output file much noisier than source files

Lance Gilliland

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Mar 20, 2024, 5:23:11 PM3/20/24

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I am new to PTGUI. My output pano files are much noisier than my source files. Is there a setting or something i'm doing wrong? I haven't seen a conversation on the topic. I'll attach a screenshot of part of the output file to illustrate. What am I missing?

Erik Krause

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Mar 20, 2024, 6:01:22 PM3/20/24

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Am 20.03.2024 um 21:18 schrieb Lance Gilliland:
> My output pano files are much noisier than my source
> files.

Please describe exactly what you do to help us recreate the problem. Do
you input raw files directly to PTGui? Which version do you use? Do you
use any post-processing? Were your images shot in automatic exposure mode?

--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de

PTGui Support

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Mar 20, 2024, 6:08:09 PM3/20/24

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Hi Lance,

My guess is you are using raw files? These actually are noisy, but most
raw converters apply a certain amount of noise reduction by default, so
you may not notice this.

You could convert your raw files to TIFF first in a raw converter, then
stitch the TIFF files.

Or give PTGui 13 a try, this includes a noise reduction feature for raw
files (see the new RAW preprocess tab). PTGui 12 and earlier lack this.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> Source File.png
>
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Lance Gilliland

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Mar 20, 2024, 7:21:31 PM3/20/24

to PTGui Support

Thank you - yes I am using DNG files that have been through lightrooms noise reduction process. I'll try both your suggestions, thanks.

Lance

Lance Gilliland

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Mar 20, 2024, 7:49:44 PM3/20/24

to PTGui Support

converting to TIFF for source files seems to have solved it. Interestingly, PTGui 13 wouldn't accept DNG files for some reason, so I haven't tried the raw preprocess step.

PTGui Support

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Mar 21, 2024, 2:32:20 AM3/21/24

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Hi Lance,

I'd like to fix that. If possible could you share the DNG file with me
at support [at] ptgui dot com?

Thanks,

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

>
> On 20-03-2024 21:18, Lance Gilliland wrote:
> > I am new to PTGUI. My output pano files are much noisier
> than my source
> > files. Is there a setting or something i'm doing wrong? I
> haven't seen
> > a conversation on the topic. I'll attach a screenshot of
> part of the
> > output file to illustrate. What am I missing?
> > Source File.png
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > Groups "PTGui Support" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> it, send
> > an email to ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/9dfce69f-a40a-4429-bf30-7fd5ddd2b1c7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/9dfce69f-a40a-4429-bf30-7fd5ddd2b1c7n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/9dfce69f-a40a-4429-bf30-7fd5ddd2b1c7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ptgui/9dfce69f-a40a-4429-bf30-7fd5ddd2b1c7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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George Palov

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Mar 21, 2024, 10:01:48 AM3/21/24

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Joost, I also noticed that PtGui 13b4 gives error on import from DNG files from Lightroom IF you have applied AI Denoising /built-in Lightroom/.

Kristof Meirlaen (Kri-Soft)

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Mar 21, 2024, 11:03:49 AM3/21/24

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@george: I have question about your workflow.

My testing has shown that the DNG generated by Lightroom does not contain the denoising.

I tested it as follows:

Workflow 1:

- Nikon NEF => import in Lightroom (Classic)

- apply noise reduction

- Export as DNG

- import in PGUI and crank the exposure up to reveal noise in dark areas

Workflow 2:

- Nikon NEF => import in Lightroom (Classic)

- no noise reduction

- Export as DNG

- import in PGUI and crank the exposure up to reveal noise in dark areas

When I compare these 2 workflows, i see absolutely no difference in the output.

So my question: what is your input format, and do you see the noise reduction is saved with the DNG ?

Thanks for clarifying.

gr,

Kristof

Op donderdag 21 maart 2024 om 15:01:48 UTC+1 schreef George Palov:

PTGui Support

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Mar 21, 2024, 2:23:26 PM3/21/24

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Generally raw converters do not actually edit the raw data. If you edit
a NEF/CR2/etc image in Lightroom, it will generate a 'sidecar' file
containing the raw development settings, which will be applied when you
open the raw image another time.

With DNG it may embed the development settings in the DNG metadata, but
it doesn't actually modify the raw data.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> > www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com> <http://www.ptgui.com

> <http://www.ptgui.com>>
> >
> > On 20-03-2024 21:18, Lance Gilliland wrote:
> > > I am new to PTGUI. My output pano files are much noisier
> > than my source
> > > files. Is there a setting or something i'm doing wrong? I
> > haven't seen
> > > a conversation on the topic. I'll attach a screenshot of
> > part of the
> > > output file to illustrate. What am I missing?
> > > Source File.png
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > > Groups "PTGui Support" group.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> > it, send
> > > an email to ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > <mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> >

> >
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> >

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>
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Kristof Meirlaen (Kri-Soft)

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Mar 21, 2024, 2:35:21 PM3/21/24

to PTGui Support

>> With DNG it may embed the development settings in the DNG metadata, but

>> it doesn't actually modify the raw data.

