node infrastructure improvement
Russell Senior
On Sunday afternoon, I was alerted that we had problems at our
LuckyLab node on SE Hawthorne. In working to get it up and running
again, we encountered a problem of growing significance.
About 30 of our nodes use the old nucab boxes as routers/captive
portals. These were built out of donated PCs and installed years ago.
They are bulky, make noise, use energy and occasionally fail, but the
bigger problem now is that they were often built with a partitioning
scheme that will no longer allow the operating system software to be
updated without substantial gyrations. To upgrade them would be very
labor intensive, during a time when available Personal Telco volunteer
hours are very limited.
An alternative to the nucabs which is much smaller, uses much less
electricity (about 5 or 6 Watts), is fanless so it makes no noise, and
is actually faster and has more RAM, is the Alix.2d3 board that I have
been bringing to recent meetings. It has three ethernet ports, which
is enough for any PTP node application that I know of. It even does
passive Power over Ethernet. They are more than powerful enough to
run our old familiar NoCatAuth captive portal.
I put one of these together as an experiment and used it at the One
Web Day event in September and it worked great. There would be a
little more work involved in developing the software to go onto the
devices, but that work would amortize across the whole deployment.
This afternoon, I priced out what it would cost to purchase the
hardware for 30 of these, to completely replace the old nucabs. The
total is (assuming $20 per 1GB CompactFlash card) $5200. That
includes the Alix 2D3 board, an indoor enclosure, a 15V switching
power supply, a passive PoE injector and the CompactFlash card. That
comes out to $173 per device. Personal Telco has some cash, but not
enough to cover that cost. A substantial fraction of it would need to
be raised from donations, grants or some other fund-raising scheme.
There is an argument that we don't need the nucab or any replacement,
that if the nucabs are becoming unmaintainable, we should just unplug
the nucab and use a plain wireless router. I think the nucab and/or
its replacement does serve several useful functions:
a) it allows for a captive portal, which in turn:
1) allows us to communicate with node users;
2) lets the node host claim credit for hosting the node;
3) it allows us to track the amount of usage, to help understand
how well our nodes are serving the community.
b) it allows for remote debugging and administration of nodes, which
reduces the time lag involved in waiting for problem reports to
filter back and the volunteer time to visit the node to
diagnose. Having a nucab or alternative present reduces the
maintenance burden.
c) it allows for network abusers to be identified and blocked
individually rather than en-mass.
d) it allows the construction of vpn tunnels that allow remote
administration even through non-cooperative upstream nat'ing
gateways.
It might be possible in some instances to replace the nucabs with
something cheaper than an alix, such as one of our Netgear WGT634U.
That is true, however:
a) some problems have been reported with the wifidog captive portal
we've used with the WGT.
b) the WGT is not as robust in extremes of temperature and usage as
the Alix
c) The WGT probably does not have the processing power to handle vpn
tunnels so well.
In review, the existing nucab infrastructure is rotting. Few people
know how to fix them. We can no longer keep their software upgraded
as we have in the past. It is just a matter of time until they start
to fail in a manner that is impractical to fix. It seems to me that
now is the time to think about how to replace them, and that the Alix
looks like a nice way to do that.
Thoughts? Comments?
--
Russell Senior, Secretary
rus...@personaltelco.net
Johan Beisser
But, is the cost including mouting hardware and the minipci wifi card?
The $173 price tag strikes me that it doesn't.
Am I correct to assume no chassis and transplanting the existing wifi
card from the nucab?
Sent from my mobile device
Russell Senior
Johan> What little I've seen of the ALIX board impressed me.
Johan> But, is the cost including mouting hardware and the minipci
Johan> wifi card? The $173 price tag strikes me that it doesn't.
Johan> Am I correct to assume no chassis and transplanting the
Johan> existing wifi card from the nucab?
No. The existing nucabs are almost uniformily headless 233MHz
two-ethernet port recycled PCs acting as routers with no built-in
wifi. They draw about 60W each. The Alix draws 6W or less.
