360 pano with 8mm fisheye on aps-c camera - Help

[Jonathan Teo]

Hello,

I am trying to do a 360 pano with the following setup:

Sony A6300 (APS-C Camera) 

Rokinion 8mm F2.8 UMC II Fisheye Lens 

I have taken 4 photographs at 90 degree point but it seems that it is still no enough to cover the top and bottom of the pano picture even though the FOV of the lens is 180 degrees.

Is there any way in which i can do a 360 pano just by having 4 photos or do i still have to shoot 1 for the top and 1 for the bottom (6 pictures in total)

Previously i had a friend who managed to do a full 360 pano on his full frame camera with the tokina 10-17mm fisheye, which also is 180 FOV.

Could someone please provide some advice?

I have attached the picture in this thread.

Thanks!

Jonathan 

[PTGui Support]

Hi Jonathan,

Have you checked the Crop tab in PTGui? It looks like the cropping
circle is set too small.

You might want to try PTGui 11, it contains a preset for this lens:
www.ptgui.com/beta

Kind regards,

New House Internet Services BV
Joost Nieuwenhuijse

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PTGui - Photo Stitching Software

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For support see: http://www.ptgui.com/faq/
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[John Houghton]

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 2:42:29 PM UTC, PTGui Support wrote:

Hi Jonathan,

Have you checked the Crop tab in PTGui? It looks like the cropping
circle is set too small.

 

Isn't this is a fullframe fisheye on APS-C?  All the sample images I can find show a fullframe format, so zenith and nadir images would be required for a 360x180 panorama.

John

[Jonathan Teo]

Hi John,

I am afraid you may be wrong.

There is a FF equivalent, which is the 12mm fisheye. And that is also 180 FOV on a FF camera. 

Regards,

Jonathan 

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[Erik Krause]

Am 15.12.2017 um 17:23 schrieb Jonathan Teo:
> I am afraid you may be wrong.

John is never wrong. ;-)

> There is a FF equivalent, which is the 12mm fisheye. And that is also 180
> FOV on a FF camera.

Do you see a circular image? I bet not on an APS-C sensor (since I own
that lens myself and use it on a EOS 700D). Hence it is a fullframe lens
on APS-C. The field of view might be 180°, but only along the image
diagonal. If you didn't use the camera slanted you are out of luck.

--
Erik Krause

[Jonathan Teo]

Hi Erik,

Okay thank you for the explanation. 

But if it is a FF lens, then shouldn't there not be a black border surrounding the image when it is used? Or rather should i say this is an aps c lens that should be used on a FF camera in order to achieve a 360 pano with just 4 images without the nadir and zenith shots. 

I hope my sentence made sense but i think i understand the point you are putting across now. I am still not getting the full circular image as the sensor on my a6300 is cropping it off, but on FF i can see the whole image entirely (as a circular image).

I will look to purchase a pano head and try again with 6 shots next. Hopefully i can get a good stitch. 

Thanks for all the help guys!

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[Erik Krause]

Am 15.12.2017 um 17:54 schrieb Jonathan Teo:

> But if it is a FF lens, then shouldn't there not be a black border
> surrounding the image when it is used?

No, just the other way round. Fullframe fisheye means that the image
circle fills the full frame without any black borders. If the image
circle diameter equals or is smaller than the longer side of the sensor
this would be a cropped circular fisheye. If it equals or is smaller
than the shorter side it is a full circular one.

A fullframe (FF) sensor equals the former 35mm film format and has a
size of 24x36mm. APS-C is roughly 25mmx16,7mm but most cameras vary this
a bit (the sony has 23.5 x 15.6). The samy 8mm has an image circle
diameter of about 30mm and hence acts as a cropped circular fisheye on
FF and as a full frame fisheye on APS-C, which has a diagonal of about
30mm.

Since your Sony has a diagonal of only 28mm it doesn't cover 180°
diagonally. But if you shoot slanted (such that the diagonal of the
sensor is vertical), you can get a full sphere with only 4 shots if you
tilt the camera slightly up. You get a nadir hole then, but this would
be your tripod and needed to be covered or patched anyway.

However, a zenith shot is quickly done and you get much better image
quality in the zenith this way.

--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de

[John Houghton]

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 2:34:36 PM UTC, Jonathan Teo wrote:

Previously i had a friend who managed to do a full 360 pano on his full frame camera with the tokina 10-17mm fisheye, which also is 180 FOV.

In published specifications of lenses, the fov (unless otherwise stated) generally refers to the fov of the diagonal of the image frame or the image circle.  The Tokina zoom lens on a full frame camera will give 180 degrees across the diagonal at a focal length setting of  around 15mm - broadly similar to your Rockinon 8mm lens on an APS-C camera.  At a focal length setting of around 12mm, the Tokina lens gives a full vertical 180 degrees fov in portrait orientation (a cropped circular fisheye image), so your friend likely used that for a 4 shots around 360x180 panorama.

John

[Roger Williams]

You might want to consider using a ring mount to attach your lens (and it’s camera) to the tripod. This would allow you to set the long diagonal of the frame vertically. Most manufacturers claim their fields of view based on the long diagonal, so often this is the only way of getting away without having to take additional zenith and/or nadir shots.

