Fwd: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation

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Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:33:35 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM
Subject: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: mihnea.n...@gmail.com


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

My name is Loredana Cirstea, 6th year student at U.M.F. "Carol Davila", General Medicine and Project Manager for the Sapiens Mapping Project.

Volunteering for the aforementioned project has shown the need for having an official Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica and Terminologia Embryologica. As far as I know, neither of them exists. For clarity, I am not talking about various Romanian translations used in other publications or articles, I am talking about an official one, approved by FIPAT ( http://www.ifaa.net/index.php/fipat ). If I am mistaken, please correct me and provide a pointer to the data.

The Sapiens Mapping Project has begun collaboration with Prof. Sprumont of FIPAT, receiving the Latin and English official translations for the three Terminologies and the approval to make them accessible (web, mobile apps, database format) and free.

I personally made a first draft of the Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica (an year ago), with the goal of perfecting it. I will do the same for the other two Terminologies, in behalf of the project.

My proposal:

1. Collaboration for the Terminologia Histologica. I can make a first version of translation in Romanian, but I need a more educated (in this field) person to verify the terms and offer suggestions, preferably an IFAA member. This proposal is in behalf of the Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ) and would be considered an educated volunteering effort and credits will be given.

2. Coordinating my graduation thesis on the subject of proposing a Romanian translation of Terminologia Histologica. In this, I plan to make my own translation, research each term and show references (book, author, page, line) of how it was translated in other publications and make the final proposal. The result of my work will be included in the project.

We have managed to put the TH data in Database form here:

Also, the TA (along with my translation) can be found here:

and full download of data at 

https://github.com/ctzurcanu/smp/tree/master/data

Further information:

http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php

http://sliced.ro/blog/ (with tutorials for Navigator 2D:)

http://sliced.ro/smp/nav2d.php (our recent project)

http://sliced.ro/histo/ (future project - we aim at mapping the TH concepts on histology images - we are now building technology for this, as you can see in this demo: http://sliced.ro/plate/

features:
-plate can be moved, resized
-description can be translated into any languages, moved, resized )

My choice of addressing you in the English language is due to the fact that the SMP is an international volunteering effort and all collaboration is in English. Therefore, I expect your response will be in English also ( personal CV states English proficiency: http://histology.ro/Histology/Colectiv_files/Nicolescu_MI_CVweb_15oct2013.pdf). If not, all discussions will be translated in English.

I am also contacting Prof. Eugen Radu of U.M.F. "C. Davila", with the same proposals.

This conversation and further ones are open and part of the SMP ambassadorial attempts. I will also forward to the SMP Leader, Christian Tzurcanu.

Thank you for your time,
Loredana Cirstea
SMP - Project Manager

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:33:50 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 9:07 PM
Subject: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: r.e...@gmail.co, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Radu,

My name is Loredana Cirstea, 6th year student at U.M.F. "Carol Davila", General Medicine and Project Manager for the Sapiens Mapping Project.

Volunteering for the aforementioned project has shown the need for having an official Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica and Terminologia Embryologica. As far as I know, neither of them exists. For clarity, I am not talking about various Romanian translations used in other publications or articles, I am talking about an official one, approved by FIPAT ( http://www.ifaa.net/index.php/fipat ). If I am mistaken, please correct me and provide a pointer to the data.

The Sapiens Mapping Project has begun collaboration with Prof. Sprumont of FIPAT, receiving the Latin and English official translations for the three Terminologies and the approval to make them accessible (web, mobile apps, database format) and free.

I personally made a first draft of the Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica (an year ago), with the goal of perfecting it. I will do the same for the other two Terminologies, in behalf of the project.

My proposal:

1. Collaboration for the Terminologia Histologica. I can make a first version of translation in Romanian, but I need a more educated (in this field) person to verify the terms and offer suggestions, preferably an IFAA member. This proposal is in behalf of the Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ) and would be considered an educated volunteering effort and credits will be given.

2. Coordinating my graduation thesis on the subject of proposing a Romanian translation of Terminologia Histologica. In this, I plan to make my own translation, research each term and show references (book, author, page, line) of how it was translated in other publications and make the final proposal. The result of my work will be included in the project.

We have managed to put the TH data in Database form here:

Also, the TA (along with my translation) can be found here:

and full download of data at 

https://github.com/ctzurcanu/smp/tree/master/data

Further information:

http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php

http://sliced.ro/blog/ (with tutorials for Navigator 2D:)

http://sliced.ro/smp/nav2d.php (our recent project)

http://sliced.ro/histo/ (future project - we aim at mapping the TH concepts on histology images - we are now building technology for this, as you can see in this demo: http://sliced.ro/plate/

features:
-plate can be moved, resized
-description can be translated into any languages, moved, resized )

My choice of addressing you in the English language is due to the fact that the SMP is an international volunteering effort and all collaboration is in English. Therefore, I expect your response will be in English also ( personal CV states English proficiency: http://histology.ro/Histology/Colectiv_files/CV_Radu_Eugen.pdf ). If not, all discussions will be translated in English.

I have also contacted Teaching Assistant Nicolescu Mihnea Ioan of U.M.F. "C. Davila", with the same proposals.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:34:06 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear all

Thank you for your email.
I will be happy to assist your efforts of translating Terminologia Histologica.
If I understood correctly, you will translate the 4000+ terms of TH and I will verify the translation along the way, am I correct?
I agree with your proposal, please don't wait to send me all the terms at once (a couple of hundreds at once could be OK).

Regarding the thesis subject, I am not sure that the translation of TH will qualify as a valid subject. Please find this at the dean office and get back to me on the matter.

Looking forward to hearing updates,
Sincerely yours,

Mihnea I. Nicolescu
MD, DMD, OMS, PhD
Assistant Professor, "Carol Davila" University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Cytology and Histology Department
Research assistant, "Victor Babeș" National Institute of Pathology, Molecular Medicine Laboratory
Tel.: +40.722.767.260 * Fax: +40.31.81.65.279 * E-mail: mihnea.n...@gmail.com * Web: www.mihnea.ro


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:
I forgot to add Mr. Tzurcanu to the recipient list. My apologies.



On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

My name is Loredana Cirstea, 6th year student at U.M.F. "Carol Davila", General Medicine and Project Manager for the Sapiens Mapping Project.

Volunteering for the aforementioned project has shown the need for having an official Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica and Terminologia Embryologica. As far as I know, neither of them exists. For clarity, I am not talking about various Romanian translations used in other publications or articles, I am talking about an official one, approved by FIPAT ( http://www.ifaa.net/index.php/fipat ). If I am mistaken, please correct me and provide a pointer to the data.

The Sapiens Mapping Project has begun collaboration with Prof. Sprumont of FIPAT, receiving the Latin and English official translations for the three Terminologies and the approval to make them accessible (web, mobile apps, database format) and free.

I personally made a first draft of the Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica (an year ago), with the goal of perfecting it. I will do the same for the other two Terminologies, in behalf of the project.

My proposal:

1. Collaboration for the Terminologia Histologica. I can make a first version of translation in Romanian, but I need a more educated (in this field) person to verify the terms and offer suggestions, preferably an IFAA member. This proposal is in behalf of the Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ) and would be considered an educated volunteering effort and credits will be given.

2. Coordinating my graduation thesis on the subject of proposing a Romanian translation of Terminologia Histologica. In this, I plan to make my own translation, research each term and show references (book, author, page, line) of how it was translated in other publications and make the final proposal. The result of my work will be included in the project.

