ProPhotoRGB not recognized by all apps?

[Raster Fasta]

Hello,

 I have a question about how PTGui identifies ProPhoto RGB colorspace in its output files.

 I recently purchased a personal license but noticed the issue while running in demo mode.

 I am running a licensed PTGui v12.24 on Windows 7 x64 OS, and I ran PTGui v12.26 on Windows 7 x64 OS in demo mode.

 I make photographs with a Canon camera and convert from Canon's RAW to 16bit ProPhoto RGB .tif files with Adobe Camera RAW and Photoshop CS6.

 I use the 16bit ProPhoto RGB .tif files in PTGui to make a composite image and output the result as a 16bit ProPhoto RGB .tif.

 I have noticed that the 16bit ProPhoto RGB .tif file I output from PTGui is not recognized as ProPhoto RGB by all my photo-viewing applications. Some recognize it properly, but not all.

 There is something different about the method of color space identification when comparing photo output from Photoshop and PTGui.

 I have found that even if I edit a ProPhoto RGB .tif file produced by PTGui and use it as the first layer while assembling a multi-layer .psd or .psb file in Photoshop, the missing color space information is still missing when I "save as" a .tif file that incorporates all my edits.

 However, I have found that if I select, copy, and paste the contents of a PTGui-produced .tif file into a new blank Photoshop file, the additional colorspace information is made available for all my photo viewing applications to recognize.

 I have attached three small examples illustrating what I am trying to explain.

 All my programs recognize the images labeled "Source.tif" and "PTGui-output-copy-pasted-to-new-photoshop-file.tif" as ProPhoto RGB colorspace.

 The image labeled "PTGui-output.tif" is not recognized as ProPhoto RGB by all my programs, so this image appears pale and washed out when I use a photo viewer to browse my photos.

 I looked at these files with an EXIF viewer and could not see any significant difference.

 I looked at each of these files with a text editor and saw that the tag formatting differs, but I can't recognize a significant difference.

 Is there a PTGui file output setting I can learn about that will provide the colorspace information the same way Photoshop does?

 Thank you!

[jm p]

Hello, 

Is there a PTGui file output setting I can learn about that will provide the colorspace information the same way Photoshop does?

There is no PTGui feature like that.
I am using Photoshop after correcting it with a Photoshop beta Generative AI.
Thank you!

2024년 7월 16일 (화) 오후 6:16, Raster Fasta <craig...@gmail.com>님이 작성:

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[PTGui Support]

Hi,

I don't think there's anything particular to the icc profiles generated
by PTGui 12, they are just standard profiles generated by lcms2. There
are multiple ways to create the same color profile though, for example a
by using a lookup table vs a parametric curve.

Sounds like a limitation of the viewer application. Which application is
that?

If you have an icc profile (in a .icc file) that works for you, you can
select it in the Create Panorama tab.

If you don't mind tinkering, argyllcms includes a command line utility
'extracticc' to extract an icc profile from a tiff or jpeg image:
https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/extracticc.html

Kind regards,

Joost Nieuwenhuijse
www.ptgui.com

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[Raster Fasta]

Hi,

 The photo viewer I would most appreciate using for quick viewing is the old Windows Photo Viewer, which can recognize different color spaces and manage color display.

 I understand that one way of looking at the situation is to regard the photo viewer as having limitations regarding its ability to recognize a standard method of identifying a colorspace.

 I want to learn how Adobe can provide colorspace information recognized by this and other viewers and whether or how that information could be included in PTGuis output.

 I agree that all three examples I have attached here are tagged and recognized by Photoshop as using the ProPhoto RGB colorspace. The only difference is that the example directly output by PTGui has colorspace information that is not recognized by all my photo viewer apps.

 What would the argyllcms utility tell me? Will it just confirm what I already know, that all three examples are set to ProPhoto RGB, or will it also reveal the method of documenting the ICC profile?

 Also, I wonder if you have offered a solution, and I am slow to recognize it. Are you suggesting that I search out and link to the specific ProPhoto RGB ICC profile that Photoshop uses natively on my system rather than use the ProPhoto RGB profile that PTGui is default linked to? Is it possible that I have two (or more) examples of a ProPhoto RGB ICC profile and that PTGui uses one with a format different from the profile used by my Photoshop installation?

 Thank you!

[PTGui Support]

On 16-07-2024 15:06, Raster Fasta wrote:
> Hi,
>  The photo viewer I would most appreciate using for quick viewing is
> the old Windows Photo Viewer, which can recognize different color spaces
> and manage color display.

I've tried the Windows 11 Photos app. It seems to show the PTGui 12
generated ProPhoto image correctly.

I did notice an issue with PTGui 13: the thumbnail in the Photos app was
showing incorrect colors, but after clicking on the image to open it, it
actually shows the colors correctly. I'll investigate this.

Is this what you meant? You seemed to refer to PTGui 12 though?

>  I agree that all three examples I have attached here are tagged and
> recognized by Photoshop as using the ProPhoto RGB colorspace. The only
> difference is that the example directly output by PTGui has colorspace
> information that is not recognized by all my photo viewer apps.
>
>  What would the argyllcms utility tell me? Will it just confirm what I
> already know, that all three examples are set to ProPhoto RGB, or will
> it also reveal the method of documenting the ICC profile?

What you could try is to take a ProPhoto image which your applications
is showing correctly.

Then use the extracticc utility to extract the ICC profile from the image.

I just did this with your
'PTGui-output-copy-pasted-to-new-photoshop-file.tif' file. I have
attached the icc profile here.

Then, in PTGui, in the Create Panorama tab, under 'Output color
profile', choose 'Other' and pick the ICC profile you just created.

Please give it a try.

Joost

[Raster Fasta]

Edit to add: I wrote everything below before seeing your post and the ICC profile you offered for trial.

I will follow your instructions, but I need to step away from this for a while. I will return later and follow your instructions. 

Thank you very much.

......................................................

Hi,

 Yes I am referring to PTGui version 12.24 because I still use Windows 7 x64. I plan to upgrade my photography PC in early 2025.

 I don't particularly think this is a problem with PTGui or OS versions,  I think it is a situation where I need to learn how to make best use of PTGui's settings and options.

I tried linking PTGui directly to the ICC profiles in my Windows installation.

C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\ProPhoto.icm

Nothing changed.

Then I searched out and found some ProPhoto profiles here:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Color\Profiles\Recommended\ProPhoto.icm

Nothing changed.

Then I searched and found these ProPhoto profiles:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Color\Profiles\PPW_False_Profile3_ICC\ProPhoto RGB - Gamma 1,0.icc

C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\Color\Profiles\PPW_False_Profile3_ICC\ProPhoto RGB - Gamma 1,4.icc

When using either of these, the display of panoramas created in PTGui was the same in Windows Photo Viewer as the original image converted by Adobe Camera RAW and used as the source file in PTGui to make the  panoramas.

Thank you.

[Raster Fasta]

Hi,

 Thanks again for providing an .icc file to try. It did not affect any change, but I have good news.

 I changed one of the default settings. 

Create Panorama > File format > Settings > No alpha channel 

Now everything works as I had hoped.

Thank you!