Ispas, cu rezumatul de mai sus si cu explicatii detaliate despre importanta existentei unei traduceri in limba romana a Terminologiei Anatomica si despre principiile proiectului. Voi propune o colaborare transparenta in acest subiect, cu sau fara transformarea in proiect de licenta. Ma voi duce la biroul dumnealui la data si ora stabilita si ii voi oferi posibilitatea de a alege calea de primire a scrisorii - prin emali, prin posta (cu optiunea confirmarii primirii) sau o alta cale, propusa de dumnealui.”
Va multumesc si astept raspunsul dumneavoastra.
Loredana Cirstea
Project Manager pentru SMP.
English translation:
Dear Prof. Ispas,
This is Loredana Cirstea, 6th year student at U.M.F. "Carol Davila", General Medicine and Project Manager for the Sapiens Mapping Project.
I am writing in regard to our verbal discussion from 22 Oct 2013, at U.M.F. “Carol Davila”, between 13:15 and 13:35 and our discussion from 24 Oct 2013, between 13:10 and 13:18 at the same place, when you were kind enough to give me your email.
I now clearly reiterate what my personal contribution will be, regarding a future graduation thesis on Terminologia Anatomica:
1. a personal Romanian translation of the terms.
2. I will present past Romanian translations of each term (with bibliographical references)
3. I will link every latin word to its various Romanian translations, through an index
4. with 3. , I will create an algorithm for a semi-automatic translation of the terms, in case of future changes in the terminologies.
5. I will make a final proposal of a Romanian translation, supervised by my chosen coordinator and I will publish it in the digital format I talked about earlier.
Benefits:
i. I will make a mini-dictionary of the words used in the terminologies (not only the terms/phrases).
ii. With this dictionary and with the automatic translation algorithm, one can ensure and facilitate the use of the same prefered translation for all terms in the terminologies.
iii. It will be easier to translate new or modified terms.
iv. We will create an official online resource, which could be utilised as an unique and correct source of the terminologies, which could offer an individual link to each term, eliminating the fear of incorrect terms, used in articles or publications.
v. This will build a base for extending this concept to other scientific information.
vi. It facilitates creation of online learning instruments, with official anatomic terms, or, at least, correctly translated.
As to my promise of in-depth details, I want to further explain the concept of online data and the importance of having the official Terminologia Anatomica (and also Histologica and Embryologica) online and referenceable. This concept is extended to a future official Romanian translation of the terminologies. I will start with an example. Dexonline (http://dexonline.ro/informatii) is a volunteering project that has succedded to bring almost all of the Romanian dictionaries online. The project did not have the Romanian Academy’s actual collaboration. At best, the Academy did not oppose the project. Now, dexonline.ro has more viewers than people buying dictionaries and anyone can include in their research project direct links to the definitions they are interested in. It is very important to use direct links to official sources, because it dispels the fear of using an incorrect word. That is why we want online accessible terminologies. We want the chance to begin clearing up the Internet. I have thoroughly researched the Internet for Romanian translations of terms and I was very disappointed to find that there is no online trustworthy resource, furthermore, many of the terms were translated by adapting the latin word to fit the Romanian language. The scope of the Internet actually was to facilitate scientific research. We want the chance to push it in that very direction. We need scientific, official sources online, to fight against incorrect information - the same information everyone is condemning (especially in the medical field), but no one wants to help correct. The terminologies are just the beginning for the Sapiens Mapping Project, but without them, we cannot proceed, because they are the base from which the project will grow. The terms will be interconnected and relations will be made between them and other medical concepts, images etc. We need the Romanian translation in order to bring all of this to the Romanian student. To that, we can add patriotic pride if we want to.
Information about our project:
http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php
Information in Romanian about our project:
Also, I can give a simple example of how the terminology can be used:
features:
-plate can be moved, resized
-description can be translated into any languages, moved, resized )
As you can see, the term comes from a different source. It can be altered, improved in the future, without altering the image or the effort of mapping the term on the image. This is just a demo of the technology we are working on now, which will be implemented for the gross anatomy terms and the histological ones, in the near future.