We have managed to put the TH data in Database form here:

Also, the TA (along with my translation) can be found here:

and full download of data at 

https://github.com/ctzurcanu/smp/tree/master/data

Further information:

http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php

http://sliced.ro/blog/ (with tutorials for Navigator 2D:)

http://sliced.ro/smp/nav2d.php (our recent project)

http://sliced.ro/histo/ (future project - we aim at mapping the TH concepts on histology images - we are now building technology for this, as you can see in this demo: http://sliced.ro/plate/

features:
-plate can be moved, resized
-description can be translated into any languages, moved, resized )

My choice of addressing you in the English language is due to the fact that the SMP is an international volunteering effort and all collaboration is in English. Therefore, I expect your response will be in English also ( personal CV states English proficiency: http://histology.ro/Histology/Colectiv_files/Nicolescu_MI_CVweb_15oct2013.pdf). If not, all discussions will be translated in English.

I am also contacting Prof. Eugen Radu of U.M.F. "C. Davila", with the same proposals.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:34:20 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

I did not hear from you related to the reasons for which my thesis subject could be rejected. However, I have initiated discussion with the Dean, even though I do not have an official response. Still, this should not concern you. I assume responsibility for the outcome. Therefore, the question is this: can I count on you, coordinating my eventual thesis paper, as detailed previously?

Please answer in at most 36 hours, because there is a deadline for the title and coordinator application.

Thank you,
Loredana Cirstea.


On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

Thank you for your speedy reply and for your willingness to volunteer.


I will respond to every issue:

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear all

Thank you for your email.
I will be happy to assist your efforts of translating Terminologia Histologica.
If I understood correctly, you will translate the 4000+ terms of TH and I will verify the translation along the way, am I correct?
I agree with your proposal, please don't wait to send me all the terms at once (a couple of hundreds at once could be OK).


Yes, that is correct. We are now working on a pre-translation. Because I have already translated Terminologia Anatomica in Romanian (not yet overviewed officially) , I have created a database with every Latin word from TA and its correspondent in English and Romanian. Therefore, we have already automatically pre-translated  about half the terms from Terminologia Histologica. In the next four days I will finish translating the ~2000 Latin words that remain untranslated and after that, I will have an automatic first draft. So, a week from now, I will be able to go through the first 200 TH terms and offer them to be corrected.


The part where I will translate every Latin word is very important, because I will actually make a mini-dictionary, taking in consideration different translations, declinations etc. And when someone decides that a translation of a word is better than another, it will automatically replace the word throughout the terminologies. The result will be a more consistent translation. Also, I will write a script for a more accurate automated translation.

 

Regarding the thesis subject, I am not sure that the translation of TH will qualify as a valid subject. Please find this at the dean office and get back to me on the matter.

I wrote an email to the dean (official email from http://umf.ro ). I wanted to also get an audience today, but it was impossible, due to archaic rules and poor organization. Nonetheless, please tell me why my proposal could run the risk of being rejected. And, for clarity, I will restate my contribution to the matter:

1. a personal Romanian translation of the terms

2. I will present past Romanian translations of each term (with bibliographical references)

3. I will link every latin word to it’s various Romanian translations, through an index

4. with 3. , I will create an algorithm for a semi-automatic translation of the terms, in case of future changes in the terminologies.

5. I will make a final proposal of a Romanian translation, supervised by my chosen coordinator and I will publish it in the digital format I talked about earlier.

The result of my work will be included in the project.


Until I can clarify my thesis situation, I hope I can count on your help in the Sapiens Mapping Project.

 

Looking forward to hearing updates,
Sincerely yours,

Mihnea I. Nicolescu
MD, DMD, OMS, PhD
Assistant Professor, "Carol Davila" University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Cytology and Histology Department
Research assistant, "Victor Babeș" National Institute of Pathology, Molecular Medicine Laboratory


I will share one of our ideas for the medium-term future. Now, the Internet (created with the precise goal of facilitating scientific research) is an environment of intellectual confusion or marketing. We want to begin with the first step: correct medical terms, which can be accessed separately, through an individual link, from the official source. In other words, anyone who wants to use a specific term will be able to offer a direct link to the official source, eliminating the fear of incorrectness of information. In addition, any change of information will not affect those who have used the link. Imagine this concept extended to all scientific information. I will include a summary of this concept, and a simple demo, made by Mr. Tzurcanu: http://sliced.ro/docs/docs/Science.html .


We have high hopes in a collaboration with you,

Thank you for your time,

Loredana Cirstea, SMP.




Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:34:31 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs. Cirstea
Thank you for your email.
First of all, let me assure you of my full cooperation in regarding the TH translation that we previously discussed. I checked, and since I am an AAA member (Association of American Anatomists) and AAA is a member of IFAA, therefore I am an IFAA member. (I remember that was one of your pre-requisite on the matter).
Secondly, regarding your diploma thesis, I think that the reasons for this not qualifying as a valid subject would be:
1- there is no actual clinical/preclinical hypothesis, experiments, results so no general/specific parts, only general.
2- although your results of giving to the medical community TA and TH in Romanian mean (from my POV) more than a simple statistical result of some cases of a certain disease , it might be the case that the Dean office would have a different opinion, in accordance with University Charta and educational law(s) (?)
3- I am not sure I am allowed to coordinate your thesis, because starting this year I moved from General Medicine Faculty to Dental Medicine Faculty. Please ask this, too, when you will have the chance to get an appointment at the Dean's office. On the other hand, if they will say that it is OK I will gladly help you (suggestion: you might ask a higher-ranked supervisor, like Dr. Radu Eugen for example and I will coordinate your work, as a tutor (I don't know the English exact corresponding word)).

Let me know the outcome, please!
Success!




Mihnea I. Nicolescu
MD, DMD, OMS, PhD
Assistant Professor, "Carol Davila" University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Cytology and Histology Department
Research assistant, "Victor Babeș" National Institute of Pathology, Molecular Medicine Laboratory
Tel.: +40.722.767.260 * Fax: +40.31.81.65.279 * E-mail: mihnea.n...@gmail.com * Web: www.mihnea.ro


Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:37:25 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

With two days delay, I now have a draft for the Terminologia Histologica, compiled with the translations of approx. 6000 words (they will be available in their final form, dependent on the corrections) and I have put the first 200 terms in a final form. This is the database:


The final form is in the "th" sheet, in "ro_proposed". Also, in "ro_proposed alternatives" are other formes that might be preferred. Please work in the "ro_verified" column. If the proposal is correct, there is no need to write anything in the column. If not, please make the necessary corrections. When there are alternatives, please choose the most suitable. Also, there are repeating terms - it is ok to correct just one of them, as long as they have the same TH id.

I will also work in this document, but I will announce every 300 completed terms, in case you prefer downloading it.

Please make an estimate of how much time you are volunteering to the project. We do not have the technology for automatic time measurement yet.

I will come with details on the graduation thesis when all is clarified. Thank you.

Loredana Cirstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:37:42 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

I write to tell you that I have reached 1000 final terms (the first ones, in the THid order). I have translated aprox. 3000, but the rest could be modified in the next few days. I want to finish all translations in the next 1-2 weeks.

Also, if you have downloaded the document, know that it has suffered some transformations, including some term corrections. Also, I have added Prof. Radu as a collaborator.

I have presented details for working in the document in the prior email, but I have to make an adjustment. If the term in ro_proposed is correct, please write an ok in ro_verified_Nicolescu. It is the only way to have a proof of contribution - that is why it is necessary to work in the online document.

Also, I would like to send you a link to the general collaboration principles of the SMP:

And, some details regarding the ideas for the thesis:
As you will see from point 8., 14., 16., the verified translation plays an important part, as reference for future calculations.

and when will you have the time to start collaboration.

