Insta360 One X, X2, X3 and probably X4 distortion correction problem

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

In all Insta360 X versions there  seems to be a problem with image distortion in all PTGui versions (11, 12, 13 Beta). One image contains two circular fisheye images. Control images and stitching is working flawless. 

Just: When the camera ist slanted when taking the image yout get to know that the distortion correction within the circles is not right.

Compared to a result of the Insta360 Studio app as reference

A workaround I found is to apply "Pinch" in PSD on both cicles at setting -30. Gives better results, but far from perfect.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance

[Erik Krause]

Am 15.07.2024 um 08:47 schrieb Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de):

> In all Insta360 X versions there seems to be a problem with image
> distortion in all PTGui versions (11, 12, 13 Beta). One image contains two
> circular fisheye images. Control images and stitching is working flawless.
> Just: When the camera ist slanted when taking the image yout get to know
> that the distortion correction within the circles is not right.

You must level the panorama. In your case go to Control Points tab,
select the same image in both panes, then set a pair of vertical line
control points on one or two vertical features, like the edges of the
building or the window frames. Place one point as high as possible, the
other one as low as possible. If available, repeat with the other image,
then press F5 to re-optimize.

Note that parallax is inevitable with multi lens one-shot systems. To
avoid problems, you can shoot such, that the nearby object is completely
covered by one of the lenses.

--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi Erik,

thanks a lot for the answer. 

The problem is not to straighten a panorama, I´ve done this with my 20.000 panoramas quite often (I just tried it for fun with 2 vertical lines in the example above, of course it won't straighten).

Here is an example with a upright camera, all lines are vertical, everything seems to be correct so far. 
Again a Insta360 Studio stitch as reference. You can see the extreme difference in size in the middle of the two lenses - the PTGui fisheye distortion correction is simply not correct. 

Another comparison where the fisheye correction for PTGui has been improved with Pinch -  my current workaroud.

Perhaps there is a way to change the kind of fisheye distortion correction somehow in PTGui. I just did not figure it out.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Sorry, second gif was the some. Here is the pinch version:

[John Houghton]

On Monday, July 15, 2024 at 10:49:19 AM UTC+1 Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de) wrote:

Perhaps there is a way to change the kind of fisheye distortion correction somehow in PTGui. I just did not figure it out.

Manuel, One way to correct the distortion is to align the camera images to the Studio App equirectangular image:

1. Start a new project and add your camera image.

2. Add the Studio App equirectangular reference image.

3. Create  control points between the Studio App image and the two image circles of the camera image.

4. In the advanced page of the Optimizer, uncheck all parameters for the Studio App image.

5. In the Global parameters, additionally check the a,b,c lens distortion correction parameters,

6. Run the Optimizer.

You can then delete the Studio App reference image and save the project for use as a template for stitching future images.

Alternatively, you can perform a calibration exercise by taking two shots, rotating the camera round through 90 degrees, and in PTGui align all 4 image circles as you would for a single lens camera taking 4 shots around, optimizing lens parameters in the usual way.   Then delete one pair of images and save as a template.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Thanks - great ideas. Tried it.

I added the Insta Studio equi tp the project. It worked somehow, but the control point qualitiy ist very bad. The necessary changes appear to be too great. Advanced settings as attached, something wrong?

The same happens when I tried your second suggestion. Enought control points on all 4 images (2x 0° and 2sx 90°) , a b c switched on, but very bad cp quality, unusable result.

So still the pinch way gives the best results. In my oppinion PTGui does NOT support Insta360 images!

[PTGui Support]

Hi Manual,

The built in lens profile in PTGui for the insta360 cameras was created
from a single 2 fisheye shot. There's just a tiny cylinder where the two
fisheye images overlap. Seamlessly aligning the overlap area does not
unambiguously determine the lens mapping inside the image.

If a X2/X3/X4 owner would be willing to shoot some test images, I would
be happy to improve the lens profile in PTGui.

I would need two shots taken from the same viewpoint, with the camera
rotated 90 degrees inbetween. This way there's 100% overlap coverage for
each image. Preferable with no objects close to the camera, to avoid
parallax.

Automatic leveling is also not implemented currently for the X3 and X4,
I could also use some test images with the camera in various
orientations (normal, clockwise, counterclockwise, pointing upwards).

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

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[PTGui Support]

Manuel! Sorry!

On 15-07-2024 13:35, 'PTGui Support' via PTGui Support wrote:
> Hi Manual,

[John Houghton]

Manuel, You need to specify individual lens shift parameters on the Lens Settings tab and optimize those. (I was assuming that would have happened when the image files were input).  That should make some difference.  But if you cannot get a decent result, please make available for download your images used for the 2nd method and I'll take a look.

