new to large panos - advise about Panoramic Head

[Dave Beckerman]

I'm a fine art photographer working in NYC - and am bidding for a large pano, probably in Central Park.

I currently use a Canon T4i DSLR, and the size of the pano should be 20 feet x 8 feet.  There actually will be two of these panos.

So I found a lot of favorable reviews about PTGui and downloaded the Trial Pro version.  

Here's the question I have: I've come across Robotic GigaPano Heads; and manual Panoramic Heads.

I'm tempted to go with a solid Manual Panoramic Head as there are a lot of negative reviews about build quality of the GigaPano heads (not to mention battery drain etc.)

Can anyone advise me on a good manual Pano Head for either a cropped sensor dslr, or a full-frame DSLR (which I could use instead).

And anything else in terms of resources that I should be reading -- I'd be most grateful.

Thanks --Dave Beckerman

BeckermanPhoto.com

[John Houghton]

Dave, You will need to decide what resolution (ppi) you want your
final image to have, and also approximately what angle of view you
need to cover. Only then will you be able to work out the focal
length of the lens you need and the horizontal and vertical angular
increments. The latter have to be adapted to whatever detents the
panorama head offers.

PTGui can be usefully employed to do most of the calculations for you;
all you need do is load in a few dummy camera images and enter trial
lens details manually on the Lens Details tab in Advanced mode. Set
the output panorama fov as required on the Panorama Editor window and
set the output size to the maximum on the Create Panorama tab. By
tweaking the lens focal length parameter on the Lens details tab, you
can adjust until the required output size is obtained. The lens hfov
and vfov can be noted and the number of images estimated, according to
the amount of overlap required (typically 25-30%).

Alternatively, there are online panorama calculators available. E.g.
http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc.htm . The Nodal Ninja range
of heads are highly recommendable. Once you have established your
requirements in a little more detail, you will be able to decide which
model is likely to be the most suitable - probably one of the Ultimate
M series. There's a Nodal Ninja forum where you can ask for advice
and guidance with exemplary support.

John

[Dave Beckerman]

Thank you John.  All very useful, esp. the calculator.

Basically - ppi would be between 240 ppi and 300 ppi 

Angle of view about 180 degrees (maybe a little less)

I was looking / reading about the Nodal Ninjas... headed in that direction.

There are two things I don't fully understand yet -- 1) how to determine what focal length lens and 2) whether it was crazy to wind up with a number of photos in the grid like 20 across and 8 down (roughly)...

I'm really only a few days into looking into this.  The previous panoramas I did were very simple - just a couple of shots and then stitched in Photoshop with a bit of extra cloning thrown in.  I also did them as HDR so it was three shots for each image -- and results were pleasing.

But this one was so large that it threw me and I realized it wasn't the type of thing I could do by hand.

Will get back to you all with how it goes and what I end up going with.

Thanks again --

Dave

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[Keith Martin]

On 3 Mar 2013, at 13:44, Dave Beckerman <davebe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Basically - ppi would be between 240 ppi and 300 ppi

300ppi is the rule of thumb for output resolution in hand-held print products such as magazines and books that are typically held around 12 to 18 inches away from the eyes.

240ppi is typical for output resolution for images intended for viewing from a little further away than that – say, more than a couple of feet. That's why many dSLRs default to this preset resolution; when printed without scaling the images are already at the 'rule of thumb' ideal resolution that balances size with clarity.

If your typical normal viewing distance is to be much greater than that you can take the output image resolution even lower, allowing a larger area to be covered by the same image. The resolution of images used for billboard posters is generally MUCH lower than most people realise. But remember that anyone walking closer to the final printed image will begin to be more aware of the lower relative resolution of the print.

k

[Dave Beckerman]

This will be on wall of hotel. People can theoretically get close to the 8 foot by 20 foot mural (pan) which is why I was going for fairly high PPI. I also have excellent extrapolation program but don't want to rely on it.
Dave

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[John Houghton]

Dave, For your APS-C camera, and producing a 240ppi image 20' x
8' (180° x 65° in cylindrical projection) , you would need to use an
80mm lens. The fov of the camera image is 10.71° x 16.01°. From that
you can easily work out the number of images needed for a given
overlap.