Thank you,
Loredana Cirstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:37:55 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Hello
I will look into it tonight.
I will let you know afterwards an estimated deadline.
Sincerely yours,

Mihnea I. Nicolescu
MD, DMD, OMS, PhD
Assistant Professor, "Carol Davila" University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Cytology and Histology Department
Research assistant, "Victor Babeș" National Institute of Pathology, Molecular Medicine Laboratory
Tel.: +40.722.767.260 * Fax: +40.31.81.65.279 * E-mail: mihnea.n...@gmail.com * Web: www.mihnea.ro


Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:06 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs Cristea
I think I may finish the database this week. Will this be OK from your end?

Sincerely yours,

Mihnea I. Nicolescu
MD, DMD, OMS, PhD
Assistant Professor, "Carol Davila" University of Medicine and Pharmacy, Cytology and Histology Department
Research assistant, "Victor Babeș" National Institute of Pathology, Molecular Medicine Laboratory
Tel.: +40.722.767.260 * Fax: +40.31.81.65.279 * E-mail: mihnea.n...@gmail.com * Web: www.mihnea.ro


Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:17 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Yes. It is ok. The first 1000 terms are ready for correction. For efficiency, I will correct the rest of the terms with your revised translation of the first ones.

Thank you,
Loredana Cîrstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:26 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

I have finished translating the terms. I may need to check one more time for mistakes, but I will start that when you will begin correcting the terms (I have an exam this week).

To clarify, this translation is not my proposed translation, it should be the Romanian "in use" translation of the terms. And it will also be a point of reference for what I personally want to do. 

In hope of collaboration,
Loredana Cîrstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:37 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

I need to know about the official source of the Romanian terms that you will use to correct the database with, or the official source of the terms used for the Celular Biology courses from U.M.F. "Carol Davila".

Thank you,
Loredana Cîrstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:46 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,

It is possible that some of the observations will remain even after the correction and we cannot extract the comments from the Google document directly into a database format, linked with the terms. That is why I ask you to write them all into the column : other_observations_Nicolescu.

If it is possible to choose between translations with few words and translations with multiple words (especially linking words), please choose the one with fewer words. There are multiple problems with making algorithms for terms with a lot of words. The Latin and even English translations are more terse and more computable. That is why my proposed translation will be made to be computable, with a preferred ratio of 1:1 Latin word - Romanian word. I will repost the link to a simple demo made by Christian Tzurcanu on the subject of controlled vocabulary: http://sliced.ro/docs/docs/Science.html# , because this is the direction in which I am going.

If you would like to propose an alternate translation for some/all terms - alternate from the one in use today, I can make another column for it. Please let me know.

I know there are a lot of words which are not included in the Romanian dictionaries, but in the end, when we will have a final translation and a word database, we will forward those words and terms to the Romanian Academy and http://dexonline.ro/ .

Thank you,
Loredana Cîrstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:38:57 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Nicolescu,


On the 25th of November you chose a personal deadline:

“I think I may finish the database this week. Will this be OK from your end?”

At that time, the first 1000 terms were ready for verification. On the 1st of December, I had finished all of the 4256 TH terms, and you started the process of verification - 100 corrected terms. Since then, you have not made any other change to the database, nor announced me of any deadline change. I can guess that you are a busy person, but the deadline was of your choosing and not knowing what to expect prevents me from making the next step in my project algorithm.

I have reached a point in which I will compile a database of bibliographical references for every TH term found in recent Romanian publications and I will give an “in use” version, based on frequency. Taking into account this and the fact that I cannot trust any deadline proposals, I will not use your data (100 terms) for the first version. However, after I will complete ver. 1.0 of TH, all interested will have the possibility to correct and propose a better translation, in a controlled environment (a publication platform of my choice), through a peer-review protocol. This seems to be the best solution for both parties.

Also, I ask again: what are the publications used as source for the Romanian histology terms, by members of U.M.F. “Carol Davila”?

Thank you for your time and I am sorry we could not collaborate at this time.


Respectfully,

Loredana Cîrstea,

6th year Medical Student at U.M.F. “Carol Davila”

Project Manager for SMP.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:39:08 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso.
First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority.
Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way.
Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.

Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu

Sent from my iPhone

Loredana Cirstea

unread,
Sep 30, 2014, 2:39:18 PM9/30/14
to public-...@googlegroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Dr. Mihnea Nicolescu,

I will reply to your email:

"Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso."

My previous email was not intended as disrespectful. At most, it was very direct. I actively choose this type of communication, due to it's objectivity and due to all obstacles common to Romanian collaboration. I will explain further, at the end of this email.

"First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority."

I assumed that something like this was the case. However, I had my own deadline for this phase of the project, from the Project Leader, Mr. Christian Tzurcanu. This and the fact that I did not know if you would return to work on the project (I will also explain at the end of the email), forced me to start this phase myself.

"Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way."

This is also what I want to do. I am now in the phase of choosing a number of known publications from the biggest medical universities in Romania and attach to each TH term, the translation with bibliographical references (+page, row). Then, I will also verify separate words and see if they exist in our dictionaries, also with reference. In the end, I should be doing this type of research, because it can be done without much histological expertise. After finishing, any changes through peer-review will have to also provide bibliographical references and/or explanations for choosing another term. I think that this second part is more suited for an expert of the field.

"Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.
Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu"

I have explained why this is no longer needed. The database that I have provided is already deprecated and the work needed to compile all the bibliographical references shouldn't be your responsibility. 

If you wish to help at this point, please tell me what are the most used Romanian publications, from which I should collect the terms. If you would be willing to lend a hardcopy or point to online resources, you would make my workload lighter.

I want to thank you for your response, because despite the fact that you thought my previous email had an inappropriate tone, you have responded with more respect and carefulness than many other teachers or heads of departments.

Now, the reason I choose to be very direct (I am very careful in order to be objective and not make personal statements), is due to the fact that Romanians in general have a very irresponsible and non-transparent way of collaborating. I am prepared to lose collaborators and make personal sacrifices, if this entails me to follow a correct path.

The reason I did not know if you would still help the project (even though you have reassured me at least two times), is the fact that I have problems with my thesis - with finding a coordinator and even with being accepted inside the Molecular Biology Discipline, even though I accept the possibility of being rejected by the appointed committee, at the presentation time. Still, I have the right to reach that point. I will forward my discussions on this subject, with the Head of the aforementioned discipline and the email sent to one of the Pro-Rectors, because you should probably know what is going on in the University. This is why I did not know your position in the matter.

Thank you for your time and I am looking forward to collaborating on ver. 2 of the TH project.

Respectfully,
Loredana Cirstea.

Loredana Cirstea

unread,
Sep 30, 2014, 2:39:36 PM9/30/14
to public-...@googlegroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>


Dear Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,

This is Christian Tzurcanu, BDFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life) for Sapiens Mapping Project (SMP). I want to make sure you know we mean business :)
I have not had the pleasure to contact you in details regarding our collaboration on SMP, but I will rectify this now. First some considerations regarding this last message: (noting my paragraphs with (CT:))


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr. Mihnea Nicolescu,

I will reply to your email:

"Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso."

My previous email was not intended as disrespectful. At most, it was very direct. I actively choose this type of communication, due to it's objectivity and due to all obstacles common to Romanian collaboration. I will explain further, at the end of this email.

(CT:) I have not noticed any intent from Loredana Cirstea’s part to disrespect you by use of tone or other means. Our project community does not condone lack of respect. If I am wrong, please provide details regarding the part of her message that proves disrespect or attack ad personam. If it exists, she needs to apologize.

 

"First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority."

I assumed that something like this was the case. However, I had my own deadline for this phase of the project, from the Project Leader, Mr. Christian Tzurcanu. This and the fact that I did not know if you would return to work on the project (I will also explain at the end of the email), forced me to start this phase myself.

