Upside down panorama
Hansen
using my Nikon D300 with the Nikon 10.5 unshaved fisheye.
Thought I was doing something wrong and in an attempt to find out I
created 4 panoramas, 3 images each. One group is with the Rotate Tall
function on, on group with it off; then in each group 3 images with
the shutter release button up, 3 with it down. I shot using a Nodal
Ninja head in portrait mode.
All 4 panoramas were upside down.
Has anyone any idea of what's happening and what I can do "fix" it?
As a control, if you will, I did the same thing with my D3 and Nikon's
70-300 lens and the resulting panoramas were right-side up - rotate
tall is off.
...Yes, I have both changed the attitude of the images before loading
them into PTGui as well as changing the Roll in PTGui to get my
panorams right-side-up.
Thanks
Bob
Erik Krause
> All 4 panoramas were upside down.
Are they upside down in the pano editor already or only the finished
pano? Do you by chance use smartblend for blending? However, in any case
you should provide a project file (the .pts that PTGui writes if you
chose "File -> Save project" from the menu) somewhere for download.
Could you also prepare downsized versions of your source images and see
whether it happens there as well. If yes, it would be good you provide
them too, together with the relevant project file.
--
Erik Krause
http://www.erik-krause.de
PTGui Support
Can you provide a set of source images?
Please do not add attachments to your posts; instead upload your files
at a file sharing site (for example http://ge.tt/ ) and include a link
in your message.
The problem should be easy to fix though: just press one of the rotate
buttons in the Project Assistant (right hand side of the screen) twice
after setting up the panorama.
Joost
ROBERT HANSEN
Need to suspend this for a bit - I'm getting crazy, inconsistent results.
My D3 control loads images shot in portrait mode as portrait
My D300 loads images shot in portrait mode as landscape; if the shutter
release was down, the top of the image is to the left; release up the top
is to the right.
My file structure is two folders - one Rotate Tall On, the other Rotate Tall
Off; in each 6 images - 3 with shutter release up, 3 with it down, two
panoramas in each folder, 4 panoramas in all
One time Align Image presents right side up, another upside down regardless
of the position of the shutter release. Rotate Tall on or off seems
immaterial.
This morning, opened the files on my lap-top, same results
(my primary storage is on an external hard disk - have been doing this for
years without difficulty)
(my desk top runs Windows 7 Pro; my laptop Windows 7 Home Premier; both are
64 bit machines)
This morning, I erased what I had done yesterday and started anew - creating
one panorama in each folder for each position of the shutter release, as its
position seems somewhat key.
I then set about to duplicate what I had just done without consistent result
This morning (not citing a time-line) shut my desk top down left it off for
several minutes; In the course of my efforts PTGui stopped working at least
4 times; did not crash on my laptop but then I wasn't using it as much.
After the last time, results seemed to stabilize - now more often than not,
right side up or down seems to be following the shutter release button
position, but not 100% either way.
As I'm only using 3 images, loading and aligning goes rather rapidly and I
was rapidly in and out of align with new projects seeking some consistency
(it was while doing this that PTGui would stop working)- I think it may be
there but I want to give it over night and look again tomorrow - I leave my
computer on 24/7 to take advantage of automatic updating. I did NOT save
any that I was "testing" - had I done so, likely would have had a dozen or
more panoramas.
Given the same results tomorrow, the next thing I am going to try is
removing my lens and giving it and the camera a cleaning. I have been using
the fisheye and the 300 exclusively together and thus have seen no need to
remove the lens. After reattaching I'll shoot duplicative sequence
Sorry for the ear-bending but this frustrating - especially so since I am
unable to say "Here's the problem..." because one time its this, the next
time its that.
I do realize there are means to manipulate the panorama to right side up in
the Align Images or with the Image Parameters and by rotating the file
images - as I mentioned, I've done all of that; just seems to me shouldn't
be necessary.
Appreciate your interest and offer to help.
Bob
Hi Bob,
Joost
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John Houghton
and over again, it makes sense to make use of a template. This will
avoid all your problems and help to get much more consistent results.
From a previous good stitch, you will know the angles of yaw pitch and
roll the shots are taken at; moreover you know the values of all the
lens parameters. If you do the decent thing and hand all this
information to PTGui by first loading the images and then do File-
>Apply Template (i.e. a good project file), you leave it with very
little to do - just fine tune the now already good alignment by
assigning control points and optimizing. The control point generator
works significantly better when the images are already reasonably well
aligned, and the risk of things going awry in the optimization is very
much reduced.
This assumes that you are being equally consistent in processing your
camera images for input to PTGui. E.g. convert RAW to TIFF, always
ending up with the images in the same orientation - either always all
in portrait, or always all in landscape. Application of the template
will orient the images correctly. A panorama in the correct
orientation is assured every time.
John
ROBERT HANSEN
believe it fits as there are several things of which you were unaware as I
have not mentioned them previously:
1. I shoot JPG
2. I move from the camera card onto my hard disk and then access with PTGui
3. I do not do any preprocessing of images before taking them to PTGui.
Whatever processing I do is to the completed panorama.
4. The images referred to in this situation were created with specific
conditions to test the effect of the rotate tall and position of the shutter
release button on the attitude of the panorama.
This was done because the recent panoramas I have been making with my D300
and 10.5 fisheye have all been created upside down and I sought to find out
why.
After (to paraphrase) "getting out of the trees" this morning after my note
to Joost and Erick, it came to me that as I seemed to be getting the same
results with both computers it must be something common to both - I doubt
it is the external hard disk or the transfer of data from it to computer,
which leaves the camera and lens. Will work on this tomorrow.
5. