Working with CP and vertical lines?

[Axel L.]

Hi,
as you see here there are a lot of cracks in vertical lines:
https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/

Could i please have a link to a manual that explains how to add CPs specially for these cases?
(I read that there is a feature for vertical and horizontal lines but i never tried that before but it seem that i need it now)

kind regards
axel

[PTGui Support]

Are you sure your panohead is set up correctly? This looks like parallax
problems to me.

Parallax can't be fixed, you would need to re-shoot the panorama.

If it's not parallax, then regular control points should work here as
well, it looks there's plenty opportunity to place them.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

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[John Houghton]

Axel,  As Joost says, the problem is most likely to be parallax.  You need to set up the head to eliminate vertical as well as horizontal parallax.  It's hard to be specific without having the images to hand.  Maybe you could supply a set of half size jpegs (single exposure set) via a download link for investigation.  Use wetransfer.com or dropbox etc

John

[Axel L.]

I hope its not Parallax. I fiddled around a lot to set up my Nodaladapter and this is the best i could get.
I try to fix it with CPs. If i struggle to much i provide a bunch of halfsized JPGs.

thanks
axel

[Axel L.]

So...after i added a lot of CPs i found that there might be not enough vertical overlapping  (which i do not understand since it was the same setting like always).
I was able to improve the result but still there are glitches.

Would you mind to look into it and tell me if it is paralax?
https://www.axellauer.de/downloads/dzb.zip
In this case i need to reshoot.

thank you all
axel

[John Houghton]

Axel, There is a big parallax problem at the nadir caused by the entrance pupil of the lens not being located on the vertical axis of rotation as the head is panned round for the lower row.  See the animated gif image at this link: https://we.tl/t-1NUea3In4Y , which shows the parallax shift of the top of the tripod relative to the floor between two of the lower row images.  It may be that the cross just visible in the slot of the lower rail marks the rotation axis position, which should remain stationary.

I suggest you take two shots with the camera pointing down, panning the head around through 180 degrees between them.    Align the images with control points only on the floor in the background and check for parallax shift of the rotation point.  If you output a layered PSD file and examine in Photoshop with the top layer at 50% opacity, you should see something like this, where you want to the centre point of the head reasonably well aligned in the two images:

Adjust the lower rail setting as necessary (half the visible displacement as measured via the scale on the rail).  I haven't made an attempt to see if I can get a decent stitch as it is now late here.  I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

John

[John Houghton]

Axel, I have done my best with the images provided (there's one missing, BTW), but there are still some glitches that would need to be repaired in post.  Project file attached. I've used straight line points to align vertical edges for the tiny overlaps between top and bottom rows.  That has helped quite a bit. 

Straight line points are created by first selecting control point type "New Line".  Subsequent points created will then be of type "Line 1".  Then click on points along a line feature that should be straight, in images where that feature appears.  Assign points in the same manner as vertical line control points - i.e. not on actual matching features, just somewhere along the line.  Select "New Line" again when you move to another straight line feature to create points of type "Line 2".   And so on.  NB.  On the advanced screen of the Optimizer tab, you must select the option to include hor/vert points in the first pass of the optimizer. 

John 

[Axel L.]

Hi John,
for now: THANK YOU VERY MUCH

I will need a while to check and follow your advices.
I`ll come back when i am done with it.

kind regards
axel

[Axel L.]

Hello John,
sorry for the very late reply - to much hazzle the last months.

I started with the test you recommended and this is the result.

1: Before i matched the images based on some orientation pints on the floor:
https://www.axellauer.de/temp/without-orientation.jpg
2: After i matched the images based on some orientation pints on the floor:
https://www.axellauer.de/temp/orientation.jpg

Quite a big shift.

There is a small shift which can be fixed by moving the plate.
But it seems as if there is a much bigger right/left shift (based on the actual image orientation) and i have no clue how to fix this.
Even the coins on the floor which i used for match the two layers i cant really bring together.
Is it possible that there is something wrong with the tripod or the adapter??

kind regards

[John Houghton]

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 2:13:04 PM UTC Axel L. wrote:

But it seems as if there is a much bigger right/left shift (based on the actual image orientation) and i have no clue how to fix this.
Even the coins on the floor which i used for match the two layers i cant really bring together.
Is it possible that there is something wrong with the tripod or the adapter??