John

On Mar 3, 1:44 pm, Dave Beckerman <davebecker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you John.  All very useful, esp. the calculator.
>
> Basically - ppi would be between 240 ppi and 300 ppi
>
> Angle of view about 180 degrees (maybe a little less)
>
> I was looking / reading about the Nodal Ninjas... headed in that direction.
>
> There are two things I don't fully understand yet -- 1) how to determine
> what focal length lens and 2) whether it was crazy to wind up with a number
> of photos in the grid like 20 across and 8 down (roughly)...
>
> I'm really only a few days into looking into this.  The previous panoramas
> I did were very simple - just a couple of shots and then stitched in
> Photoshop with a bit of extra cloning thrown in.  I also did them as HDR so
> it was three shots for each image -- and results were pleasing.
>
> But this one was so large that it threw me and I realized it wasn't the
> type of thing I could do by hand.
>
> Will get back to you all with how it goes and what I end up going with.
>
> Thanks again --
>
> Dave
>

> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:21 AM, John Houghton <j.hough...@ntlworld.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dave, You will need to decide what resolution (ppi) you want your
> > final image to have, and also approximately what angle of view you
> > need to cover.  Only then will you be able to work out the focal
> > length of the lens you need and the horizontal and vertical angular
> > increments.  The latter have to be adapted to whatever detents the
> > panorama head offers.
>
> > PTGui can be usefully employed to do most of the calculations for you;
> > all you need do is load in a few dummy camera images and enter trial
> > lens details manually on the Lens Details tab in Advanced mode.  Set
> > the output panorama fov as required on the Panorama Editor window and
> > set the output size to the maximum on the Create Panorama tab. By
> > tweaking the lens focal length parameter on the Lens details tab, you
> > can adjust until the required output size is obtained.  The lens hfov
> > and vfov can be noted and the number of images estimated, according to
> > the amount of overlap required (typically 25-30%).
>
> > Alternatively, there are online panorama calculators available.  E.g.

> >http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc.htm.  The Nodal Ninja range

> > a file sharing site (for examplehttp://ge.tt/) and include a link in
> > your message.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/ptgui

>
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[Keith Martin]

On 3 Mar 2013, at 14:07, Dave Beckerman <davebe...@gmail.com> wrote:

This will be on wall of hotel. People can theoretically get close to the 8 foot by 20 foot mural (pan) which is why I was going for fairly high PPI. I also have excellent extrapolation program but don't want to rely on it.

Okay, it should be fairly high-res, although the 240ppi area should be fine. For a 20ft-wide image at that res you'd need no less than 57600 pixels, and 23040 pixels for the height. You said your pano angle of view is 180 degrees, maybe a little less.

I'm not the best guy to ask about working this out, so this 'guesstimate' could be wrong (I'm sure I'll be corrected! ;), but...

After fiddling with the form at http://www.frankvanderpol.nl/fov_pan_calc.htm I think you're looking at shooting with a lens of around 85mm (actual, not equivalent) and 25 images across your 180-degree sweep. With an overlap of 25-30% you'd get a final stitched image of the above resolution, perhaps slightly higher. You'd need to see how many rows you needed to get the height you'd like, but once you know what lens to use you can figure that out easily by eye (aim for approx 30% overlap) when you have your pano head.

k

[Keith Martin]

On 3 Mar 2013, at 14:33, John Houghton <j.hou...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Dave, For your APS-C camera, and producing a 240ppi image 20' x
> 8' (180° x 65° in cylindrical projection) , you would need to use an
> 80mm lens.