The reason we did it this way historically is that we had cast-off
PC's donated to us. We had more time and parts than money. It also
allowed us to use any old wireless access point, and we could just
plug the cat5 from the nucab into the wireless device's LAN port and
it bridges for us. The nucab/alix can be near power and the DSL
modem, while the wireless access point can be located near where
people use it.
The $173 includes the board, small enclosure, the CF and power supply.
The enclosure is for indoors and doesn't need mounting hardware beyond
the little rubber feet it comes with.
Because this Alix board has three ethernet interfaces, places like the
Lucky Lab that has two AP's could be connected directly (bridging eth1
and eth2) and we could eliminate the network switch we have there as
well. In other locations, we could use the extra ethernet port to
While this Alix board *can* have a wifi radio installed (it has one
mini-pci slot), in most of these nucab replacement scenarios, we
wouldn't. The node already has a working wireless device. Just
unplug the cat5 cables from the nucab and plug them into the Alix and
away you go.
johan beisser
On Nov 17, 2008, at 9:26 PM, Russell Senior wrote:
>
> The $173 includes the board, small enclosure, the CF and power supply.
> The enclosure is for indoors and doesn't need mounting hardware beyond
> the little rubber feet it comes with.
That's a pretty good cost. I'm tempted to grab one for myself based on
that.
> While this Alix board *can* have a wifi radio installed (it has one
> mini-pci slot), in most of these nucab replacement scenarios, we
> wouldn't. The node already has a working wireless device. Just
> unplug the cat5 cables from the nucab and plug them into the Alix and
> away you go.
That's far simpler than what I'd assumed. Sorry for misunderstanding
how the nucab boxes were implemented.
Russell Senior
Russell> [...] The existing nucabs are almost uniformily headless
Russell> 233MHz two-ethernet port recycled PCs acting as routers with
Russell> no built-in wifi. They draw about 60W each. The Alix draws
Russell> 6W or less.
By the way, according to a recent Pacific Power electric bill, the
saving by switching to an Alix would be about $38 in the first year,
based on a marginal price of electricity of $0.08/kwh.
Tyler Booth
Tyler Booth // President ph. 503.548.2000 | fx. 503.548.2002
921 SW Washington St, Suite 224
Portland OR 97205
Michael Weinberg
<rus...@personaltelco.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Sunday afternoon, I was alerted that we had problems at our
> LuckyLab node on SE Hawthorne. In working to get it up and running
> again, we encountered a problem of growing significance.
>
> About 30 of our nodes use the old nucab boxes as routers/captive
> portals. These were built out of donated PCs and installed years ago.
> They are bulky, make noise, use energy and occasionally fail, but the
> bigger problem now is that they were often built with a partitioning
> scheme that will no longer allow the operating system software to be
> updated without substantial gyrations. To upgrade them would be very
> labor intensive, during a time when available Personal Telco volunteer
> hours are very limited.
I'm shocked (and maybe relieved) that the total is that low. How many
have had their NuCabs replaced with a WRT/WGT or just been downgraded
to an AP going into the DSL modem?
> An alternative to the nucabs which is much smaller, uses much less
> electricity (about 5 or 6 Watts), is fanless so it makes no noise, and
> is actually faster and has more RAM, is the Alix.2d3 board that I have
> been bringing to recent meetings. It has three ethernet ports, which
> is enough for any PTP node application that I know of. It even does
> passive Power over Ethernet. They are more than powerful enough to
> run our old familiar NoCatAuth captive portal.
They are sleek, as well.
> I put one of these together as an experiment and used it at the One
> Web Day event in September and it worked great. There would be a
> little more work involved in developing the software to go onto the
> devices, but that work would amortize across the whole deployment.