(CT:) In this project we expect each member to pull the full weight of their words. You have not met by far a deadline that you alone set. You had not communicated before the deadline that it will not be met - something of common sense.

(CT:) We know that one, as a human being, has one’s limits and one cannot be in two places at the same time. This is why something has got to give. And one cannot get credit for being in both places. And maybe this project is not one’s higher priority.

(CT:) I can confirm: by not meeting a deadline that Loredana Cirstea had introduced in the workflow, you have shifted the work expected from your part on her shoulders. Now she has to hurry to do both tasks with the hope that she will meet her own deadline.  

"Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way."

This is also what I want to do. I am now in the phase of choosing a number of known publications from the biggest medical universities in Romania and attach to each TH term, the translation with bibliographical references (+page, row). Then, I will also verify separate words and see if they exist in our dictionaries, also with reference. In the end, I should be doing this type of research, because it can be done without much histological expertise. After finishing, any changes through peer-review will have to also provide bibliographical references and/or explanations for choosing another term. I think that this second part is more suited for an expert of the field.

"Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.
Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu"

I have explained why this is no longer needed. The database that I have provided is already deprecated and the work needed to compile all the bibliographical references shouldn't be your responsibility. 

(CT:) I will have to make this public DB read-only. Just to make sure we don't duplicate work. There will be a next version open to changes as soon as it will be committed.


If you wish to help at this point, please tell me what are the most used Romanian publications, from which I should collect the terms. If you would be willing to lend a hardcopy or point to online resources, you would make my workload lighter.

I want to thank you for your response, because despite the fact that you thought my previous email had an inappropriate tone, you have responded with more respect and carefulness than many other teachers or heads of departments.

Now, the reason I choose to be very direct (I am very careful in order to be objective and not make personal statements), is due to the fact that Romanians in general have a very irresponsible and non-transparent way of collaborating. I am prepared to lose collaborators and make personal sacrifices, if this entails me to follow a correct path.

The reason I did not know if you would still help the project (even though you have reassured me at least two times), is the fact that I have problems with my thesis - with finding a coordinator and even with being accepted inside the Molecular Biology Discipline, even though I accept the possibility of being rejected by the appointed committee, at the presentation time. Still, I have the right to reach that point. I will forward my discussions on this subject, with the Head of the aforementioned discipline and the email sent to one of the Pro-Rectors, because you should probably know what is going on in the University. This is why I did not know your position in the matter.

Thank you for your time and I am looking forward to collaborating on ver. 2 of the TH project.

Respectfully,
Loredana Cirstea.

(CT:) This major change in our workflow had to be operated also because Prof. Eugen Radu has not begun doing any work. Loredana Cirstea's plan was to evaluate the speed of completion of the TH for the professors and, if high enough, make a kind of "double blind experiment" in which each would correct the terms pre-translated by the computer and Loredana Cirstea on separate, isolated documents. Then compare the outcomes with care for discrepancies. Loredana Cirstea had to scrap this plan due to lack of human resource.

(CT:) Do you know any more dedicated students or willful faculty members such as yourself, who would contribute to second version of TH and TA or first version of TE? (Only the first version of TH constitutes the thesis paper for Loredana Cirstea. On the other tasks the project can accept collaborators)

(CT:) Do you know R minimal commands? (how to use a package, to call a function) I want to know if you prefer to collaborate with Loredana Cirstea in R (recommended) or on a spreadsheet for the next version. (I will have to program the framework package for Loredana's own package. So I have to finish before she starts). 

(CT:) There is a lot of work ahead. I hope we will be able to write emails less often and work as a team more effectively. We really need this data for our mapping in at least 3 languages the SMP Histo "deep zoom" library:
(CT:) Later for the Romanian Semantic Web.

We sure mean business and thank you for your time Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,
 Christian Tzurcanu, SMP

Loredana Cirstea

unread,
Sep 30, 2014, 2:39:50 PM9/30/14
to public-...@googlegroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs Cristea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso.
First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority.
Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way.
Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.

Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu
—
Mihnea Nicolescu
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone

Loredana Cirstea

unread,
Sep 30, 2014, 2:40:03 PM9/30/14
to public-...@googlegroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Cc: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


Dear all
We will resume our collaboration after my return, next week.
Sincerely yours,
Mihnea Nicolescu
PS: a suggestion for Mrs Cirstea would be to approach the bioinformatics department for phd thesis (?)

Sent from my iPhone

On 12.12.2013, at 16:31, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,

This is Christian Tzurcanu, BDFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life) for Sapiens Mapping Project (SMP). I want to make sure you know we mean business :)
I have not had the pleasure to contact you in details regarding our collaboration on SMP, but I will rectify this now. First some considerations regarding this last message: (noting my paragraphs with (CT:))
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr. Mihnea Nicolescu,

I will reply to your email:

"Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso."

My previous email was not intended as disrespectful. At most, it was very direct. I actively choose this type of communication, due to it's objectivity and due to all obstacles common to Romanian collaboration. I will explain further, at the end of this email.

(CT:) I have not noticed any intent from Loredana Cirstea’s part to disrespect you by use of tone or other means. Our project community does not condone lack of respect. If I am wrong, please provide details regarding the part of her message that proves disrespect or attack ad personam. If it exists, she needs to apologize.

 
"First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority."

I assumed that something like this was the case. However, I had my own deadline for this phase of the project, from the Project Leader, Mr. Christian Tzurcanu. This and the fact that I did not know if you would return to work on the project (I will also explain at the end of the email), forced me to start this phase myself.

(CT:) In this project we expect each member to pull the full weight of their words. You have not met by far a deadline that you alone set. You had not communicated before the deadline that it will not be met - something of common sense.

(CT:) We know that one, as a human being, has one’s limits and one cannot be in two places at the same time. This is why something has got to give. And one cannot get credit for being in both places. And maybe this project is not one’s higher priority.

(CT:) I can confirm: by not meeting a deadline that Loredana Cirstea had introduced in the workflow, you have shifted the work expected from your part on her shoulders. Now she has to hurry to do both tasks with the hope that she will meet her own deadline.  
"Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way."

This is also what I want to do. I am now in the phase of choosing a number of known publications from the biggest medical universities in Romania and attach to each TH term, the translation with bibliographical references (+page, row). Then, I will also verify separate words and see if they exist in our dictionaries, also with reference. In the end, I should be doing this type of research, because it can be done without much histological expertise. After finishing, any changes through peer-review will have to also provide bibliographical references and/or explanations for choosing another term. I think that this second part is more suited for an expert of the field.
"Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.
Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu"

I have explained why this is no longer needed. The database that I have provided is already deprecated and the work needed to compile all the bibliographical references shouldn't be your responsibility. 

(CT:) I will have to make this public DB read-only. Just to make sure we don't duplicate work. There will be a next version open to changes as soon as it will be committed.


If you wish to help at this point, please tell me what are the most used Romanian publications, from which I should collect the terms. If you would be willing to lend a hardcopy or point to online resources, you would make my workload lighter.

I want to thank you for your response, because despite the fact that you thought my previous email had an inappropriate tone, you have responded with more respect and carefulness than many other teachers or heads of departments.

Now, the reason I choose to be very direct (I am very careful in order to be objective and not make personal statements), is due to the fact that Romanians in general have a very irresponsible and non-transparent way of collaborating. I am prepared to lose collaborators and make personal sacrifices, if this entails me to follow a correct path.

The reason I did not know if you would still help the project (even though you have reassured me at least two times), is the fact that I have problems with my thesis - with finding a coordinator and even with being accepted inside the Molecular Biology Discipline, even though I accept the possibility of being rejected by the appointed committee, at the presentation time. Still, I have the right to reach that point. I will forward my discussions on this subject, with the Head of the aforementioned discipline and the email sent to one of the Pro-Rectors, because you should probably know what is going on in the University. This is why I did not know your position in the matter.