John

[m m]

Ho Joost,

great, thanks.

As I´m about to get a X3 this week, I will send you X3 sample images later this week. (X4 is unfortunately a step backwards as far as photos are concerned)

I already tried to generate a template with 90° turned camera, but the neccesary changes a b c are to big.
After a long time with my Pinch PSD droplet I just wanted to figure out if there is a better solution.

The Insta360 Lightroom-PTGUI workflow gives much better results since Lightroom can KI denoise Insta360 camera DNGs (but not stiched DNGs).

Viele Grüße

Malum
-----------------------------------------
Manuel Dahmann
Lehrter Str. 55
10557 Berlin
Tel: 030 / 394 37 61
ma...@malum.de
www.kubische-panoramen.de
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[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi John,

here are the two images, 0 and 90 degrees. If you manage to get a result, would be great if you shared the project file.

https://malum.de/downloads/insta-calibration-0-90.zip

[John Houghton]

Manuel,  I have attached my template project file for stitching the raw images.  See how that works for you.

John 

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Wow - this is phantastic. Seems to work wonderfully. Thank you so much John. Beyond my skills.

Under optimize tab a b c must be disabled, otherwise the fisheye settings are scrambled again after cp generation and optimization..

I´m glad it also compatible with PTGui 11. In PTGui 13 beta the colors of a Lightroom sRGB JPG are completely oversatuated, dont know why. 

[John Houghton]

Manuel, When using a template prepared for a particular camera with fixed lenses, you should not need to create control points and optimize.  In theory at least, you should be able to apply the template and go straight to Create Panorama.  However, there are always going to be parallax issues for many scenes.  If you do create control points, try to confine them to the more distant features when possible and yes, don't include the lens parameters in the optimization.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

With different distances (I already had 10cm to 100m to the main object with the One X) there is always an need for control points from my experience.  Or you need a lot of different templates for different distances.

I`m about to change to a Insta360 X3 camera, get it this week. I tried to apply your template to a X3 demo DNG from the internet - did not work very  good. 

Would you mind If we repeat the action for the X3 camera in a few days?

Thanks in adcance.

[John Houghton]

Manuel, Yes - by all means supply some X3 images.

John

[PTGui Support]

Hi Manuel,

Those files are from the insta360 one X, right?

Could you show the problem with the over saturated colors? If there's a
problem then I would like to fix it.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> www.kubische-panoramen.de <http://www.kubische-panoramen.de>

> -----------------------------------------
>
>
> > Am 15.07.2024 um 13:35 schrieb 'PTGui Support' via PTGui
> Support <pt...@googlegroups.com>:
> >
> > Hi Manual,
> >
> > The built in lens profile in PTGui for the insta360
> cameras was created from a single 2 fisheye shot. There's
> just a tiny cylinder where the two fisheye images overlap.
> Seamlessly aligning the overlap area does not unambiguously
> determine the lens mapping inside the image.
> >
> > If a X2/X3/X4 owner would be willing to shoot some test
> images, I would be happy to improve the lens profile in PTGui.
> >
> > I would need two shots taken from the same viewpoint,
> with the camera rotated 90 degrees inbetween. This way
> there's 100% overlap coverage for each image. Preferable
> with no objects close to the camera, to avoid parallax.
> >
> > Automatic leveling is also not implemented currently for
> the X3 and X4, I could also use some test images with the
> camera in various orientations (normal, clockwise,
> counterclockwise, pointing upwards).
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Joost Nieuwenhuijse

> > www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/692337ec-5267-4ae5-800c-45ad3436c045n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/692337ec-5267-4ae5-800c-45ad3436c045n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/692337ec-5267-4ae5-800c-45ad3436c045n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/692337ec-5267-4ae5-800c-45ad3436c045n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Of course.

I opened the project file from John Insta raw template V13.pts posted above in PTGui 13.

Then I used the "Replace" function under "Source images" to import a .jpg file 2x.

I suppose, as the original images were .dng files, the new .jpg images are not properly imported or image settings left dng were not initialized.

Direct import of the .jpg in a new project is not a problem.

Screenshot:

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Attach a file is not possible in the moment "Nachricht zu lang". 

Here is the jpg from Lightroom without neon gras.

 

[PTGui Support]

On 16-07-2024 13:52, Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de) wrote:
> I suppose, as the original images were .dng files, the new .jpg images
> are not properly imported or image settings left dng were not initialized.

Exactly.

DNG and raw files contain linear data, to which a tone curve must be
applied before viewing.

Jpeg files already have such a curve applied by the raw converter.