>
> This afternoon, I priced out what it would cost to purchase the
> hardware for 30 of these, to completely replace the old nucabs. The
> total is (assuming $20 per 1GB CompactFlash card) $5200. That
> includes the Alix 2D3 board, an indoor enclosure, a 15V switching
> power supply, a passive PoE injector and the CompactFlash card. That
> comes out to $173 per device. Personal Telco has some cash, but not
> enough to cover that cost. A substantial fraction of it would need to
> be raised from donations, grants or some other fund-raising scheme.
I think raising donations is a good idea, I don't think that seeking a
grant specifically to replace nucabs is a good idea. Here's why:
Foundations want to make gifts that expand organizations, they don't
want to be ongoing supporters. The nucabs were initially received as
donations. In that sense, they allowed PTP to build the organization
by giving us hardware that allowed us to handle routing, displaying
the captive portal, remote maintenance, etc. That is now a part of
PTP, and PTP is responsible for maintaining that infrastructure, which
includes replacing it as necessary with newer/better hardware. Seeking
a grant to cover the replacement suggests that we are not financially
sustainable and also means that we'd burn a grant opportunity on
something that we can and should fund ourselves.
If, however, by replacing the nucabs with the alix devices we were
also able to build our volunteer capacity, or introduce new outreach
efforts, it would make sense to seek foundation funding, because that
would represent an expansion of PTP's efforts. I feel like this may
exist, but I can't really place my finger on it.
> There is an argument that we don't need the nucab or any replacement,
> that if the nucabs are becoming unmaintainable, we should just unplug
> the nucab and use a plain wireless router. I think the nucab and/or
> its replacement does serve several useful functions:
I don't think they should be unplugged or allowed to rot. But I do
think the onus is on PTP and not a generous foundation to replace
them. They have served many thousands of people over the years, so
there are many beneficiaries who might be receptive to a request for
help. PTP is about the community and it's time we asked the community
to do their part. A reasonable goal might be 50% of the replacement
cost from new donations.
--
Michael Weinberg
President
Personal Telco Project, Inc.
A 501(c)(3) Non-Profit
Don Park
> something cheaper than an alix, such as one of our Netgear WGT634U.
> That is true, however:
PTP has a sizable stash of WGTs. i still use a PTP node every day
(Urban Grind NW), and I am convinced the splash pages cause more
trouble than they're worth. the essid of www.personaltelco.net is a
great way to get branding/awareness. noone reads the EULA and its
legal standing is dubious. I suggest nucabs be replaced with WGTs with
no captive portal. Remote debugging and usage tracking can be done
with ssh and iptables. It costs $0 to implement.
Don
Charles Wyble
> Food for thought: The Ubiquiti routerstation has a 680Mhz processor
> and 64MB of ram. There is no CF card slot, but it does have a USB2
> interface which would allow a USB stick on board for additional
> storage (above the onboard 16MB flash) if needed. The unit ships with
> a stock installation of OpenWRT.
Fantastic. My local retailer of choice has them for about 70.00 a pop. I
hadn't seen this product. Glad you pointed it out. :)
I can use this as an aggregation router for Socalwifi.net in each
neighborhood.
>
> 3 LAN, 3 mini-pci
>
Just what I need. Awesome.
> Total cost of board + 2GB usb stick (I could not find pricing for 1GB)
> = $73/each
That's a fantastic price point.
Tyler Booth
Now you just have to wait for the new shipment from Ubiquiti to
arrive ;) ....
Should be (almost) just in time for Christmas, most reports indicate
sometime around the end of December/beginning of January as the next
product availability date.
Michael Weinberg
Without a splash page, we would not have the option of doing
fundraising drives (which we've done in the past) and we'd lose the
link to donate (which people do use).
What is the problem with the splash page (other than the issues with
WifiDog+WGT that Russell mentioned)?
Would adding a social/interactive component improve your view of the
splash page? I think you hang out with a lot of the tech types that
I'd love to see helping PTP, so I'd like to know if there's something
we could do to engage them that we aren't doing now.
Russell Senior
Russell> About 30 of our nodes use the old nucab boxes as
Russell> routers/captive portals. [...]
Michael> I'm shocked (and maybe relieved) that the total is that
Michael> low. How many have had their NuCabs replaced with a WRT/WGT
Michael> or just been downgraded to an AP going into the DSL modem?
Very few have been "downgraded", most of the WGT/WRT+wifidog
deployments were new ones. However, those where nucabs were removed
were:
CaffeUno (defunct)
Dittos (defunct)
StaccatoGelato
PioneerSquare
Moonlight (defunct)
RedAndBlack
Nodes that used to have a nucab and now don't have a captive portal
device at all include:
Urban Grind
BillyRay's
GoldRush
And OakTree had a nucab which died, and I've been meaning to get them
a replacement but haven't yet. They were willing to resurrect, though.
Michael> I think raising donations is a good idea, I don't think that
Michael> seeking a grant specifically to replace nucabs is a good
Michael> idea. Here's why:
Michael> Foundations want to make gifts that expand organizations,
Michael> they don't want to be ongoing supporters.
In my own reading of the Meyer Memorial Trust website I saw a
reference to an example of "replacing a roof", which is pretty
similar. I'll concede that this might not seem as sexy as some big
expansion or another neighborhood-wide project, but I don't think we
need to decide for them that our need is not worthy of their
investment. Our grassroots-ness is going to count for something.
I also don't think we have to go the grant route, only that our need
is small and demonstrable and that we shouldn't ignore any potential
source of funding.
Michael> If, however, by replacing the nucabs with the alix devices we
Michael> were also able to build our volunteer capacity, or introduce
Michael> new outreach efforts. [...]
Developing the basic firmware package might be of interest to people.
We've had some ideas for things like prioritizing node-host traffic.
It would be really cool to get people involved in helping to
implement/test those kinds of features.
As far as getting people involved, we need to have something for them
to work on. Coming to meetings and drinking beer is fun, but without
real accomplishments to look back at ... a feeling of emptiness follows.
This is one thing to work on.
Michael> I don't think they should be unplugged or allowed to rot. But
Michael> I do think the onus is on PTP and not a generous foundation
Michael> to replace them. [...]
I'm not prejudging who should fund this or how, but as someone on the
front lines dealing with these things I'd like to suggest that we need
to do something soonish.
Russell Senior
Don> PTP has a sizable stash of WGTs. i still use a PTP node every day
Don> (Urban Grind NW), and I am convinced the splash pages cause more
Don> trouble than they're worth. the essid of www.personaltelco.net is
Don> a great way to get branding/awareness. noone reads the EULA and
Don> its legal standing is dubious. I suggest nucabs be replaced with
Don> WGTs with no captive portal. Remote debugging and usage tracking
Don> can be done with ssh and iptables. It costs $0 to implement.
I will note here that WGT+wifidog has not been reported to have the
problem that we've seen on the Buffalo+wifidog, which implies (as
Tyler once suggested) that memory might be a factor. The WGT has
32meg of RAM, while the Buffalo's we've deployed have half that, I
think.
We do still get occasional complaints about the captive portal timing
out too quickly. It would be nice to fix that. And the problem with
the "Use the Internet" text being too small is occasionally
confusing.
As for ssh/iptables, it would be nice to get some help developing that
approach into something workable. The principle problem for ssh is
where nodes are not on static IPs. One of the utilitarian functions
of wifidog is to send a heartbeat, that tells the authserver where the
hell it is. By looking at the authserver logs, you can tell what IP
it is coming from and if there is a port-forward set up, you can ssh
back in. If you don't have a port-forward, you need something like
openvpn.
I am not completely against using WGTs, though: a) they aren't
replacable; and b) they'd be kind of nice to use in new residential
node deployments, like Pete Forsyth's and PixelFace.