Axel,  Yes, it's the second image that's wanted.   The images don't seem to align too well on the floor.  Did you apply a good set of lens parameters in PTGui or spread the control points widely over the floor?  (When roughly aligned, you should be able to create more automatically with the Generate Control points here function).  But the lateral shift may not be easy to eliminate, if at all.  On some heads you can twist the camera slightly on its mounting screw to the rail, or shift it up/down a little to get the lens axis onto the rotation axis, but neither may be possible for you.

John

[Orpheo Winter]

Hi John!

I'm having a similar problem as Axel, might be parallax, might be something else. I wanted to try working with Line CPs to solve the problem, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly how it works.

I'm having glitches in my Panorama between upper and lower row, that are overlapping little less than 20%. If I wish to use Line CPs, am I using them in the same photo, or in the two pictures, that I want to stitch together?

Attached

1) screenshot of the two photos I cannot get stitched properly

2) screenshot of what happened after I added 3 regular CPs in the overlapping areas, optimized, and tried to mask out other photos, I thought could be causing the glitch.

Best/Orpheo

PS.: I used a 15mm Lens by Laowa (https://www.laowa.de/15mm-f2-0/), that does not provide any EXIF Data  to PTGui. When I typed in 15mm manually, it automatiocally jumped to "15,5 rectilinear". Is that correct?

John Houghton schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 11:15:32 UTC+2:

[John Houghton]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 3:32:02 PM UTC orpheo...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm having glitches in my Panorama between upper and lower row, that are overlapping little less than 20%. If I wish to use Line CPs, am I using them in the same photo, or in the two pictures, that I want to stitch together?

You can assign a straight line control point pair within the same image or across two different images.  The optimizer will attempt to get all of the points of the same type into the same straight line (as it appears in the output panorama image).  

PS.: I used a 15mm Lens by Laowa (https://www.laowa.de/15mm-f2-0/), that does not provide any EXIF Data  to PTGui. When I typed in 15mm manually, it automatiocally jumped to "15,5 rectilinear". Is that correct?

I assume it didn't automatically change to 15.5 without you doing something (e.g. run Align Images or the Optimizer).  It doesn't really matter whether the value entered is 15 or 15.5 .  This is just a starting point for the Optimizer.  The final optimized value will normally be the same.  If you have established an accurate value in a careful calibration exercise, you can enter this value and exclude it from the optimization process so that it will not be changed.

John

 

[PTGui Support]

Hi Orpheo,

I see no reason to use line CPs here. Regular control points would do
fine, there's enough detail in the images. Line CPs are useful only if
there's only a linear feature visible and you cannot exactly pinpoint
the same spot in two images.

It looks like you simply have no control points in the overlap area.
Could that be the problem?

Your lens is indeed a 15.5 mm rectilinear lens, this is correct.

Unless you need super high resolution, stitching will be much easier if
you use a wider fisheye lens, say, 12mm. You'll need fewer images.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 17/01/2023 16:30, Orpheo Winter wrote:
> Hi John!
>
> I'm having a similar problem as Axel, might be parallax, might be
> something else. I wanted to try working with Line CPs to solve the
> problem, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly how it works.
>
> I'm having glitches in my Panorama between upper and lower row, that are
> overlapping little less than 20%. If I wish to use Line CPs, am I using
> them in the same photo, or in the two pictures, that I want to stitch
> together?
>
> Attached
> 1) screenshot of the two photos I cannot get stitched properly
> 2) screenshot of what happened after I added 3 regular CPs in the
> overlapping areas, optimized, and tried to mask out other photos, I
> thought could be causing the glitch.
>
> Best/Orpheo
>
>
> PS.: I used a 15mm Lens by Laowa (https://www.laowa.de/15mm-f2-0/), that
> does not provide any EXIF Data  to PTGui. When I typed in 15mm manually,
> it automatiocally jumped to "15,5 rectilinear". Is that correct?
>
>

> Bildschirmfoto 2023-01-17 um 16.10.39.pngBildschirmfoto 2023-01-17 um

> 16.11.59.png
> John Houghton schrieb am Samstag, 29. Oktober 2022 um 11:15:32 UTC+2:
>
> Axel, I have done my best with the images provided (there's one
> missing, BTW), but there are still some glitches that would need to
> be repaired in post.  Project file attached. I've used straight line
> points to align vertical edges for the tiny overlaps between top and
> bottom rows.  That has helped quite a bit.
>
> Straight line points are created by first selecting control point
> type "New Line".  Subsequent points created will then be of type
> "Line 1".  Then click on points along a line feature that should be
> straight, in images where that feature appears.  Assign points in
> the same manner as vertical line control points - i.e. not on actual
> matching features, just somewhere along the line.  Select "New Line"
> again when you move to another straight line feature to create
> points of type "Line 2".   And so on.  NB.  On the advanced screen