Thanks John, so I wasn't so far off the mark! I did think 80mm might do it, but I thought only just. If the pano was less than 180° it could be handy to have a few more pixels in hand. :-)

k

[silverfox]

Dave,

You might want to consider the AutoMate head before deciding against robotic pano heads.  The build quality far surpasses the GigaPan head and the battery drain is a fraction of any other robotic head.   

[Dave Beckerman]

Thank you all. Will look at automate. Already experimenting with PTgui pro.
Funny thing is, before knowing that much about fov but just based on about 40 years of experience I calculated that with a full frame DSLR and a 100mm lens it was going to take about 30 shots for each horizontal line. When I realized that I started looking into better ways to process pano as my experiments with say 9 shots stitched into a square always held some nasty surprise.
I've been experimenting with different ways of projecting 3d onto 2d without even realizing there were all these tools and formulations.
Thank you all again for pointing me in right direction.

sent from nexus 7
www.beckermanphoto.com

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[Joergen Geerds]

On Monday, March 4, 2013 10:33:55 AM UTC-5, silverfox wrote:

You might want to consider the AutoMate head before deciding against robotic pano heads.  The build quality far surpasses the GigaPan head and the battery drain is a fraction of any other robotic head.

The automate is also considered a non-NPP adjustable head, in other words, multi-row and multi-column shots will suffer from parallax errors. A good manual head like the nodal ninja, or the 360 precision is a much much better investment, with a much better resale value than a one-trick-pony.

[Dave Beckerman]

Joergen -

I do want the Nodal Ninja and am willing to invest in good quality workmanship.  I still have a Linhoff Ballhead which I bought about three decades ago - and still use.  

I actually don't plan on doing 360 degree stuff where the view can move around in the image - though you never know.  My main purpose is to be able to take many shots, say over a hundred, that can be stitched together without an incredible amount of layer - and the view might be 180 or so.

What's generally happened to me though - is that I get my feet wet in some new technology (new to me) and I could end up getting deeper and deeper into it for many years.  

As usual - any advise is welcome up until the point where I've bought the magical black box and gotten used to it :)  Hate when that happens.  

Did a few crude handheld panos this morning with a nodal drop line to keep the nodal in the same place -- just to have something to play with before I can get more serious.  Right now I have a log jam of work...  I think by the weekend I should be able to do more substantial experiments with the Ninja which I hope to have by then - though haven't figure out which one yet.  I think that's the biggest decision to make... i.e. what length lens are you going to generally be dealing with...  My normal lens is a 30mm Sigma on a cropped sensor (T4i); or a 20mm; same camera.  But have been toying around with getting the full-frame 6D.  We'll see.

Best,

Dave

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[Joergen Geerds]

As far as I know, Bill Bailey does occasionally rent equipment to users, or you can ask any of the NYC panorama photographers if they are willing rent you a nodalninja. if you have an old manfrotto 303 in your collection, that works as well.

While stitching a 80x40k image in ptgui is quite possible, you will probably loose some grey hair over aligning 2-10 tiles that don't have enough details for the CP generator to latch on. I would suggest to start with a much smaller number of tiles, with a much wider lens, and try stitching some tests, to actually learn how ptgui works, before jumping into the 'ice water' of making a 3 gigapixel panorama.

DoF will certainly become an issue (at 60-100mm), especially if you are planning to shoot in central park, as well as time, and moving shadows, since it's going to take some time to shoot 100 tiles (if you are really good, you can trim it down to 2-3sec/tile, but 4-15sec are more likely, especially if you also have to pay attention to what you are actually photographing (people in central park generally move around, and have no time to wait for you, or they are tourists, and will linger in a spot where it is most annoying for you, wasting 2-5 min of your shoot, where the shadows of the trees have already moved a great deal).

the real fun usually starts once you want to open the approx. 20GB large PSB file in photoshop to do actual work on the file :-)

good luck with the project, keep us posted how it goes.

[Joergen Geerds]

On Monday, March 4, 2013 2:13:13 PM UTC-5, Dave Beckerman wrote:

I actually don't plan on doing 360 degree stuff where the view can move around in the image - though you never know.  My main purpose is to be able to take many shots, say over a hundred, that can be stitched together without an incredible amount of layer - and the view might be 180 or so.