Michael Weinberg
<rus...@personaltelco.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Weinberg <mic...@personaltelco.net> writes:
>
> Michael> I think raising donations is a good idea, I don't think that
> Michael> seeking a grant specifically to replace nucabs is a good
> Michael> idea. Here's why:
>
> Michael> Foundations want to make gifts that expand organizations,
> Michael> they don't want to be ongoing supporters.
>
> In my own reading of the Meyer Memorial Trust website I saw a
> reference to an example of "replacing a roof", which is pretty
> similar. I'll concede that this might not seem as sexy as some big
> expansion or another neighborhood-wide project, but I don't think we
> need to decide for them that our need is not worthy of their
> investment. Our grassroots-ness is going to count for something.
I think we could probably get it funded, through MMT or another
foundation, but I'd rather not ask for money because this is something
PTP should and can do on its own, and we should save our chances with
foundations for bigger things we can't do on our own.
Conor Todd
I moved up here to Portland at the end of July, and I've noticed that if there's anything people like up here, it's branding. So to answer your question, Michael, how about a bunch of stickers? Or a low-budget campaign that twists the ubiquitous Comcast advertising? You could leave flyers in the places where people use the service.
- Conor
"(Information) consumes the attention of its recipients, hence a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention."
-- Herbert Simon
Russell Senior
Conor> Hi. I'm Conor, and I haven't made a peep since joining this
Conor> list a few weeks ago.
Conor> I moved up here to Portland at the end of July, and I've
Conor> noticed that if there's anything people like up here, it's
Conor> branding. So to answer your question, Michael, how about a
Conor> bunch of stickers?
Heh. Oh, we've got stickers. The last of the roll (maybe 100 of
them) is in my laptop bag. We could make more of an effort to
distribute them. But right not they are available any time on request
and/or at meetings!
Conor> Or a low-budget campaign that twists the ubiquitous Comcast
Conor> advertising? You could leave flyers in the places where people
Conor> use the service.
That's an interesting idea. Another idea I've had recently is a kind
of "Friends of Personal Telco" auxilliary. People maybe with more
money than time-for-involvement that could be tapped for financial
help with this kind of infrastructure improvement. We are coming to
the end of a tax year, this would be an auspicious time to ask for
that kind of financial help and to take better advantage of the
501(c)(3) non-profit tax status that we've spent effort over the years
on attaining.
Michael Rasmussen
> We are coming to
> the end of a tax year, this would be an auspicious time to ask for
> that kind of financial help and to take better advantage of the
> 501(c)(3) non-profit tax status that we've spent effort over the years
> on attaining.
You and every other 501(c)(3) out there.
Does PTP know how to process employer matching funds?
Can one donate to PTP with Pay Pal?
--
Michael Rasmussen, Portland Oregon
Be appropriate && Follow your curiosity
http://www.jamhome.us/
The fortune cookie says:
Don't read any sky-writing for the next two weeks.
Michael Weinberg
>
> On Tuesday 25 November 2008 01:10:38 am Russell Senior wrote:
>> We are coming to
>> the end of a tax year, this would be an auspicious time to ask for
>> that kind of financial help and to take better advantage of the
>> 501(c)(3) non-profit tax status that we've spent effort over the years
>> on attaining.
>
> You and every other 501(c)(3) out there.
> Does PTP know how to process employer matching funds?
> Can one donate to PTP with Pay Pal?
Payroll no. paypal YES! (fu...@personaltelco.net)
Handing a check to Russell or I is also appropriate.
Russell Senior
Russell> We are coming to the end of a tax year, this would be an
Russell> auspicious time to ask for that kind of financial help and to
Russell> take better advantage of the 501(c)(3) non-profit tax status
Russell> that we've spent effort over the years on attaining.
MikeRaz> You and every other 501(c)(3) out there. Does PTP know how
MikeRaz> to process employer matching funds? Can one donate to PTP
MikeRaz> with Pay Pal?