Roger

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[Jonathan Teo]

Thanks for the informative advise everyone. It has been most helpful, i will require some time to read through and understand it for now!! It is all very new to me. 

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Roger Williams <ro...@adex-japan.com> wrote:

You might want to consider using a ring mount to attach your lens (and it’s camera) to the tripod. This would allow you to set the long diagonal of the frame vertically. Most manufacturers claim their fields of view based on the long diagonal, so often this is the only way of getting away without having to take additional zenith and/or nadir shots.

Roger

On Dec 16, 2017, at 1:06, John Houghton <houghto...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 2:42:29 PM UTC, PTGui Support wrote:

Hi Jonathan,

Have you checked the Crop tab in PTGui? It looks like the cropping
circle is set too small.

 

Isn't this is a fullframe fisheye on APS-C?  All the sample images I can find show a fullframe format, so zenith and nadir images would be required for a 360x180 panorama.

John

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[Jonathan Teo]

Hi Joost Nieuwenhuijse,

I have tried the new PTGui Beta version, however it seems to be extremely slow compared to the previous PTGui version i was using, stitching and processing just takes forever.

Would you have any idea why this is such?

Regards,

Jonathan 

[Erik Krause]

Am 16.12.2017 um 16:37 schrieb Jonathan Teo:
> I have tried the new PTGui Beta version, however it seems to be extremely
> slow compared to the previous PTGui version i was using, stitching and
> processing just takes forever.
>
> Would you have any idea why this is such?

That's a know problem of the beta. According to Joost improvement is in
the works.

[Jonathan Teo]

Hi Everyone,

So i have bought myself a pano head and have managed to successfully stitch up a 360 pano after much trial & error. 

However i am now trying to remove the tripod image from the bottom of the pano and after much trial and error and experimenting, i tried this new method which i figured out myself.

In Panorama Editor i selected the "Rectilinear" icon and then selected -> Sterographic Down -> Projection Settings -> 0 Horizontal Compression, it makes the bottom of the pano extremely flat and symmetrical so exported this image in this format to photoshop and managed to clone out the tripod quite easily due to the zero distortion in the pano image.

However the new problem arises here, when i import the newly photoshopped image back to PTGUI i am unable to reverse the steps that i took earlier on to change it back to a 360 spherical pano, does anyone have any suggestion on how i can transform the image back to its original dimensions/shape etc.?

I have attached the 2 sample images in this post. The original image being the 360 pano and the new image with the tripod being photoshopped out, but in a squarish image format.

Thank You!

Jonathan   

[PTGui Support]

Hi Jonathan,

5.22 mentions a simple technique to do this:
https://www.ptgui.com/support.html#5_22

Kind regards,

New House Internet Services BV
Joost Nieuwenhuijse

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PTGui - Photo Stitching Software

www.ptgui.com
For support see: http://www.ptgui.com/faq/
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[Jonathan Teo]

Hi Joost,

I have actually tried that technique before, however it doesn't seem to work well for symmetrical tiles as the tiles are lines are still in a distorted fashion making it very hard to clone out the tripod. 

Would you have any idea regarding my previous enquiry on how i can convert the rectilinear image back to a spherical 360?

Thank You,

Jonathan 

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[Jonathan Teo]

Okay no worries. I have solved the problem. I shot a separate Nadir shot handheld and managed to blend it into the final pano using the masking tool to remove the tripod. 

[John Houghton]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:42:43 AM UTC, Jonathan Teo wrote:

Hi Joost,

I have actually tried that technique before, however it doesn't seem to work well for symmetrical tiles as the tiles are lines are still in a distorted fashion making it very hard to clone out the tripod. 

Would you have any idea regarding my previous enquiry on how i can convert the rectilinear image back to a spherical 360?

Load in your 360x180 image into PTGui.

Apply a pitch adjustment of -90 with the Numerical Transform option to bring the nadir to the centre of the output area (in the Panorama Editor window).

Set the output projection to rectilinear and adjust the field of view as required - eg 90x90 degrees, say. Make a note of the horizontal fov used.

On the Create Panorama tab, set the output size to maximum and generate the nadir image.

Edit as required in Photoshop.

Start a new project with PTGui and add the edited nadir image.

Set the lens type to rectilinear and fov to 90 (ie. the hfov value noted above).

Apply a pitch adjustment of +90 with the Numerical Transform option to shift the view down to the nadir area.

Set the output projection to equirectangular 360x180.

Select output size to maximum and generate the equrectangular image.

That image can be merged with the original 360x180 image in Photoshop by layering the two images and flattening them.

Tip: Avoid changing the edges of the generated rectilinear image in any way so that it merges perfectly when put back into the original equirectanglular image.

There are other methods of editing the nadir area.  One common method is to generate 6 cubic tiles (90x90 rectilinear views).  Edit the nadir tile and then combine the 6 tiles back into an equirectangular image.  The free Pano2QTVR program provides these facilities. Or you can use Pano2VR (not free).  Or you can use PTGui with templates (Extract and insert floor image.pts) from  http://www.erik-krause.de/ttt/index.htm .

John

[Jonathan Teo]

Hi John,

Thank you for this tip. I will try it out today and see how it goes and revert back.

Regards,

Jonathan 

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