There is no technical difference between shooting a panorama (aka a partial sphere), or an (interactive) 360x180 (full sphere), the same rules of NPP and all the rest applies. it is only a creative choice at the end of the process how you want to present your "data".

[Keith Martin]

On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:13, Dave Beckerman <davebe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I actually don't plan on doing 360 degree stuff where the view can move around in the image - though you never know. My main purpose is to be able to take many shots, say over a hundred, that can be stitched together without an incredible amount of layer - and the view might be 180 or so.

Shooting with the correct NPP isn't only for interactive pano productions. Any time you intend to blend/stitch multiple shots together if there's any parallax you'll have to put up with problems. Sometimes they're very subtle, but they can be impossible to resolve. Consider using kit that keeps you turning around the NPP of your lens as essential, for serious work anyway.

k

[Joergen Geerds]

On Monday, March 4, 2013 2:13:13 PM UTC-5, Dave Beckerman wrote:

Did a few crude handheld panos this morning with a nodal drop line to keep the nodal in the same place -- just to have something to play with before I can get more serious.  Right now I have a log jam of work...  I think by the weekend I should be able to do more substantial experiments with the Ninja which I hope to have by then - though haven't figure out which one yet.  I think that's the biggest decision to make... i.e. what length lens are you going to generally be dealing with...  My normal lens is a 30mm Sigma on a cropped sensor (T4i); or a 20mm; same camera.  But have been toying around with getting the full-frame 6D.  We'll see.

Both the NodalNinja 4 and the NodalNinja M1 (or M2) are universal panorama heads, that will fit virtually and camera/lens combo, where the M1 will allow you to use longer lenses (150-300) and heavier camera bodies (incl MF). In terms of rotator, I'd go for the RD16-2 (keeping the theme of universal equipment, and not one-trick-ponies) (in the same theme, the M1 is all based on acra-style rails and clamps, which are highly usable for other things as well): http://jam.nodalninja.com/affiliates/jrox.php?id=48_1_bid_19

In regards to tripod and shooting, the usual rule of "as heavy and stable as possible" apply (including weighing down the center column).

[Dave Beckerman]

Will keep everyone up-to-date in this thread with what I end up buying (if you are interested) as well as my first experiments.  It's either that or come back in six months to find that I've been swallowed up by the technology and it's all I can talk or think about :)  That seems to be my modus operandi.  But either way - this is the first group I've found (no kidding) with serious (but not dry) photographers.  It's a good sign.  Must be because it's a very specialized activity.

And yes, I will begin with something simple.  I've been watching a ton of instructional videos.  Tripod is fine for this sort of thing.  Heavy Bogen that I've used for years.  At least it was fine when I did view camera work outdoors.  Ciao.

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[silverfox]

Let's remember that parallax is only an issue if there are foreground objects closer than about 30 feet.  For all other panos, AutoMate works great.  Also, it has many advantages over the others, such as size, weight, programmability, and built-in functionality like panning timelapse capability.

On Monday, March 4, 2013 12:18:07 PM UTC-6, Joergen Geerds wrote:L

[l_d_allan]

Strongly, strongly agree. Perhaps use wide-open aperature on wide-angle lens to get a better idea of DOF issues with 85mm lens.

On Monday, March 4, 2013 3:36:42 PM UTC-7, Joergen Geerds wrote:

 I would suggest to start with a much smaller number of tiles, with a much wider lens, and try stitching some tests, to actually learn how ptgui works, before jumping into the 'ice water' of making a 3 gigapixel panorama.

 

Also I'm curious ... if you don't mind me asking ... about how much do you expect to get paid for this? Rental might make a LOT OF SENSE. IIRC, you now have a  Canon Rebel T4i. A high-quality pano-head could be close to the cost of that body. You could end up earning less than minimum wage for this project, including the learning curve. And a net loss after cost of equpment or rentals.