LuckyMike> Payroll no. paypal YES! (fu...@personaltelco.net)
LuckyMike> Handing a check to Russell or I is also appropriate.
I'm not sure how employer matching funds works either. We have
received contributions via the United Way in the past from an Intel
employee. I imagine that if you ask your employer, they can explain
the process. I am not sure how involved the recipient is in that, but
if you discover we need to be, we're happy to learn! ;-)
--
Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.''
sen...@aracnet.com
Caleb Phillips
Russell Senior wrote:
>>>>>> "Don" == Don Park <do...@personaltelco.net> writes:
>
> Don> PTP has a sizable stash of WGTs. i still use a PTP node every day
> Don> (Urban Grind NW), and I am convinced the splash pages cause more
> Don> trouble than they're worth. the essid of www.personaltelco.net is
> Don> a great way to get branding/awareness. noone reads the EULA and
> Don> its legal standing is dubious. I suggest nucabs be replaced with
> Don> WGTs with no captive portal. Remote debugging and usage tracking
> Don> can be done with ssh and iptables. It costs $0 to implement.
>
> I am not completely against using WGTs, though: a) they aren't
> replacable; and b) they'd be kind of nice to use in new residential
> node deployments, like Pete Forsyth's and PixelFace.
Why not a hybrid solution? Go to the Lucky Lab (for instance) and tell
them that we need to replace a piece of hardware in their setup. Tell
them they have two options:
a) WGT. Free to them, but no splash page and therefore no branding, etc.
b) Alix thingie. 30 bucks to them (or some nominal percentage of PTP's
costs to bring down that $5000 number) but then they can have splashy
goodness.
Maybe this way we'd end up using 10 WGTs and 20 Alix things, and each of
the 20 would be subsidized slightly. The end result making the whole
shebang more tractable financially.
On the member-donation front, I've got 20 bucks right now to support the
project provided I get to throw a replaced NuCab off a bridge or
something next time I'm in town.
Keep up the good work,
--
Caleb
Tyler Booth
> the
> project provided I get to throw a replaced NuCab off a bridge or
> something next time I'm in town.
Surely you can think of a more "environmentally friendly" mode of
destruction ;)
Tom Higgins
-its not a new idea, but the thought that each node would somehow
attract a loyal core of one or two trainable hands on problem solvers
might be the way to go to get those nodes looked after/worked
on/coordinated with the bigger picture ptp projects. Maybe advert it
as a THE PTP WANTS YOU (image of uncle ptp pointing out at viewer
(Russell in a big hat maybe?)) Sense of ownership, investing of time
and effort into a place you frequent etc etc etc.
-NUCabs came at a time when other alternatives cost way more than the
boxes we had donated to us or simply was not in our reach. The
physical act of moving them around town, setting them up, and
installing them was a great boost to the social aspects of the group
at that time. There were install gatherings, white board festooned
meetings on white list ideas and of course beer. Are they the right
tool for the times of now? In a scene were lifetimes of usefulness
are ranged in the months it is amazing these things lasted for the
years they did. Replacement is a matter of how not if. The WGTs are an
ok solution if you prep them right and have the RussellFu on tap, but
from all I have seen of the newer solutions (and this has not been
much mind you) if the plan is to do more than brand an ssid and maybe
a craptive portal page the WGTs might well become next years NUCabs. I
have three of them that I have been doinking with over the last couple
of years and am happy with them(thanks for the external n connector
Jason), but all I am doing is tossing a signal around , at most, a
block of space/time. I have not played with the Alix boards but
Russell's glow of them is a good sign of their worth. I think it all
comes down to what the scope of the PTPs use of the nodes , individual
and or collectively, are want to be in the next few years. Lock that
down and your requirements list get much clearer.
-Fundraising ...has never been a strong suit of mine. I think the best
fund-raising happens when you have a locked down plan of action to
sell to people. Having the splash page is a great first line for
getting folks to not only understand that the service they are using
has people and a narrative behind it but that they can help by
funding those people to keep the project going. We have had some good
donations of gear from people inside companies that have resources to
donate, maybe one way would be finding people inside orgs that have
the gear we need to meet that requirements list and making them
converts.
Ok, that was logner than I had intended..
-tomhiggins
Tom Higgins
>
> Surely you can think of a more "environmentally friendly" mode of
> destruction ;)
>
They make lovely "crafty" desks..stack a a few up in two columns and
plonk some wood on top. The uses in found art projects is endless.
I will say though that taking one of them and bashing it against
concrete is...well it has certain therapeutic benefits.
-tomhiggins
Keith Lofstrom
> > On the member-donation front, I've got 20 bucks right now to support
> > the
> > project provided I get to throw a replaced NuCab off a bridge or
> > something next time I'm in town.
>
> Surely you can think of a more "environmentally friendly" mode of
> destruction ;)
My friend Bob Pease in building D at National Semiconductor had
the habit of dropping computers off the roof (40 feet) when
they lied to him. It's more fun to splash plastic and metal
in a parking lot than to splash water, anyway, and the cleanup
does not require scuba gear. The partial disassembly into
recyclable materials may or may not meet Free Geek standards.
There used to be pictures online - no doubt some lawyer at N.S.
got them removed.
Keith
--
Keith Lofstrom kei...@keithl.com Voice (503)-520-1993
KLIC --- Keith Lofstrom Integrated Circuits --- "Your Ideas in Silicon"
Design Contracting in Bipolar and CMOS - Analog, Digital, and Scan ICs
Michael Weinberg
>
> Several thoughts,..
>
> -its not a new idea, but the thought that each node would somehow
> attract a loyal core of one or two trainable hands on problem solvers
> might be the way to go to get those nodes looked after/worked
> on/coordinated with the bigger picture ptp projects. Maybe advert it
> as a THE PTP WANTS YOU (image of uncle ptp pointing out at viewer
> (Russell in a big hat maybe?)) Sense of ownership, investing of time
> and effort into a place you frequent etc etc etc.
I think this case can be made, and should be made. My only concern is
how we make it politely. There are countless freelancers and other
forms of non-office workers who use PTP nodes regularly to bring in a
paycheck. Some of them are probably scraping by, others are making
enough for cool cars, Macbook Airs and Canon 5Ds. We should tap them
(again, politely) to support the nodes that support them. If we can
cite some concrete betterment as part of the plea, that's even better.
Bottom line, if you're charging $50 or more an hour for work you do at
PTP nodes, in addition to your coffee shop purchases, it would be
awesome if you tossed a little cash towards PTP before the end of the
year. Even more awesome would be taking some of your non-billable
time, and helping PTP in a hands-on way.
Aaron Baer
> > project provided I get to throw a replaced NuCab off a bridge or
> > something next time I'm in town.
>
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 04:46:18PM -0800, Tyler Booth wrote:
> Surely you can think of a more "environmentally friendly" mode of
> destruction ;)
My friend Bob Pease in building D at National Semiconductor had
the habit of dropping computers off the roof (40 feet) when
they lied to him.
I have very fond memories of an arsenal of 10 different types of bullet firing weapons, some remote wooded area, and a few "door stop" Macs about 9 or 10 years ago.. firing a 50 caliber hand gun at one of those really was a blast.
A-
---
Aaron Baer
aa...@slyness.org
http://www.slyness.org/
Caleb Phillips
"a blast". Har har. /me slaps knee.
I was going to suggest the throw-it-off-a-building route, but didn't
want to give Russell flashbacks of the Mississippi Ballroom epic.
--
Caleb
Tom Higgins
Who has deer slugs?
-tomhiggins
t...@tommytek.com
-----Original Message-----
From: "Tom Higgins" <tomhi...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 16:44:27
To: <ptp-g...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [ptp-general] Re: Throwing computers