Retouching nadir

[Bill Mumford]

I have been retouching nadirs for a while now, by creating cube faces
with Cubic converter, but it seemed like it would be easier to use the
PTGUI tools to do it, so I tried it out. It failed completely-I get a
360 equirectangular that is wrapped around the nadir instead of the
nadir being at the center or I get a view that is wrapped around the
zenith, but I never get a view from the bottom of a 360x180
rectilinear.I think I am not understanding the instructions correctly,
but I have carefully tried it 5 or 6 times. Latest version PTGui Pro,
MacBookPro. What could I be doing wrong?
Bill

[Peter Nyfeler]

Hi Bill

Am 24.01.12 19:12, schrieb Bill Mumford:

Take a look here:
http://www.erik-krause.de/ttt/index.htm#Bodenbild_extrahieren

Download the ptgui templates and you are done ;-)

Best regards

Peter

[Bill and Jean Mumford]

Hi Peter, I appreciate the help, but I have never used a template in PTGui before, and I can't seem to get this to work. I am opening my 360x180 equirectangular as a new project, but the first thing that comes up is the camera info-what do I do there? How do I apply the extract template?

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[Peter Nyfeler]

Hi Bill

1. Load equirectangular image to PTGui
2. Click on the third button in the menue bar and choose  "extract.pts"
3. Go to "Create Panorama" tab, click maximum size" and generate panorama (cube face)
4. After retouching this nadir cube face, add it aswell to PTGui
5. Load template "insert.pts"
6. Go to "Create Panorama" tab, enable both images, click maximum size and generate Panorama

HTH

Peter



Best regards

Peter


Am 24.01.12 22:34, schrieb Bill and Jean Mumford:

[Ken Warner]

This is my way to do that without templates.

1) Get your pano the way you like it.
2) The little [123] button on the pano editor will bring up a little
dialog. In the middle slot (Pitch) enter -90 degrees and click Apply.
That will give you a down view of your pano.
3) Make the pano the usual way and the size you want.
4) Do your retouching.
5) Start a new project and use your down shot pano as the only image.
6) Lens Settings tab -> Lens type [equirectangular panorama]
7) Panorama Settings tab -> Equirectangular with Field of view: 360 x 180
8) In the pano editor make sure the whole pano is visible
9) Use the little [123] button and this time set pitch to 90 degrees and Apply.
This "should" give you your pano back with your touchups in the nadir.
10) Make your pano again in the usual way.

I may have left out some steps. And sometime PTGui can make funny artifacts in the nadir and
seam but that's the general way to do it.

[Bill and Jean Mumford]

Hi Ken,

Do I need to start by making a QTVR to get everything to come out right? I think I started with a 360x180, and it gave me a really strange stitch, with a good nadir, and zenith, but north and south were pinched, and east and west looked good. I will try again. 

[Ken Warner]

No need for QTVR. You have to make sure all the FOV's are 360x180. FOV's can be changed
in various spots. Inspect them all for correctness.

[Bill Mumford]

Hi Ken, what should I do when the    Camera/(EXIF)   lens data window opens-do I just close it? It doesn't seem like I need to enter anything there because I am building the pano with a 360x180 image.

Bill Mumford

gravit...@mac.com

[Ken Warner]

Just close it...

[Bill Mumford]

OK  I haven't gotten it to work exactly right yet, but I like the workflow, and will try some more to get it down.

[Ken Warner]

It does take some fussing around at first. Once you figure out all the details
it goes really fast.

[John Houghton]

The disadvantage of the method Ken suggested is that you are obliged
to do the image editing in an equirectangular format. It is far more
convenient to work on a rectilinear image, where straight line
features remain straight. Cloning tiles or floorboards to fill a hole
in the floor, for example, is then easy. Erik's templates, suggested
by Peter, provide a straightforward way of generating cubefaces (in
rectilinear format, of course,) and to answer Bill's question of how
to use the templates:

1. Load in the image(s)
2. Close the camera info dialog that appears, as that information is
about to be input from the template.
3. Apply the template via File->Apply template (or Mac equivalent on
the menu bar).
4. Select Advanced mode and go to the Create Panorama tab
5. Click Set Optimum Size and select Maximum Size.
6. Hit Create Panorama.

As an alternative, you might try the Photoshop plugins from Rune
Spaans, which provide an easy way of editing both nadir and zenith in
the equirectangular image, with a useful rotate option that enables
straight line features to be aligned with the horizontal/vertical for
convenience.

http://www.superrune.com/technical/software_spheretocubic.php

John

> >>>>>>>> Please do not add attachments to your posts; instead upload your files at a file sharing site (for examplehttp://ge.tt/) and include a link in your message.
> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/ptgui
> >>>>>>> Bill and Jean Mumford
> >>>>>>> bjmumf...@comcast.net

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> >>>>> Bill and Jean Mumford
> >>>>> bjmumf...@comcast.net

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> >>> Bill Mumford
> >>> gravityim...@mac.com

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>

> > Bill Mumford
> > gravityim...@mac.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Roger D. Williams]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:07:23 +0900, John Houghton
<j.hou...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> As an alternative, you might try the Photoshop plugins from Rune
> Spaans, which provide an easy way of editing both nadir and zenith in
> the equirectangular image, with a useful rotate option that enables
> straight line features to be aligned with the horizontal/vertical for
> convenience.
>
> http://www.superrune.com/technical/software_spheretocubic.php

I second John's recommendation of the SuperRune plugins. They are
very easy to use. Just be aware that they are not 64-bit compatible.
They will run as 32-bit plugins on a 64-bit computer (as they do on
my Windows 7 machine) but they will not run in 64-bit PhotoShop.

And if you also suffer from zenith holes, you can deal with both in
the same operation.

Roger W.

--
Business: www.adex-japan.com
Pleasure: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
Panorama: Rogerama at Photosynth

[Geoff - Spherical Visions]

The same routines also work with Paint Shop Proif you don't have or use Photoshop

[Ken Warner]

My nadir's rarely have straight lines. Usually they are rocks, dirt and foliage or snow.
If I was doing a tiled nadir, I certainly would want straight lines straight.

[Bill Mumford]

Hi Ken, when I set the  "Lens Settings" to Equirectangular Panorama what do I set the lens "horizontal field of view"  at? This seems to be where it breaks down.

[Bill Mumford]

Ken-I think I have it-I need to set the "Lens Corrections parameters" to  0  or  -0.

On Jan 24, 2012, at 6:18 PM, Ken Warner wrote:

Bill Mumford

gravit...@mac.com

[John Houghton]

On Jan 25, 5:16 pm, Bill Mumford <gravityim...@mac.com> wrote:
> Ken-I think I have it-I need to set the "Lens Corrections parameters" to 0 or -0.

That is correct - it should default to those values anyway. Just make
sure the the lens fov is set to 360. In all cases, the output
panorama fov should be set to 360x180 and the pixel dimensions should
therefore be in the exact ratio 2:1, for example 8000x4000, 11500x5750
etc.

John

[Ken Warner]

I forgot to mention that you don't need to align or optimize because there are no
control points. The only operations are in the pano editor to rotate the down shot
pano up 90 degrees.

[Ken Warner]

All you have to do on the Lens Settings tab is set the Lens type: Nothing else is needed.

[glamourbomb]

FWIW, I have found this tutorial by Florian Knorn of http://Pano.ie to
be tremendously helpful:

http://youtu.be/WYbEHkxkOds

[Joergen Geerds]

Out of all workflow suggestions, I found the two droplets that are part of the krpano tools the fastest and easiest way:

1. drop your equirect (jpg, tiff, flat psd or psb etc) on the "Convert SPHERE to CUBE droplet" and you get 6 cube faces. 

2. retouch the _d (down) image (or any of the others)

3. drop the 6 cube faces onto the "Convert CUBE to SPHERE droplet"

4. (shift) drop the new equirect back into your original photoshop file

5. add a mask, and only reveal the areas that you just fixed in step 2 (to prevent image degradation in all other areas)

6. merge your fixes with the original

7. continue with your normal workflow

2-3 minutes maximum to get great nadir patch, no templates, no headaches, no mismatches, no visible seams, no problems.

the steps above obviously require that you own a krpano license (always a good investment these days), and photoshop.

(Joost, please forgive me plugging other products in your support forum)

[John Houghton]

The extract/insert nadir templates used in the tutorial are very good
but need to used with care. That video departs from the instructions
in Erik's readme file by ending with generating the final panorama
from the remapped edited nadir + the original image. In doing so, the
blending performed by PTGui will unfortunately lose the outer regions
of the nadir image where you might very well have made some
alterations. Assuming that you want more-or-less all of the nadir
image to be inserted, you need to output the remapped nadir image
alone (as would happen by following the readme instructions). This
can then be layered above the original panorama image in Photoshop and
merged by simply flattening the image to effectively insert the whole
of the nadir image. (Or the edges can be feathered a little if
necessary to avoid any slight evidence of a seam line).

Alternatively, if using the Pro version of PTGui, you might use the
blend priority option and/or masking to force the inclusion of all (or
nearly all) of the nadir image into the output panorama.

John

[Bjørn K Nilssen]

Pￜ Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:55:40 +0100, skrev John Houghton <j.hou...@ntlworld.com>:

> On Jan 25, 5:39 pm, glamourbomb <glamourb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> FWIW, I have found this tutorial by Florian Knorn ofhttp://Pano.ieto
>> be tremendously helpful:
>>
>> http://youtu.be/WYbEHkxkOds
>
> The extract/insert nadir templates used in the tutorial are very good
> but need to used with care. That video departs from the instructions
> in Erik's readme file by ending with generating the final panorama
> from the remapped edited nadir + the original image. In doing so, the
> blending performed by PTGui will unfortunately lose the outer regions
> of the nadir image where you might very well have made some
> alterations. Assuming that you want more-or-less all of the nadir
> image to be inserted, you need to output the remapped nadir image
> alone (as would happen by following the readme instructions). This
> can then be layered above the original panorama image in Photoshop and
> merged by simply flattening the image to effectively insert the whole
> of the nadir image. (Or the edges can be feathered a little if
> necessary to avoid any slight evidence of a seam line).

I usually extract/insert a slightly wider "cube" face, at 100 deg. fov in PTgui (or PS/Superrune).
It usually lessens the need for editing at the outer edges of the nadir/zenith.

--
Bjï¿œrn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas

[Bill Mumford]

I appreciate all the help, and I can get Kens templateless method to
work, although, as pointed out, nadirs with straight line in them can
be a problem. I would still like to get the Erik Krause templates to
work, but after many tries, I am getting the most weird results I have
ever seen. The last one overlaid the nadir on the entire
equirectangular panorama. I am going to type that work flow here, and
maybe someone can point out what may be missing or whatever. I know
it's me making a mistake.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Usage:
*extract_floor.pts

Load the equirectangular sourse image in PTGui, use 'Apply Template'
from the menu to apply extract_floor.pts, don't optimize.
Set output size, format and name on 'Create Panorama' tab page and
press 'Create Panorama'.

The warning 'The project has not been optimized...' can be safely
ignored.

Edit the created image. Don't close PTGui and the project.

*insert_floor.pts:

Add the edited image to the project(Source Images->Add)

Use "Apply Template" from the menu to apply insert_floor.pts, don't
optimize.
On 'Create Panorama' tab set output size to source panorama size.
Set format and name and press 'Create Panorama'.

The warning 'The project has not been optimized...' can be safely
ignored.
(c) Erik Krause 2009
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there some subtle command or instruction that needs to be added to
this? Maybe the drop down menu that I am using to 'Add the source
images is the wrong one ( I am using the one from "Images"
Bill

On Jan 25, 1:56 pm, Bjørn K Nilssen <b...@bknilssen.no> wrote:

> Bj rn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas

[John Houghton]

Bill, After you have edited the square extracted nadir image, add it
to the still open PTGui project. Apply the insert_floor template and
compare the tab parameter settings with these screen shots:

http://www.johnhpanos.com/ss-lens.gif
http://www.johnhpanos.com/ss-pano.gif
http://www.johnhpanos.com/ss-image.gif
http://www.johnhpanos.com/ss-create.gif

Note that the thumbnail of the nadir image (fov 90x90) shows it
remapped to the position at the bottom of the equirectangular. This
is the result of the pitch parameter being set to -90. Its lens type
is set to rectilinear, whereas the original panorama image remains as
equirectangular with fov 360. The Create tab shows that only the
nadir image is to be included in the output, so the original
equirectangular pano is blanked out of the Panorama Editor window.

John

On Jan 26, 12:14 am, Bill Mumford <bjmumf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I appreciate all the help, and I can get Kens templateless method to
> work, although, as pointed out, nadirs with straight line in them can
> be a problem. I would still like to get the Erik Krause templates to
> work, but after many tries, I am getting the most weird results I have
> ever seen. The last one overlaid the nadir on the entire
> equirectangular panorama. I am going to type that work flow here, and
> maybe someone can point out what may be missing or whatever. I know
> it's me making a mistake.