 

When you read about how gigapans were made, they sometimes involve hours and hours of shooting time, and weeks or months in post processing.

 

There have been a number of threads on this forum about gigapans ... my recollection is that the consensus was that very few gigapans have enough interesting content to be worthwhile. "Just say no to gigapans". There is a classic example of a subway (or train station?) gigapan where an item of interest was a cigarette butt litter. :-(

 

Of course, that is up to the (paying!!!) client.

[Keith Martin]

On 5 Mar 2013, at 00:50, Dave Beckerman <davebe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> But either way - this is the first group I've found (no kidding) with serious (but not dry) photographers. It's a good sign. Must be because it's a very specialized activity.

I find that it's a near-perfect blend of creative challenge and technical challenge. It's also something that's significantly out of the ordinary, which is fun. It helps that there are superb pano-specific products out there (I use both Nodal Ninja and 360Precision gear) – and it also helps that there are fellow pano-specific obsessives in here. :-)

Welcome!

k

[Keith Martin]

On 5 Mar 2013, at 14:55, silverfox <dcfr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Let's remember that parallax is only an issue if there are foreground objects closer than about 30 feet.

Yes, it becomes more obvious the nearer the foreground objects are to the camera. But I almost *never* shoot panoramas where nothing is closer than 30ft from the camera. In most scenarios – certainly for interactive shots rather than broad panoramic scenes – if everything's far away and there's no sense of near/far differences the end result will feel quite flat and dull.

However, it might be worth considering whether there's any more pano-specific gear around that could work WITH the AutoMate to place the lens in the right NPP. Maybe even just a precise slider, not even something made for panorama shooting?

k

[Joergen Geerds]

that is my impression for this device ever I saw it 5 years ago, and what made me think of it as a one-trick-pony. parallax is always present, even for scenes with 10-100m objects (like s many of my night panoramas of NYC), and I saw stitching problems even with NPP being off by 2-3mm at 35-70mm lenses on high-end pano heads, so claiming that there is no parallax error for scenes beyond 10m isn't doing a service to the community. But on the other hand, I am in strong favor of manual heads anyway, and you can easily shoot a perfect gigapixel manually with a NN M1 at 150-200mm, faster than any of the "cheap" robotic heads, and with more paying attention to details. 'going postal' as Jeffrey Martin does for his gigapixel records definitely requires high-end robotic heads like a peaceriver or a clauss rodeon, which is one of the reasons why a more universal tool in your bag is preferable. of course if money, time and space are no issue, I would always rrecommend to buy every piece of equipment, and use it appropriately (where the automate is probably great for long mountain panoramas)

[Dave Beckerman]

This commission will pay well.  I know how much work it will take and factored that in.  

In other words, I knew that it was going to involve stitching something like 25 images per row times n rows (tbd).  

It's even more complicated than I've written about so far.  But on the other hand - this subject is one of the few areas of photography that I haven't played with in any systematic way, and I see a huge market for good panos -- I leave "good" to your own imagination but I sell quite a lot to hotels, corporate institutions, etc.

But I have decided that whether the commission comes through or not - I will spring for some version of Ninja Nodal that will work with a full-frame - since I'm also going in that direction anyway.  I'll just be careful not to "go nuts" with the cost of equipment at this point.

DB

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[l_d_allan]

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 9:28:18 AM UTC-7, Joergen Geerds wrote:

I am in strong favor of manual heads anyway, and you can easily shoot a perfect gigapixel manually with a NN M1 at 150-200mm, faster than any of the "cheap" robotic heads, and with more paying attention to details.

 

Agree. For I while I got he gigapan fever and made a few. IIRC, about 150 to 200 non-hdr captures were involved with a 5dm2 and ~150mm focal length.

 

Once I got the hang of it, it really didn't take all that long, even with a manual, entry-level Panosaurus ver2.0 without click-stops. It does have 72 markings at 5 degree intervals, which I found adequate. Perhaps 5 to 10 minutes per gigapan with 5 rows of 30 images?