I think if you clear the curve in the 'Post Processing' side bar, things
should look good. But I wouldn't recommend replacing raw files with jpeg
files in PTGui, there can be other problems such as a slightly different
image size.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

It seems there is no possibility to clear the curve in the sidebar. 

Raw preprocess: "This image is not a RAW file".

Image parameter: "Camera curve Linear" is not edible

Did not find another setting.

So replace function in PTGui 13 does not work. i use replace very (!) often.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Found it after loading the original RAW files, in the panorama editor, Thanks.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi John,

my X3 has arrived. Here are the sample shots:

https://malum.de/downloads/insta360-x3-6-12MP-0-90deg.zip

The lens geometry seems to be different using 6MP size or 12MP size, so there are 4 files included, 6 and 12 megapixels @ 0° and 90°

Would be great if you could build appropriate templates again. There should probably be two, one for 6 and one for 12 megapixels.

Thanks so much in advance.

[John Houghton]

Manuel, Try these two attached templates.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi John,

thanks, great. 

Just: the base image in both templates is the 6MP dng. So something seems to be wrong.

Both template seem to work well with the 6MP dng, none with the 12 MP dng

Cant figure out what is happening. Could you check another time?

Thanks in advance.

[John Houghton]

Manuel,  Sorry about that.  I don't know how it happened, but here is the correct 12MP file (I hope)

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Thanks. 

Here just to compare is the absolutely perfect 12MP result out of the Insta360 Studio desktop app

https://malum.de/downloads/x3-12MP-0-Deg-IMG_20240720_163626_00_001-equi.dng.zip

Perfect vertical lines, Can PTGui do it exactly like this? 

Because I really want to use the Lightroom AI denoising, using the Insta360 app is not an option.

But they know their lenses best.

[John Houghton]

Manuel, I prepared a further template by aligning one of the 12MP  images with the "Perfect" equirectangular image.  The result is good.  The template can never guarantee that the verticals will be vertical, as this depends on how well the camera is levelled.  But it's easy to level the panorama with vertical line control points.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Lens distortion compensation looks perfect now - thanks a lot.

Before ome upper parts of the building where not vertical - I couldn't manage it with vertical lines.

Now the most critical part (red circle) is really straight.

[John Houghton]

Manuel,  When levelling with vertical line control points doesn't work, it's usually because you have not created the points correctly.  Try this:

1. Load in a 360x180 equirectangular image and  display that same image in each control point window, and then:

2. Control point type should automatically be set as "Vertical line" by default when displaying the same image in the two windows.

3. Click near one end of a vertical feature in one window and then click near the other end of the same feature in the other window.  That creates one control point.  The vertical line feature can be the line of right hand sides of a vertical column of windows, say, not just the side of one window alone.

4. After a few vertical line features across the panorama have been identified in this way, display the Edit menu on the Panorama Editor window and click Level Panorama.   That's all there is to it.  Go on to generate the output image.

One other point - the paving on the ground is stitched perfectly by the Insta360 Studio desktop app (maybe using optical flow techniques?).  PTGui cannot match this because of parallax issues close to the camera.  There are techniques for using viewpoint correction that can deal with this problem but this is not possible in a simple template, so the app image will not be exactly duplicated in that respect.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi John, hi Joost,

If you are about to include the Insta360 One X and X3 lenses in PTGui 13 as standard lenses and need further calibration images, let me know - via E-mail.

Thanks so far, everything great.

[PTGui Support]

Yes an improved lens profile for the X3 will be included. Thanks Manuel
and Tim for the images.

I could still use a set of images with the camera in different
orientations (portrait, landscape, upside down, lying flat), to
implement automatic leveling.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> hof.jpg
>
> John Houghton schrieb am Sonntag, 21. Juli 2024 um 09:08:56 UTC+2:
>
> Manuel, I prepared a further template by aligning one of the
> 12MP  images with the "Perfect" equirectangular image.  The
> result is good.  The template can never guarantee that the
> verticals will be vertical, as this depends on how well the
> camera is levelled.  But it's easy to level the panorama
> with vertical line control points.
>
> John
>
> On Saturday, July 20, 2024 at 9:27:39 PM UTC+1 Manuel
> Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de) wrote:
>
> Thanks.
> Here just to compare is the absolutely perfect 12MP
> result out of the Insta360 Studio desktop app

> https://malum.de/downloads/x3-12MP-0-Deg-IMG_20240720_163626_00_001-equi.dng.zip <https://malum.de/downloads/x3-12MP-0-Deg-IMG_20240720_163626_00_001-equi.dng.zip>

> https://malum.de/downloads/insta360-x3-6-12MP-0-90deg.zip <https://malum.de/downloads/insta360-x3-6-12MP-0-90deg.zip>

> <http://www.ptgui.com>

>
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[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

No problem - I´ll prepare the photos of One X and X3 in the next days.