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------------------------

> Usage:
> *extract_floor.pts
>
> Load the equirectangular sourse image in  PTGui, use 'Apply Template'
> from the menu to apply extract_floor.pts, don't optimize.
> Set output size, format and name on 'Create Panorama' tab page and
> press 'Create Panorama'.
>
> The warning 'The project has not been optimized...' can be safely
> ignored.
>
> Edit the created image. Don't close PTGui and the project.
>
> *insert_floor.pts:
>
> Add the edited image to the project(Source Images->Add)
>
> Use "Apply Template" from the menu to apply  insert_floor.pts, don't
> optimize.
> On 'Create Panorama' tab set output size to source panorama size.
> Set format and name and press 'Create Panorama'.
>
> The warning 'The project has not been optimized...' can be safely
> ignored.
> (c) Erik Krause 2009

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­--------------------------------------

> > Bj rn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas- Hide quoted text -

[Bill Mumford]

Hi John,thank you for the time you are putting into this for me. I have done everything exactly as shown, my pages match yours exactly, but when I create the panorama , my completed pano tiff showed only the floor part of the image in equirectangular projection-the whole upper part was blank. I tried checking the box for image 0 on 'included images' and it worked perfectly! Thank you very much. This panorama will appear in a few days on 360 Cities  as  "Hennepin Canal" if you care to look for it. 

Bill

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Bill Mumford

gravit...@mac.com

[luc_villeneuve]

Please send the link Bill.

Luc

[John Houghton]

On Jan 26, 5:46 pm, Bill Mumford <gravityim...@mac.com> wrote:
> when I create the panorama , my completed pano tiff showed only the floor part
> of the image in equirectangular projection-the whole upper part was blank.

> tried checking the box for image 0 on 'included images' and it worked perfectly!

Read my response of 25th Jan. concerning possible blending effects.
Another way of ensuring that all of your nadir edits make their way
into the final panorama is to select output format PSD + Individual
images only, with both images selected for inclusion. The PSD file
can be opened in Photoshop and just flattened. This will guarantee
that the whole of the edited nadir is included in the panorama. This
may not make the slightest difference in your current panorama, but
you will surely run into problems eventually if you always allow PTGui
to do the merging.

John

[Chris Ellenbogen]

Peter I have a question,

I've downloaded Erik Krause's extract/insert plugin but where when I go to File>Apply Template>Other to add this plugin where should it be kept on my computer?

On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 4:35:24 PM UTC-6, pitdavos wrote:

Hi Bill

1. Load equirectangular image to PTGui
2. Click on the third button in the menue bar and choose  "extract.pts"
3. Go to "Create Panorama" tab, click maximum size" and generate panorama (cube face)
4. After retouching this nadir cube face, add it aswell to PTGui
5. Load template "insert.pts"
6. Go to "Create Panorama" tab, enable both images, click maximum size and generate Panorama

HTH

Peter



Best regards

Peter


Am 24.01.12 22:34, schrieb Bill and Jean Mumford:

Hi Peter, I appreciate the help, but I have never used a template in PTGui before, and I can't seem to get this to work. I am opening my 360x180 equirectangular as a new project, but the first thing that comes up is the camera info-what do I do there? How do I apply the extract template?

On Jan 24, 2012, at 2:07 PM, Peter Nyfeler wrote:

Hi Bill

Am 24.01.12 19:12, schrieb Bill Mumford:

I have been retouching nadirs for a while now, by creating cube faces

with Cubic converter, but it seemed like it would be easier to use the

PTGUI tools to do it, so I tried it out. It failed completely-I get a

360 equirectangular that is wrapped around the nadir instead of the

nadir being at the center or I get a view that is wrapped around the

zenith, but I never get a view from the bottom of a 360x180

rectilinear.I think I am not understanding the instructions correctly,

but I have carefully tried it 5 or 6 times. Latest version PTGui Pro,

MacBookPro. What could I be doing wrong?

Bill

Take a look here:
http://www.erik-krause.de/ttt/index.htm#Bodenbild_extrahieren

Download the ptgui templates and you are done ;-)

Best regards

Peter

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Bill and Jean Mumford

bjmu...@comcast.net

[Alessandro Fenocchio]

How can I install those templates?

[John Houghton]

On Friday, February 10, 2017 at 5:47:39 PM UTC, Alessandro Fenocchio wrote:

How can I install those templates?

You can open the template project file with PTGui and then use File->Save as template.   It's not necessary to do this if you simply want to apply a template for testing purposes.  Just use File->Apply template, select "Other" and browse to the folder where the template file is located.

John