Thank you for your time and I am looking forward to collaborating on ver. 2 of the TH project.

Respectfully,
Loredana Cirstea.

(CT:) This major change in our workflow had to be operated also because Prof. Eugen Radu has not begun doing any work. Loredana Cirstea's plan was to evaluate the speed of completion of the TH for the professors and, if high enough, make a kind of "double blind experiment" in which each would correct the terms pre-translated by the computer and Loredana Cirstea on separate, isolated documents. Then compare the outcomes with care for discrepancies. Loredana Cirstea had to scrap this plan due to lack of human resource.

(CT:) Do you know any more dedicated students or willful faculty members such as yourself, who would contribute to second version of TH and TA or first version of TE? (Only the first version of TH constitutes the thesis paper for Loredana Cirstea. On the other tasks the project can accept collaborators)

(CT:) Do you know R minimal commands? (how to use a package, to call a function) I want to know if you prefer to collaborate with Loredana Cirstea in R (recommended) or on a spreadsheet for the next version. (I will have to program the framework package for Loredana's own package. So I have to finish before she starts). 

(CT:) There is a lot of work ahead. I hope we will be able to write emails less often and work as a team more effectively. We really need this data for our mapping in at least 3 languages the SMP Histo "deep zoom" library:
(CT:) Later for the Romanian Semantic Web.

We sure mean business and thank you for your time Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,
 Christian Tzurcanu, SMP



On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso.
First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority.
Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way.
Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.

Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu

Sent from my iPhone

Loredana Cirstea

unread,
Sep 30, 2014, 2:40:15 PM9/30/14
to public-...@googlegroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Cc: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


Dear Mr. Tzurcanu and Mrs. Cirstea


I will use the same tortuous way of email addressing, by inserting bold fragments with (MN) as my answers:

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,

This is Christian Tzurcanu, BDFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life) for Sapiens Mapping Project (SMP). I want to make sure you know we mean business :)
I have not had the pleasure to contact you in details regarding our collaboration on SMP, but I will rectify this now. First some considerations regarding this last message: (noting my paragraphs with (CT:))


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr. Mihnea Nicolescu,

I will reply to your email:

"Dear Mrs Cîrstea
Thank you for your email.
I am quite unpleasently surprised by your tone, but I am sure that this came from your eagerness in finishing the task as early as possible, in an year you  also have your graduation exam aso."

My previous email was not intended as disrespectful. At most, it was very direct. I actively choose this type of communication, due to it's objectivity and due to all obstacles common to Romanian collaboration. I will explain further, at the end of this email.

(CT:) I have not noticed any intent from Loredana Cirstea’s part to disrespect you by use of tone or other means. Our project community does not condone lack of respect. If I am wrong, please provide details regarding the part of her message that proves disrespect or attack ad personam. If it exists, she needs to apologize.

(MN): The general tone of the message was that of a boss who sacks his employee. Not at all appreciated. It's not about any attack ad personam, but LC clearly forgot that I was asked for help and not the other way around. 
 

"First of all, I estimated a deadline based on my active tasks at the time. Not that would concern you, nor trying to excuse myself, but since then several new tasks appeared (e.g. being invited to Hannover, Germany for a collaboration proposal, where I currently am and will return only at the end of this week). Consequently, I had to thoroughly prepare my visit and this became my top priority."

I assumed that something like this was the case. However, I had my own deadline for this phase of the project, from the Project Leader, Mr. Christian Tzurcanu. This and the fact that I did not know if you would return to work on the project (I will also explain at the end of the email), forced me to start this phase myself.

(CT:) In this project we expect each member to pull the full weight of their words. You have not met by far a deadline that you alone set. You had not communicated before the deadline that it will not be met - something of common sense.

(MN): I have not been informed about any other deadlines that LC or you have set. Consequently, I postponed my own deadline without informing anyone, since I formulated "I THINK I MAY finish...". Notice both the "think" and "may" which clearly indicate an estimation, so the part with "full weight of one's words" is really exaggerated. As it is "you have not met by far". Since LC's deadlines are so thoroughly met, why was the choosing for a graduation thesis only on her agenda in the 6th year and not one or two years earlier, as most of medical students do? Was it not the case also of a "by far non-met deadline"?

(CT:) We know that one, as a human being, has one’s limits and one cannot be in two places at the same time. This is why something has got to give. And one cannot get credit for being in both places. And maybe this project is not one’s higher priority.

(CT:) I can confirm: by not meeting a deadline that Loredana Cirstea had introduced in the workflow, you have shifted the work expected from your part on her shoulders. Now she has to hurry to do both tasks with the hope that she will meet her own deadline.  

(MN): By rejecting my contribution (small, so far) to the current status of the project shows little respect for my work and this fact does not lay the grounds for a respectful collaboration.
 

"Secondly, as you already know, there is no Romanian source for the histological terms, otherwise you wouldn't have attempted a translation for them. I  take each term and, konwing its "popular" and currently in-use translation and look for possible versions in academic dictionaries and similar translations in histology literature in other Romanic languages (French, Italian, Spanish), finally checking whether its etimology adapts to Romanian grammar mechanisms. I could have checked supperficialy all of your database, but I preferred to do it in a professional way."

This is also what I want to do. I am now in the phase of choosing a number of known publications from the biggest medical universities in Romania and attach to each TH term, the translation with bibliographical references (+page, row). Then, I will also verify separate words and see if they exist in our dictionaries, also with reference. In the end, I should be doing this type of research, because it can be done without much histological expertise. After finishing, any changes through peer-review will have to also provide bibliographical references and/or explanations for choosing another term. I think that this second part is more suited for an expert of the field.

"Thirdly, I will however finish the database after my return to Bucharest and send it to you. It will be your choice whether you will use it or not, depending on your porject status at the time of my submittance.
Wishing you success and reminding you that will send the database as previously discussed - this time not proposing any deadline -,

Sincerely yours,
Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu"

I have explained why this is no longer needed. The database that I have provided is already deprecated and the work needed to compile all the bibliographical references shouldn't be your responsibility. 

(CT:) I will have to make this public DB read-only. Just to make sure we don't duplicate work. There will be a next version open to changes as soon as it will be committed.
 
(MN): I will gladly contribute for TH 2.0 as an independent reviewer, after carefully reading the SMP guidelines. I thought that a simple collaboration would be the case here, and not complicated cross-language group emails, that  When someone asks for my help, I am happy to offer it, but I am not at all amused to be patronised and even remonstrated, which rapidly leads to my loss of both interest and willingness.


If you wish to help at this point, please tell me what are the most used Romanian publications, from which I should collect the terms. If you would be willing to lend a hardcopy or point to online resources, you would make my workload lighter.

I want to thank you for your response, because despite the fact that you thought my previous email had an inappropriate tone, you have responded with more respect and carefulness than many other teachers or heads of departments.

Now, the reason I choose to be very direct (I am very careful in order to be objective and not make personal statements), is due to the fact that Romanians in general have a very irresponsible and non-transparent way of collaborating. I am prepared to lose collaborators and make personal sacrifices, if this entails me to follow a correct path.

The reason I did not know if you would still help the project (even though you have reassured me at least two times), is the fact that I have problems with my thesis - with finding a coordinator and even with being accepted inside the Molecular Biology Discipline, even though I accept the possibility of being rejected by the appointed committee, at the presentation time. Still, I have the right to reach that point. I will forward my discussions on this subject, with the Head of the aforementioned discipline and the email sent to one of the Pro-Rectors, because you should probably know what is going on in the University. This is why I did not know your position in the matter.