> of the Optimizer tab, you *must* select the option to include

> hor/vert points in the first pass of the optimizer.
>
> John
>
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 10:09:41 PM UTC+1 John Houghton wrote:
>
> Axel, There is a big parallax problem at the nadir caused by the
> entrance pupil of the lens not being located on the vertical
> axis of rotation as the head is panned round for the lower row.
> See the animated gif image at this link:

> https://we.tl/t-1NUea3In4Y <https://we.tl/t-1NUea3In4Y> , which

> shows the parallax shift of the top of the tripod relative to
> the floor between two of the lower row images.  It may be that
> the cross just visible in the slot of the lower rail marks the
> rotation axis position, which should remain stationary.
>
> I suggest you take two shots with the camera pointing down,
> panning the head around through 180 degrees between them.
> Align the images with control points only on the floor in the
> background and check for parallax shift of the rotation point.
> If you output a layered PSD file and examine in Photoshop with
> the top layer at 50% opacity, you should see something like
> this, where you want to the centre point of the head reasonably
> well aligned in the two images:
>

> <http://wetransfer.com> or dropbox etc

>
> John
>
> On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 1:00:03 PM UTC+1 Axel
> L. wrote:
>
> Hi,
> as you see here there are a lot of cracks in
> vertical lines:

> https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/ <https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/>

>
> Could i please have a link to a manual that
> explains how to add CPs specially for these cases?
> (I read that there is a feature for vertical and
> horizontal lines but i never tried that before
> but it seem that i need it now)
>
> kind regards
> axel
>

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[Orpheo Winter]

Hi! Thanks for the quick reply. 

Okay, I’ll first try adding more normal CPs manually along the seam between the upper and lower row of photos.

As a next step, would it be a good method to delete the worst CPs, and then click „Conrolpoints>Generate Controlpoints“? 

Best/Orpheo

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12435 Berlin

orpheowinter.de

[Orpheo Winter]

correction:  I meant, I will manually add CPs in the overlapping area in question, meaning "the seam"

[John Houghton]

Orpheo,  Just using the screenshot images, it seems that you have significant vertical parallax, but the horizontal parallax is very small.

John

[Orpheo Winter]

Oh! I cant redo the shoot.

Is there a recommended method to deal with this? A workaround?

Also I noticed that in this conversation somewhere it says, that some things can only be fixed in post. What does that mean? Export the panorama into photoshop, and have the glitches removed there?

Thanks//Orpheo

[John Houghton]

Orpheo, Generally, I think the best approach is to assign control points only on the more distant parts of the scene and accept that there are going to be alignment problems with the near objects  These may be hidden by the Find Optimum Seams blending, but can otherwise be dealt with in post by appropriate Photoshop edits.  Sometimes, using viewpoint correction can help, but that can easily introduce unwanted distortions.

John

[Axel L.]

Hi John,
oh sorry - i didnt think to use PTG vor doing that test - so i used Photoshop.
I will do it again.

But for now i can say even by looking on the monitor on my camera that the camera is not really pointing straight down on the mark of my Rollei nodaladapter when i use their premade  "snap in catches".
I need to slightly go over the first snap to get the mark into the middle of the screen.
That puzzles me

axel

[Orpheo Winter]

Thanks for the advice! Will certainly try the Optimum Seam blending. 

I'm not sure how to repair the bit of parallax that can not be removed by PTGui though. How does editing the panorama in photoshop work? Am I supposed to export the panorama as psd, like so: https://ptgui.com/examples/postprocessing/1.html ?

Cheers/Orpheo

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[PTGui Support]

Hi Orpheo,

That's an old tutorial, this manual process is made obsolete by optimum
seam placement. Optimum seam placement does the same thing, but
automatically.

You might be able to reduce the stitching errors some more by enabling
Viewpoint correction for all images except one, similar to 5.6:
https://ptgui.com/support.html#5_6
although this may cause new problems (vertical features may become slanted).