[Dave Beckerman]

FYI. Ordered NN4 Tripod Head with RD16 II Rotator for Panoramas from bhphoto. Will arrive today. Already have ptgui.

So by this weekend should have some idea of whether am on right track.

Wouldn't have had a clue as to where to begin without this group.
DB
DB

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[silverfox]

so claiming that there is no parallax error 
for scenes beyond 10m isn't doing a service to the community.

I should have said that it also depends on the focal length of the lens.  If you are using a lens 100mm or longer focused at infinity, as you would for the kind of pano the OP described, whatever effects you might get from parallax are too blurred to be seen or affect the stitching.  The out-of-focus blurring might affect the stitching but it would have with or without parallax effects.  

As to night cityscapes, this one was taken with AutoMate and the lens was three inches out of the NPP in the vertical direction and yet there are no noticeable parallax effects and it stitched without problem.  But of course the nearest object was about 30 meters away.

AutoMate is much more than a one-trick pony and you do a disservice to the community to describe it as such.   People use it for panning and non-panning timelapses, as a wireless remote with 100 meter range, for remotely controlling video cameras, making still HDR's (and panos) with a very large range of exposures, for positioning lights in the studio, and many other things.  And it is uniquely user-programmable in several different ways.

[Dave Beckerman]

SilverFox - just a quick note about AutoMate.  I am as you know new to this whole subject; and I found many of the capabilities of AutoMate very intriguing.  The one thing I was sort of wishing and it seems as if AutoMate is going in that direction, is that you could use Android - maybe on a tablet like the Nexus 7 (which I happen to have) - to do the programming etc.  I see that already you can use Android for some functionality - but I think I might have sprung for it just for the hell of it if I had an app that I could download to my Nexus 7 that offered complete control over the robots programming.  Still - I don't see it as a one-trick pony at all - and that it has certain properties that are quite desirable.  Dave

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[Joergen Geerds]

The automate has its uses, absolutely, many and plenty of them. It was in the context of this thread, where the automate would not be the first choice.

[Dave Beckerman]

Joergen - yep.  Understood.  

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Joergen Geerds <jge...@gmail.com> wrote:

The automate has its uses, absolutely, many and plenty of them.  It was in the context of this thread, where the automate would not be the first choice.

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[Dave Beckerman]

And now for the ultimate stupid question - what community or group did I join?  I looked for a Google Group called ptGui and found one.  But it doesn't show that I'm a member.  Am I a member?  Would sure like to be.  And btw - still sitting here nearing 6pm New York time waiting for my Ninja Nodal contraption...  UPS says that it was on their truck as of 7 a.m. this morning...  Once they rang the bell near 9pm.  Anyway - am I in a group called ptGui... ?  Are you?

[Henrik]

Can't help you with the UPS, but it looks like you are in the right group

😄

Henrik

Sent from my iPhone

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[Dave Beckerman]

Cool.  The NN4 and RD16 II just arrived...

Opened up package - which all looks beautiful.  Now - can someone point me at a good beginners video for putting this together? :)  I don't really have a clue as to what settings to use etc.  Let's just keep it simple and say I want to configure it to use a 20mm lens, cropped sensor, and take 3 vertical shots... or whatever... any good example would be useful as there seems to be many more parts than I need.

Just a couple of good basic tutorial videos giving the premises would be very useful.  All I know is that the purpose is to move around the nodal point and that you get to decide what the fov for each click should be?  I think?

It is sort of fun to be so ignorant after years of being the expert.

Thanks -- in advance.

Dave

[Dave Beckerman]

OK.  Found all the tutorials plus this link which helped a lot.

http://wiki.panotools.org/Entrance_Pupil_Database

Can't wait to start shooting.
DB

sent from nexus 7
www.beckermanphoto.com

[Gill747]

Hi Dave from VT.