Thank you for your time and I am looking forward to collaborating on ver. 2 of the TH project.

Respectfully,
Loredana Cirstea.

(CT:) This major change in our workflow had to be operated also because Prof. Eugen Radu has not begun doing any work. Loredana Cirstea's plan was to evaluate the speed of completion of the TH for the professors and, if high enough, make a kind of "double blind experiment" in which each would correct the terms pre-translated by the computer and Loredana Cirstea on separate, isolated documents. Then compare the outcomes with care for discrepancies. Loredana Cirstea had to scrap this plan due to lack of human resource.

(MN): I am sorry to hear that we (me and Prof. Eugen Radu) were part of the lack of human resource that destabilised your project. I am sure that a proper and respectful communication would have led to better results.

 
(CT:) Do you know any more dedicated students or willful faculty members such as yourself, who would contribute to second version of TH and TA or first version of TE? (Only the first version of TH constitutes the thesis paper for Loredana Cirstea. On the other tasks the project can accept collaborators)

(MN): Since my work speed clearly does not match your intentions, I strongly suggest you one of my former colleagues, a keen dedicated person,  who has both time and interest in this kind of projects - Professor Dr. Madalina Adam. She might be the more suited person you are looking for. You may reach her at madali...@yahoo.com.
 

(CT:) Do you know R minimal commands? (how to use a package, to call a function) I want to know if you prefer to collaborate with Loredana Cirstea in R (recommended) or on a spreadsheet for the next version. (I will have to program the framework package for Loredana's own package. So I have to finish before she starts). 

(MN): No. Spreadsheet.
 
(CT:) There is a lot of work ahead. I hope we will be able to write emails less often and work as a team more effectively. We really need this data for our mapping in at least 3 languages the SMP Histo "deep zoom" library:
(CT:) Later for the Romanian Semantic Web.

(MN): I am wishing you great success with your project(s)!

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:40:27 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


Dear Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,

Thank you for answering.
If you want to simplify the dialogue, we can do it after this point. Starting with this point your contribution is not on Loredana Cirstea's workflow (workflow that she uses on her thesis work). So, after this, my answer and yours can be kept lumped together when this improves readability. 
She was forced to limit the external variables such as dependence on somebody else's schedule just to be able to finish her thesis on time. 
That being the case, your contribution (which we really appreciate), will be part of the projects workflow (that means: my own workflow). Your previous work will be fully imported into my TH subproject.
Here ends the part of my message pertinent to Loredana Cirstea's thesis.

The next messages will be about our collaboration on SMP and TH. As independent of her thesis as possible.

(Another message follows shortly),
Christian Tzurcanu, SMP

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:40:39 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Mihnea-Ioan Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>, Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


to continue:

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Dr. Mihnea I. Nicolescu,

Thank you for answering.
If you want to simplify the dialogue, we can do it after this point. Starting with this point your contribution is not on Loredana Cirstea's workflow (workflow that she uses on her thesis work). So, after this, my answer and yours can be kept lumped together when this improves readability. 
She was forced to limit the external variables such as dependence on somebody else's schedule just to be able to finish her thesis on time. 
That being the case, your contribution (which we really appreciate), will be part of the projects workflow (that means: my own workflow). Your previous work will be fully imported into my TH subproject.
Here ends the part of my message pertinent to Loredana Cirstea's thesis.

The next messages will be about our collaboration on SMP and TH. As independent of her thesis as possible.


now the issues: 
 
1 (MN): The general tone of the message was that of a boss who sacks his employee. Not at all appreciated. It's not about any attack ad personam, but LC clearly forgot that I was asked for help and not the other way around. 

2 (MN): I have not been informed about any other deadlines that LC or you have set. Consequently, I postponed my own deadline without informing anyone, since I formulated "I THINK I MAY finish...". Notice both the "think" and "may" which clearly indicate an estimation, so the part with "full weight of one's words" is really exaggerated. As it is "you have not met by far". Since LC's deadlines are so thoroughly met, why was the choosing for a graduation thesis only on her agenda in the 6th year and not one or two years earlier, as most of medical students do? Was it not the case also of a "by far non-met deadline"?

3 (MN): By rejecting my contribution (small, so far) to the current status of the project shows little respect for my work and this fact does not lay the grounds for a respectful collaboration.

4 (MN): I will gladly contribute for TH 2.0 as an independent reviewer, after carefully reading the SMP guidelines. I thought that a simple collaboration would be the case here, and not complicated cross-language group emails, that  When someone asks for my help, I am happy to offer it, but I am not at all amused to be patronised and even remonstrated, which rapidly leads to my loss of both interest and willingness.

5 lack of human resource.

(MN): I am sorry to hear that we (me and Prof. Eugen Radu) were part of the lack of human resource that destabilised your project. I am sure that a proper and respectful communication would have led to better results.


1. That is factually correct. I would rather equate the tone with one of respectful dismissal from the active/urgent tasks.
2. Loredana Cirstea cannot have loosely-defined deadlines on that workflow. Moreover: her work has started in 2011. She first tried to have her work on TA recognized as thesis, then she decided she may be able to finish TH on a even better workflow.
3. Your contribution cannot be integrated into the initial workflow, but I welcome you and your contribution inside the greater workflow of TH, under task 104.1. Please take a look at my proposed tasks here:
4. I believe you demonstrated willingness to help and I would like you to contribute to 

104 100 A n-independent (with n>=2) peer review of the TH draft
104.1 104 A number of n field experts should "ok" each term
104.2 104 All differences compiled from 104.1 should be carefully treated/referenced and a prefered translation chosen

This will happen before the first public version (before ver. 2.0) but after the ver. 1.0 that Loredana Cirstea is processing for her thesis. Maybe you can organize your own team for this?
I also need a histology expert for:
101 Compile an "almost exhaustive" bibliography pertinent to the subject TBD TBD christian...@gmail.com That means also the books that are not used in our work of translation, but could or may influence it in the future

This last one does not depend on the thesis workflow and you can start at any time.
The project really needs your help. And I can only hope that you will forgive tones, patronization, matters of opinion, in the interest of the final outcome.

5. I consider myself a human resource of the SMP. I hope this term does not seem in any way demeaning for others. I consider my duty to treat others as I would like to be treated. If there is a better way for the project, I would have used it. Our method is to eliminate early the volunteers that care about mannerism (I am not talking about respect, but unnecessary confusion) over content. I personally hope you will also see the advantages of this approach.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:42:23 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 11:24 PM
Subject: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: r.e...@gmail.com, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Radu,

My name is Loredana Cirstea, 6th year student at U.M.F. "Carol Davila", General Medicine and Project Manager for the Sapiens Mapping Project.

Volunteering for the aforementioned project has shown the need for having an official Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica, Terminologia Histologica and Terminologia Embryologica. As far as I know, neither of them exists. For clarity, I am not talking about various Romanian translations used in other publications or articles, I am talking about an official one, approved by FIPAT ( http://www.ifaa.net/index.php/fipat ). If I am mistaken, please correct me and provide a pointer to the data.

The Sapiens Mapping Project has begun collaboration with Prof. Sprumont of FIPAT, receiving the Latin and English official translations for the three Terminologies and the approval to make them accessible (web, mobile apps, database format) and free.

I personally made a first draft of the Romanian translation for the Terminologia Anatomica (an year ago), with the goal of perfecting it. I will do the same for the other two Terminologies, in behalf of the project.

My proposals:

I. Collaboration for the Terminologia Histologica. I can make a first version of translation in Romanian, but I need a more educated (in this field) person to verify the terms and offer suggestions, preferably an IFAA member. This proposal is in behalf of the Sapiens Mapping Project ( GPL licence ver.3 ) and would be considered an educated volunteering effort and credits will be given.