Then the question is: does (or can) PTGui use the development settings in the DNG file?

If not, then why would one process the data with lightroom first, save as DNG, ... if then PTGui uses the original raw data (without any modifications - noise reduction, exposure, color balance, ...)

I have done a lot of testing, and I think the RAW workflow is very nice with PTGui - Import raw (NEF), stitch pano, export raw (DNG) and only afterwards apply all modifications in Lightroom...

gr,

Kristof

Op donderdag 21 maart 2024 om 19:23:26 UTC+1 schreef PTGui Support:

Lance Gilliland

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Mar 21, 2024, 5:37:39 PM3/21/24

to PTGui Support

Joost, I am happy to share one of the source dng files - they are too large to email at 100mb or so. I did use the denoise AI within lightroom, which resulted in the dng files, and I assume the denoise settings were embedded in a sidecar file? If you have an ftp i can use i'll send you a file. When I try to drop them into PTGui, I get an 'assertion failed' error.

Thanks

John Houghton

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Mar 22, 2024, 3:04:01 AM3/22/24

to PTGui Support

On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 9:37:39 PM UTC Lance Gilliland wrote:

If you have an ftp i can use i'll send you a file.

You can use the free service at wetransfer.com to send the file (no need to register), or Dropbox.

John

PTGui Support

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Mar 22, 2024, 4:12:29 AM3/22/24

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Hi Lance,

I'll try in Lightroom, I think I'll be able to reproduce the error.

It's not the sidecar settings (PTGui just ignores these), but probably
LR is outputting a specific dialect of DNG which PTGui cannot yet
handle. DNG is a container format which can contain image data in many
formats.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> <http://www.ptgui.com>> <http://www.ptgui.com

> <http://www.ptgui.com>
> > <http://www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>>>
> > >
> > > On 20-03-2024 21:18, Lance Gilliland wrote:
> > > > I am new to PTGUI. My output pano files are much noisier
> > > than my source
> > > > files. Is there a setting or something i'm doing wrong? I
> > > haven't seen
> > > > a conversation on the topic. I'll attach a screenshot of
> > > part of the
> > > > output file to illustrate. What am I missing?
> > > > Source File.png
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > Google
> > > > Groups "PTGui Support" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from
> > > it, send
> > > > an email to ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > >
> >

> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >

> >
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PTGui Support

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Mar 22, 2024, 4:14:01 AM3/22/24

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No, PTGui ignores all development settings, these are Adobe specific.

So you are right, there's no benefit in pre-processing in lightroom,
unless you are converting the DNG files to actual images and stitch
those in PTGui.

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

On 21-03-2024 19:35, Kristof Meirlaen (Kri-Soft) wrote:
> >> With DNG it may embed the development settings in the DNG metadata, but
> >> it doesn't actually modify the raw data.
>
> Then the question is: does (or can) PTGui use the development settings
> in the DNG file?
> If not, then why would one process the data with lightroom first, save
> as DNG, ... if then PTGui uses the original raw data (without any
> modifications - noise reduction, exposure, color balance, ...)
>
> I have done a lot of testing, and I think the RAW workflow is very nice
> with PTGui - Import raw (NEF), stitch pano, export raw (DNG) and only
> afterwards apply all modifications in Lightroom...
>
> gr,
> Kristof
>
> Op donderdag 21 maart 2024 om 19:23:26 UTC+1 schreef PTGui Support:
>
> Generally raw converters do not actually edit the raw data. If you edit
> a NEF/CR2/etc image in Lightroom, it will generate a 'sidecar' file
> containing the raw development settings, which will be applied when you
> open the raw image another time.
>
> With DNG it may embed the development settings in the DNG metadata, but
> it doesn't actually modify the raw data.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Joost Nieuwenhuijse

> www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> <http://www.ptgui.com>> <http://www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>

> > <http://www.ptgui.com <http://www.ptgui.com>>>
> > >
> > > On 20-03-2024 21:18, Lance Gilliland wrote:
> > > > I am new to PTGUI. My output pano files are much noisier
> > > than my source
> > > > files. Is there a setting or something i'm doing wrong? I
> > > haven't seen
> > > > a conversation on the topic. I'll attach a screenshot of
> > > part of the
> > > > output file to illustrate. What am I missing?
> > > > Source File.png
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > Google
> > > > Groups "PTGui Support" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> > > it, send
> > > > an email to ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com
> > > > <mailto:ptgui+un...@googlegroups.com>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >
> > >
> >

> > >
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> >

> >
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