I grew up in NYC in the 60's at 80 East End.

I started shooting panoramas four years ago with a Panosaurus rotator.

After about a year I sold it on EBay for almost what I bought it for and bought a Nodal Ninja 3 with the RD 16.

Although there is no comparison to the two heads, shooting with the Panosaurus, helped me from good shooting habits for panoramas.

I shoot with a Sony A55 (1.5x) with a 135 mm lens for gigapans and an array of other lenses for my panoramas.

There is a ton of information on the Web and YouTube about panorama photography.

Here is one about finding the "nodal point":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_622897&feature=iv&src_vid=k0HaRZi-FWs&v=1jAhwFLimM0

Here is a series of  8 videos Florian did on panoramas from start to finished stitching . Here is the first one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_622897&feature=iv&src_vid=k0HaRZi-FWs&v=1jAhwFLimM0

Good luck.

Richard

[Dave Beckerman]

Thanks Richard...

I couldn't sleep last night.  The NN and Rotator arrived around 8 pm and there were all these pieces, and washers, and stops hanging from strings (etc.) and the upper rail and lower rail... and I had that freaked out feeling you get (some of us get) when something arrives from IKEA and you think - WTF am I going to do with all these pieces.

It's now 8 a.m. and my system is setup to rotate around the pupil point (or whatever you want to call it) and I can move the 20mm around without changing the parallax and it's all very exciting.  I had the same feeling years ago when I first fell into serious infrared work (both film and digital) and this whole new world opened for me.  

The people in this PTGUI group have consistently pointed me in the right direction.  At least that I could purchase what I needed to be able to do panos and gigapanos etc.  Now, I'm going to take a nap - and soon I'll be out on 83rd street and second avenue and start to have fun.  

In general - over the years - I've tried to take techniques that have been used in proscribed ways and use them in new ways in the city.  An example of that was when I was shooting with a 4x5 view camera and took it down into a crowded subway car.  Put the black cloth over my head... etc.  It's still one of my favorite shots.

Once I get the hang of pano -- one of my first things will be to use my Infrared Digital Camera to do IR panos.  Can't wait.  I'm sure it's been done before, but I haven't seen much of it.  I'm also pretty much of an expert with HDR -- so there are a lot of techniques to play with.

I'll be posting some of the results here... but I expect most of my new work will be in my blog: www.BeckermanPhoto.com/blog

And hopefully eventually I'll be using the new setup for what got me started with this originally - the request to do two 20 foot x 8 foot panos for a NY hotel. 

Best,

Dave 

[Richard C Gillespie]

David

Do you use a filter for your infrareds or did you have a camera converted.

I have two Minoltas (5 and 7D) and am thinking about having one converted to infrared.

[Dave Beckerman]

Richard
I use converted DSLRs.
No comparison to using filters. Simply much easier.
Before that I used Kodak hie film.
Highly recommend the digital conversion. Basically' as Ive upgraded to new dslr I've converted previous DSLR.
Search my store beckermanphoto.com for tons of both film and digital converted DSLRs. Also tons of info in my blog.
I also did shooting with a converted flash, I.e. ir flash that only emitted ir light a la Weegee.
About half of my sales are infrared and even some combos of HDR and ir.
Pano and IR will be fantastic combination.
DB

sent from nexus 7
www.beckermanphoto.com

[Dave Beckerman]

And so the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.  Thank you all!  

Sorry for the mundane subject matter - but I usually begin with something mundane.  Here's the first image with the NN.

http://www.beckermanphoto.com/blog/nodal-ninja-pano-head-arrives/

[Dave Beckerman]

We had some snow in NYC this morning... and the NN is beginning to make sense to me... esp. how to use those detents and plugs with the wires attached to them.  This was shot with a 20mm full frame lens on crop sensor dslr.  33 images.  Not perfect, but if I had brought gloves - I could have done better. Fingers freezing to the metal this morning :)  I could have done it as a rectilinear or a bunch of other options - but this had that spaceship feeling to it.

 http://www.beckermanphoto.com/blog/steps-around-metropolitan-museum/

[Joergen Geerds]

Hi Dave,

glad your NN arrived, and you managed to set it up. NodalNinja.com has really nice tutorials on their site, and all the videos and a great forum for support. you should really take advantage of it.