II. Coordinating my graduation thesis on the subject of proposing a Romanian translation of Terminologia Histologica. In this conditions, my personal contribution will be:

1. a personal Romanian translation of the terms
2. I will present past Romanian translations of each term (with bibliographical references)
3. I will link every latin word to it’s various Romanian translations, through an index
4. with 3. , I will create an algorithm for a semi-automatic translation of the terms, in case of future changes in the terminologies.
5. I will make a final proposal of a Romanian translation, supervised by my chosen coordinator and I will publish it in the digital format I talked about earlier.

The result of my work will be included in the project.

We have managed to put the TH data in Database form here:

Also, the TA (along with my translation) can be found here:

and full download of data at 

https://github.com/ctzurcanu/smp/tree/master/data

Further information:

http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php

http://sliced.ro/blog/ (with tutorials for Navigator 2D:)

http://sliced.ro/smp/nav2d.php (our recent project)

http://sliced.ro/histo/ (future project - we aim at mapping the TH concepts on histology images - we are now building technology for this, as you can see in this demo: http://sliced.ro/plate/

features:
-plate can be moved, resized
-description can be translated into any languages, moved, resized )

My choice of addressing you in the English language is due to the fact that the SMP is an international volunteering effort and all collaboration is in English. Therefore, I expect your response will be in English also ( personal CV states English proficiency:http://histology.ro/Histology/Colectiv_files/CV_Radu_Eugen.pdf ). If not, all discussions will be translated in English.

I have also contacted Teaching Assistant Nicolescu Mihnea Ioan of U.M.F. "C. Davila", with the same proposals.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:42:36 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Asst.Prof. Radu,

I write to give you a deadline of response to my previous email: 48 hours, according to the deadline for submitting the title and coordinator for the gratuation thesis.

Thank you,
Loredana Cirstea,
SMP - Project Manager.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:42:48 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs Cirstea,

I am very sorry for such a long delay in answering you. My schedule has been quite erratic for the last few weeks and this is not even an exceptional situation. Thus, I hope you will understand why I decided not to answer your kind invitation of coordinating your graduation thesis: I really fear I will not be able to ensure an even pace and meet deadlines. 

Having said that, I would like to congratulate you for participating in the project of Terminologia translation. I think it is a much needed resource and a large number of further scientific endeavours would benefit of its successful completion. Although I'm not an IFAA member, I would be interested in reviewing the current version of Terminologia Histologica, at first just to get an idea about the role I could play and the time required for making a contribution.

Best regards,
Eugen Radu 

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:42:57 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Prof. Radu,


Thank you for your response. I am very glad to hear that you would consider helping the project.


First, I want to clarify the graduation thesis subject. Regardless of coordinator, it will be done according to the SMP rigors, which are greater than what the UMF “C. Davila” is asking. I will use R language to generate the paper and transform the data, so every step will be recorded and it will be in a very transparent format. I do not need extra help with this. The only thing that I require for my paper is a coordinator’s name and a stamp from the corresponding department.


Unfortunately, Asst.Prof. Nicolescu cannot be a coordinator, even though he was willing, due to the fact that he no longer is part of the General Medicine Faculty. Therefore, I would be grateful if you could recommend someone  from the Cellular and Molecular Medicine Department.


This is the link to the TH, Romanian translations:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlGtDMuhK2dndHpnQTdZTU1CUUoxeHpTWTFqTmpRRXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0


ro_calculated was compiled with my translation of approx. 6000 separate Latin words (they will be available in their final form, dependent on the corrections). In ro_proposed I have put the final form of the TH terms. I have finished the first 600 terms. Also, I have alternate translations or synonyms, but I want to keep the Romanian translation as close to the Latin one as possible.


If you would be willing to correct or choose the best translation for the finished terms, please work in the ro_verified_Radu column. If the proposal (in ro_proposed)  is correct, please put an “ok”. If not, please make the necessary corrections. When there are alternatives, please choose the most suitable. Also, there are repeating terms - it is ok to correct just one of them, as long as they have the same TH id.


Please let me know if you are interested in collaborating. If so, I will send an update every 500 translated terms. If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer.


Thank you for your time,

Loredana Cirstea, SMP.


Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:43:06 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>


Hello!

In legatura cu lucrarea de licenta cred ca putem comunica in limba romana :) Daca nu necesita prea mult timp din partea mea, atunci sunt de acord sa fiu coordonatorul / indrumatorul tau pentru licenta. Oricum, as dori sa vad ce date ai si, in cazul in care si tu doresti sa colaboram, voi dori sa am un cuvant de spus despre lucrare. In plus, m-ai facut curios: cum folosesti R pentru subiectul tau? Daca vrei, propune-mi o data cand imi poti face o vizita si discutam atunci mai multe. Eu voi fi plecat in perioada 15 - 22 noiembrie, deci ne putem vedea cel mai devreme luni 25 noiembrie. Daca vrei, imi poti telefona la 0740192969.

Now, regarding the TH project, I will start reviewing as soon as possible, but I think I'll be able to increase pace only after Nov. 25th. Let me first get used to the task at hand, and then I'll ask more questions or discuss relevant issues. And thank you for the link to the document.

Best regards,
Eugen Radu

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:43:14 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


First, I will like to send a link to the general collaboration principles of the SMP: 

Because my thesis uses resources from the SMP, namely the Terminologia Histologica, as it was offered by FIPAT, and it is part of the SMP, all collaboration and work will abide the general collaboration principles.

Therefore, I will kindly ask you to use the English language in all discussions. Also, all discussions pertaining to the thesis/SMP should be in writing, to avoid misunderstandings and increase efficiency - including establishing details for eventual meetings.

I will now translate the Romanian part from your previous email:
"Regarding the graduation thesis, I think we can communicate in Romanian :) If it does not require too much time from my part, I will agree to be your thesis coordinator. I would like to see what data you are using and, if you want a collaboration, I would like to have a say regarding the thesis. In addition, I am curious: how do you use R in this subject? If you want, give me a date when you can visit me and we will talk more then. I will be away from 15 to 22nd of November, so the earliest that we can meet is the 25th of November. If you want, you can call me at 0740192969."

Further details regarding the thesis (it also explains how I use R):

Thank you and please let me know if the aforementioned terms of collaboration suit you. Please Reply to All when you do.
Loredana Cirstea.

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:43:23 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>


Dear Prof. Radu,


Given that fact that you have not replied to my previous email dated 15 November 2013, I conclude that you do not wish to collaborate in the context of my aforementioned terms, or have lost interest in this project.

If you do not reply in the next 48 hours, I will consider my offer of collaboration for coordinating my graduation thesis on the Terminologia Histologica, declined. Also, collaboration for the TH project within the Sapiens Mapping Project, will be put on hold.

I have reached a point, in which I will compile a database of bibliographical references for every TH term found in recent Romanian publications and I will give an “in use” version, based on frequency.

However, after I will complete ver. 1.0 of TH, all interested will have the possibility to correct and propose a better translation, in a controlled environment (a publication platform of my choice), through a peer-review protocol. This seems to be the best solution for both parties.

Also, please tell me what are the publications used as source for the Romanian histology terms, by members of U.M.F. “Carol Davila”?

Thank you for your time and I am sorry we could not collaborate at this time.


Respectfully,

Loredana Cîrstea,

6th year Medical Student at U.M.F. “Carol Davila”

Project Manager for SMP.


Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:43:32 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Cc: Mihai Hinescu <mhin...@yahoo.com>, Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>


Dear Mrs. Cîrstea,

In part your conclusion is valid: I have lost interest in this project. There are a number a factors that have led to my current opinion:

- Lack of transparency: although you took care to point out the "SMP collaboration principles" (which, in my opinion, are mere Capitalized Words in the absence of underlying functional mechanisms), there was no way I could find out more details (public information) about the "Sapiens Mapping Project": whether it is an academic or commercial endeavour, who are its initiators, what is the relation between your project and the public domain TH (and how the latter could have turned into a "SMP resource"), what is your exact intellectual property management policy, etc. Given these concerns and taking into account your attitude I fear I might be in breach of SMP's conditions by using in my activity terms such as "celulă" (H1.00.01.0.00001) or "citoplasmă" (H1.00.01.0.00004).

- I think there is a need for coherent translation and use of anatomical/histological terms in Romanian. Having said that, I doubt your approach is the right one. Compiling lists of individual words as they appear in TH, translating them, and replacing them in the initial verbal constructions in a syntax- and semantics-agnostic manner may sometimes lead to less-than-optimal translations. I'll leave it to you to find examples in the 0.8 release of TH.

- The "SMP rigors", "greater than what the UMF “C. Davila” is asking" in your opinion, seem to place little emphasis on proper documentation and citation of sources, since it is only now that you have reached a point where consulting "bibliographical references" is deemed necessary.

In conclusion, I duly take note of your declining of collaboration offer. I will also take the liberty to forward this message, in virtue of SMP's principles of Transparency, Meritocracy, Ethics, to my colleagues prof. Hinescu and dr. Nicolescu. Since I was never formally introduced to Mr. Tzurcanu, SMP Leader, I will not bother him with my reply.

Regards,
Eugen Radu

Loredana Cirstea

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Sep 30, 2014, 2:43:41 PM9/30/14
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Loredana Cirstea <loredana...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Terminologia Histologica - Romanian Translation
To: Eugen Radu <r.e...@gmail.com>, Christian Tzurcanu <christian...@gmail.com>
Cc: Mihai Hinescu <mhin...@yahoo.com>, Mihnea Nicolescu <mihnea.n...@gmail.com>


Dear Prof. Radu,


I have delayed my response, in order to finish the task of bringing the TH structure (from the Terminologia Histologica official publication) into a computable form and making the work public.


The raw data (in .cvs form: thtree.csv) can be downloaded from:

https://github.com/ctzurcanu/smp/ ( /data/thtree.csv ), using the Raw command. I have not provided a direct link to the data, in order for you to see the license under which the project’s data is published.


You can also view the TH tree ( made using thtree.csv ), on the project’s site: http://sliced.ro/labs/th/ . This is a first draft. We are in the process of revising the data before we make it available to the general public.


I will reply to your previous email:


“Dear Mrs. Cîrstea,


In part your conclusion is valid: I have lost interest in this project. There are a number a factors that have led to my current opinion:


- Lack of transparency: although you took care to point out the "SMP collaboration principles" (which, in my opinion, are mere Capitalized Words in the absence of underlying functional mechanisms), “


The SMP collaboration principles ( http://sliced.ro/docs/collab.php ) are rules of moral behaviour which should be applied in any collaboration (not only the SMP). If you have a better proposal, please give your advice. If I have broken any of them, please let me know. If you do not feel comfortable with them, it is your right to refuse collaboration with the project, both in your personal and official qualities.


“there was no way I could find out more details (public information) about the "Sapiens Mapping Project": whether it is an academic or commercial endeavour, who are its initiators, what is the relation between your project and the public domain TH (and how the latter could have turned into a "SMP resource"), what is your exact intellectual property management policy, etc. “


Public information can be found on the site and using Google Search with: “Sapiens Mapping Project”. You probably wanted to find external validation, meaning other sources pointing to and presenting our project. The project has not yet grown to that state. However, I have already provided a link to the project’s description ( http://sliced.ro/docs/about.php ):

“The Sapiens Mapping Project is an international volunteering effort to make Medical Knowledge free, accessible and computable.”

“The Sapiens Mapping Project functions under GNU GPLv3” etc.


It should be clear that our intention is to make all volunteered data free, public and accessible ( not commercial ). Our terminology data until now is published on github (my first link) and on the site (http://sliced.ro/smp/ontology.php#browse) our work on the 2D human slices is publicly available (http://sliced.ro/smp/nav2d.php) with explanations for use (http://sliced.ro/blog/).


We give credit to FIPAT for the TH and TA. As to our relation with FIPAT, I will copy a statement from my first email to you:

“The Sapiens Mapping Project has begun collaboration with Prof. Sprumont of FIPAT, receiving the Latin and English official translations for the three Terminologies and the approval to make them accessible (web, mobile apps, database format) and free.”


“Given these concerns and taking into account your attitude I fear I might be in breach of SMP's conditions by using in my activity terms such as "celulă" (H1.00.01.0.00001) or "citoplasmă" (H1.00.01.0.00004).”


When using the id H1.00.01.0.00001 in relation with the term "celulă" , one should cite FIPAT. Otherwise, it is just another public word from the Romanian language.


- I think there is a need for coherent translation and use of anatomical/histological terms in Romanian. Having said that, I doubt your approach is the right one. Compiling lists of individual words as they appear in TH, translating them, and replacing them in the initial verbal constructions in a syntax- and semantics-agnostic manner may sometimes lead to less-than-optimal translations. I'll leave it to you to find examples in the 0.8 release of TH.


This is the actual method used by FIPAT, as we have been told by Prof. Sprumont. They have a database of Latin words which are used in creating the terms. It is important to have the direct Latin-Romanian translation as reference, especially because Prof. Sprumont has told us that FIPAT prefers a translation close to Latin.


- The "SMP rigors", "greater than what the UMF “C. Davila” is asking" in your opinion, seem to place little emphasis on proper documentation and citation of sources, since it is only now that you have reached a point where consulting "bibliographical references" is deemed necessary.


I considered two approaches. The first one was to ask multiple (at least two) specialists in the field for correction of the terms, in order to compare them. I could not find at least two willing specialists. The second one, was to cite sources for every term. This was the order in my workflow. Therefore, I am currently using the second approach. Therefore, I remind you of my question: what sources could I use for the U.M.F. "C. Davila" version of Romanian terms? The bibliography is not available on the University site.


The only public rigors of U.M.F. “Carol Davila”, in what the graduation thesis is concerned are found on the official site:

Anexa nr. 1 – Ghid de redactare şi prezentare a lucrării de licenţă

Anexa nr. 2 – Fişă de evaluare a lucrării de licenţă de către Comisia de evaluare

If you have knowledge of other public rigors, please guide me to them.


In conclusion, I duly take note of your declining of collaboration offer. I will also take the liberty to forward this message, in virtue of SMP's principles of Transparency, Meritocracy, Ethics, to my colleagues prof. Hinescu and dr. Nicolescu. Since I was never formally introduced to Mr. Tzurcanu, SMP Leader, I will not bother him with my reply.


Regards,

Eugen Radu


I am not declining collaboration. Due to the fact that you have declined the coordination of my thesis by not replying to “Thank you and please let me know if the aforementioned terms of collaboration suit you.” (15 Nov) and to my previous email “If you do not reply in the next 48 hours, I will consider my offer of collaboration for coordinating my graduation thesis on the Terminologia Histologica, declined.” (12 Dec), I was forced to apply the aforementioned approach. I have already explained why your collaboration with the SMP will be put on hold in my previous email. If you have another proposal, I am open to discussion.


Please consider giving constructive criticism if you intend to reply: when you are against one of my/the SMP solutions/methods, please give an exact alternative. It does not help if you just state that it is not good.

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