All of this being said, I reiterate my proposals:
1. Collaboration for the Terminologia Anatomica. I made a first version of translation in Romanian, but I need a more educated (in this field) person to verify the terms and offer suggestions, preferably an IFAA member. This proposal is in behalf of the Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ) and would be considered an educated volunteering effort and credits will be given.
2. Coordinating my graduation thesis on the subject of proposing a free, open source Romanian translation of Terminologia Anatomica. I have already mentioned the points of my future contribution, with the addnotation that I have already made my own translation. The result of my work will be included in the Sapiens Mapping Project.
Also, the TA (along with my translation) can be found here:
http://sliced.ro/smp/ontology.php#browse
I also enclose an English translation of the text, due to the fact that the SMP is an international volunteering effort and all collaborations are in English. Therefore, if your response will not be in English, it will be translated.
This conversation and further ones are open and part of the SMP ambassadorial attempts. I will also forward this to the Project Leader of the SMP, Christian Tzurcanu.
I will next present my summary of our first discussion, as it has been included to the Sapiens Mapping Project’s ambassadorial conclusions:
“Date of discussion: 22 Oct 2013. Unfortunately, I did not start the conversation in the Sapiens Mapping Project's transparency principles. It was a verbal conversation, without any recordings of it. I presented my proposal - to research every term in the Terminologia Anatomica and find the Romanian translations used by various authors in their publications (with reference to the book, page and line) and develop a Romanian version of Terminologia Anatomica (which is non-existent despite TA's release in 1998). I told Prof. Ispas that we intend to make the version free and open source on the internet and on mobile devices. Also, I told him that our data (Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica and Terminologia Embryologica) comes directly from FIPAT, through Prof. Pierre Sprumont and that we have their permission to make the data free and open source. Moreover, they have facilitated the contact with The Romanian Anatomists Society, run by Prof. Andrei Motoc, by referencing us to him, even though we did not get any response. I explained the benefits of our proposal, in terms of data accessibility for students and researchers, showing our Terminologia Anatomica ver. 1.1 app for iPod and emphasizing the importance of having a Romanian ontology, which could be used as a scientific reference online.
I do not think that I was able to explain clearly the importance of accessible online data, as a scientific tool, because Prof. Ispas was not entirely convinced and clear about the issue. He showed me the Terminologia Anatomica printed edition and I reassured him that we had all that data, but wanted it computable, not in a book. Furthermore, he told me that Romanian translations of the anatomical terms have already been made and are used, showing me the Netter Anatomy Atlas, the Romanian version, in which he personally contributed as a consultant. Therefore, he did not really understand why are we trying to translate the Terminologia Anatomica, when all the terms were already translated. I was a little taken aback by that fact, due to previous thorough research of the internet and not finding any usable Romanian translations. I sensed that this might be a point of friction in the matter, but I did not explain my confusion and prof. Ispas took it as a sign that I did not really have a concrete subject for my graduation thesis and suggested time for reevaluating the matter, cordially inviting me to come back when I cleared up my goals. After the invite, I asked him if he knows an official Romanian translation of the Terminologia Anatomica, in this exact form. He denied response first, then told me that no, it does not exist. I asked him why and he told me that in the past there was a separation between the U.M.F. Bucharest anatomists and IFAA, due to large membership taxes. And so, the relationship diminished. He told me, even in the beginning of the conversation that I would better contact Prof. Andrei Motoc, who is in charge of the Romanian Society of Anatomists, in Timisoara.
In the end, Prof. Ispas told me that he does not coordinate graduation theses anymore (not for the last 10-15 years), due to lack of time (he coordinates the PhD theses) and that he could talk to one of his Teacher's Assistants. Finally, he told me to come back Thursday, 24 Oct 2013, at about 1 pm.
Conclusions: I did not follow the SMP transparency protocol, therefore, I will write a letter to Prof. Ispas with the present summary and with the in-depth explanations about the importance of having an official Romanian translation of the Terminologia Anatomica and about the principles of the Sapiens Mapping Project. I will propose transparent collaboration on the matter, with or without it being the subject of my graduation thesis. I will go to his office at the appointed date and time and offer him the option to choose the means of delivery for the letter - via email, via post-office (with the option to confirm delivery) or another option, proposed by him.”
I thank you and await your response.
Loredana Cirstea
Project Manager for the SMP.