As the last resort you can try retouching the panorama in Photoshop.
Open the finished panorama in Photoshop, use the patch tool and
overpaint the broken lines with other parts from the panorama.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 22/01/2023 20:33, Orpheo Winter wrote:
> Thanks for the advice! Will certainly try the Optimum Seam blending.
>
> I'm not sure how to repair the bit of parallax that can not be removed
> by PTGui though. How does editing the panorama in photoshop work? Am I
> supposed to export the panorama as psd, like so:
> https://ptgui.com/examples/postprocessing/1.html
> <https://ptgui.com/examples/postprocessing/1.html> ?
>
> Cheers/Orpheo
>
>
>> Am 18.01.2023 um 12:55 schrieb John Houghton <houghto...@gmail.com

>> <mailto:houghto...@gmail.com>>:

>>
>> Orpheo, Generally, I think the best approach is to assign control
>> points only on the more distant parts of the scene and accept that
>> there are going to be alignment problems with the near objects  These
>> may be hidden by the Find Optimum Seams blending, but can otherwise be
>> dealt with in post by appropriate Photoshop edits.  Sometimes, using
>> viewpoint correction can help, but that can easily introduce unwanted
>> distortions.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023 at 11:31:15 AM UTC orpheo...@gmail.com

>> <http://gmail.com/>wrote:

>>> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com/>

>>>
>>> On 17/01/2023 16:30, Orpheo Winter wrote:
>>>> Hi John!
>>>> I'm having a similar problem as Axel, might be parallax,
>>>> might be something else. I wanted to try working with
>>>> Line CPs to solve the problem, but I'm not sure if I
>>>> understand correctly how it works.
>>>> I'm having glitches in my Panorama between upper and
>>>> lower row, that are overlapping little less than 20%. If
>>>> I wish to use Line CPs, am I using them in the same
>>>> photo, or in the two pictures, that I want to stitch
>>>> together?
>>>> Attached
>>>> 1) screenshot of the two photos I cannot get stitched
>>>> properly
>>>> 2) screenshot of what happened after I added 3 regular
>>>> CPs in the overlapping areas, optimized, and tried to
>>>> mask out other photos, I thought could be causing the
>>>> glitch.
>>>> Best/Orpheo
>>>> PS.: I used a 15mm Lens by Laowa
>>>> (https://www.laowa.de/15mm-f2-0/

>>>> <https://www.laowa.de/15mm-f2-0/>), that does not

>>>> <https://we.tl/t-1NUea3In4Y><https://we.tl/t-1NUea3In4Y

>>>> <http://wetransfer.com/>
>>>>                    <http://wetransfer.com
>>>> <http://wetransfer.com/>> or dropbox etc

>>>>                    John
>>>>                    On Friday, October 28, 2022 at
>>>> 1:00:03 PM UTC+1 Axel
>>>>                    L. wrote:
>>>>                        Hi,
>>>>                        as you see here there are a lot
>>>> of cracks in
>>>>                        vertical lines:
>>>> https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/

>>>> <https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/><https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/ <https://axellauer.de/panorama-rundgang/DZB-Atrium/>>

>>>>                        Could i please have a link to a
>>>> manual that
>>>>                        explains how to add CPs specially
>>>> for these cases?
>>>>                        (I read that there is a feature
>>>> for vertical and
>>>>                        horizontal lines but i never
>>>> tried that before
>>>>                        but it seem that i need it now)
>>>>                        kind regards
>>>>                        axel
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>>>> the Google Groups "PTGui Support" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>> from it, send an email

>>>> toptgui+un...@googlegroups.com<mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.

>>>> To view this discussion on the web

>>>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/b07a846a-c29b-4183-aa41-3836ac59344an%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/b07a846a-c29b-4183-aa41-3836ac59344an%40googlegroups.com><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/b07a846a-c29b-4183-aa41-3836ac59344an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/b07a846a-c29b-4183-aa41-3836ac59344an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>>>
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>>
>>
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[John Houghton]

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 7:34:04 PM UTC orpheo...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm not sure how to repair the bit of parallax that can not be removed by PTGui though. How does editing the panorama in photoshop work? 

Orpheo,  Panorama editing is often best performed on rectilinear views extracted from the equirectangular image in a variety of ways.  Simplest is to generate 6 cube faces from the tools menu.  Then load in the edited cube faces and then go direct to Create Panorama.  Or you can extract an arbitrary view using PTGui (see tutorial at http://www.johnhpanos.com/patch_view.htm ).  For editing glitches in line features, see tutorial at http://www.johnhpanos.com/glitch_correction.html .

John

[Orpheo Winter]

Thanks!

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