I´m wondering whether it is possible to handle landscape/sideways orientation (lenses right/left) with the insta360 cameras at all. 

The "invisible stick" feature of the cameras somehow means that the orientation is essential. I suspect that the two fisheye lenses are tilted slightly so that there is a hole/gap at the bottom.
I have never been able to properly rectify an image from a sideways camera. Such panoramas are virtually unusable.
Images from a flat camera (lenses up/down), on the other hand, are completely unproblematic.
So just lower the insta360 camera, don't turn it - my experience.

I would be curious to see if you can manage to rectify images of a insta360 in landscape orientation.

[John Houghton]

On Monday, July 22, 2024 at 7:58:49 AM UTC+1 Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de) wrote:

I have never been able to properly rectify an image from a sideways camera. Such panoramas are virtually unusable.

Manuel, It shouldn't matter how you hold the camera.  You can always drag and rotate the image manually in the Panorama Editor window into the correct orientation.  Click the Help icon in that window for instructions.  When PTGUI isn't able to automatically level the panorama, use vertical line control points as described in a previous response.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Sounds logical, just not my experience.

So would you mind to try this sidewards photo and generate a project?

https://malum.de/downloads/x3-sidewards-IMG_20240722_080350_00_002.dng.zip

Far beyond my skills. If the lines are vertical, the horizon is somewhere else.

Thanks in advance.

https://malum.de/downloads/x3-sidewards-IMG_20240722_080350_00_002.dng.zip

[John Houghton]

Manuel,  This is not a very convincing project, owing to the very close proximity of the big window and the nasty effects of parallax.  However, it serves to show the general scheme of adding vertical line control points and then running the Level Panorama function on the Edit menu of the Panorama Editor window.  

I added 6 vertical line points as you can see if you display the control points table.  Double click on a point to see how it has been positioned in the Control Points windows. Three points would normally be sufficient.  If you drag the panorama image into a grossly unlevel state and then run the Level Panorama function, you should see it jump back into a nice level state. (If very badly out of level, it's just possible the panorama might end up upside down, but then you can simply roll the image through180 degrees with the numerical transform option or use the rotate buttons on the Project Assistant screen).  The resulting vertical edges here are not ruler straight owing to the parallax.

See part 8 (Levelling) in the video tutorials on the PTGui web site under "Learn".

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi Joost,

here are the calibration images for the One X and the X3, 6 + 12MP, 4 positions + 2x 90° variants. 

If something is wrong or unusable, let me know. Good luck!

https://malum.de/downloads/One-X.zip
https://malum.de/downloads/X3.zip

I´m going to delete the images as soon you have downloaded them, so please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

[Philip Chong]

Hi Manual, I test out your photo.  The photo exposure is good, it is medium.  I was able to edit the sky.

The stitching was painful.  I use John's template, it was a little better  In the end I just say align using the default once, then I do lots of edits here and there.

It could be much easier extend your hand out beyond the window, shoot parallel to building, you can stoop below the window, to edit out later, and take a photo. Because object are so close, it is not going to do a good stitching.

Here's what I did my best :  https://kuula.co/post/5WXkh

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Hi Phillip,

It´s a impossible stitch - of course. I already knew that before.

It was just to show that the orientation of the camera is important - and that images with turned camera can be lost. Even in free nature its nearly impossible to get a straight horizon.

The Insta360 app fails totally, and despite hard work, the result from PTGUi is still unacceptable.

[Philip Chong]

Hi Manual, every manuf will tell you there is a tolerence of how many feet away from the device. It is nature, unless you get a super flat 360 camera.

One manuf claims it will take a good shot in tight space, like bathroom.  It is Xphase Scan..

[John Houghton]

Manuel, The best advice is to attempt to orientate the camera such that the anticipated seam line falls on features that are furthest away where parallax is less of an issue.  Try to avoid the seam line cutting across major nearby features.

John

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

That are sll different problems. Here is a panorama, same position, with lying camera and your third template.

No control points at all, vertical alignment made with a few mouse movements. Just dont ever turn your Insta360 camera, easy.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Concerning stitching distance: I produced panoramas within railroad models 1:5 for a museum.

Here is a room which is about 15cm (!!!) wide. 

https://www.kubische-panoramen.de/20357--_Dienstraum

It was made insta360 One X, stitched with PTgui 11.

The X3 needs more space, as it is thicker.

[Manuel Dahmann (kubische-panoramen-de)]

Here a on location foto in the models toilet. 

In normal surroundings Insta360 cameras produce no stitching errors.