In addition, the panoramic photographers group on Facebook is right now the largest and most important community worldwide: http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/

It is also closely tied to the IVRPA.org, since virtually all IVRPA members are in the FB group, and I happen to be on the board of the IVRPA. Should the pano bug bite you more seriously, come to the Iceland conference: http://www.iceland2013.org (I'll be talking about 360 videos, and Joost will be there as well, talking about ptgui etc). It is a great place to learn and expand your horizon, and meet some of the best and most knowledgable panorama photographers in the world.

The facebook group has also a host of links and tutorials: http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/files/

especially http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/doc/146524832058303/

[Dave Beckerman]

See below

sent from nexus 7
www.beckermanphoto.com

On Mar 8, 2013 7:27 PM, "Joergen Geerds" <jge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
> glad your NN arrived, and you managed to set it up. NodalNinja.com has really nice tutorials on their site, and all the videos and a great forum for support. you should really take advantage of it.
>
> In addition, the panoramic photographers group on Facebook is right now the largest and most important community worldwide: http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/

It has hit me bad :). I was quite bored with my photography and hadn't done any creative work for two months.  The commission came through from an art buyer  for a giga pano andbthat  that pulled me in. Although I spend most of my time reworking old images pano has ended my ennui.

Dave

> It is also closely tied to the IVRPA.org, since virtually all IVRPA members are in the FB group, and I happen to be on the board of the IVRPA. Should the pano bug bite you more seriously, come to the Iceland conference: http://www.iceland2013.org (I'll be talking about 360 videos, and Joost will be there as well, talking about ptgui etc). It is a great place to learn and expand your horizon, and meet some of the best and most knowledgable panorama photographers in the world.
>
> The facebook group has also a host of links and tutorials: http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/files/
> especially http://www.facebook.com/groups/panoramicphotographers/doc/146524832058303/
>
>

[Dave Beckerman]

I promised to do a post showing what I've been up to once I found my way through the Ninja Nodal and the PTGui world.  As it turns out, I ended up switching from PTGui to Kolor Auto Pan Giga.  I found APG much simpler to use.  In fact, once I made the switch to APG the time spent with stitching large giga files became simpler and easier for me.

This may all just be a matter of taste.  But I can say that the Kolor interface just made more sense to me.

At any rate, if you'd like to see some of the progress I've made, you can check it out in my photoblog at:  www.BeckermanPhoto.com/blog

I've mostly been using a Sigma 30mm lens; but tonight for the first time moved to a 100mm Canon Zoom lens (70-300mm).  I didn't have any issues with it, though I just shot at 100mm - nothing longer.  The whole pano scene continues to be an exciting, rewarding area for me.  At first it was all about the technical stuff, but I've mostly passed through that level and am shooting shots that have some artistic value as well.

Best regards,

Dave

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Dave Beckerman <davebe...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a fine art photographer working in NYC - and am bidding for a large pano, probably in Central Park.

I currently use a Canon T4i DSLR, and the size of the pano should be 20 feet x 8 feet.  There actually will be two of these panos.

So I found a lot of favorable reviews about PTGui and downloaded the Trial Pro version.  

Here's the question I have: I've come across Robotic GigaPano Heads; and manual Panoramic Heads.

I'm tempted to go with a solid Manual Panoramic Head as there are a lot of negative reviews about build quality of the GigaPano heads (not to mention battery drain etc.)

Can anyone advise me on a good manual Pano Head for either a cropped sensor dslr, or a full-frame DSLR (which I could use instead).

And anything else in terms of resources that I should be reading -- I'd be most grateful.

Thanks --Dave Beckerman

BeckermanPhoto.com

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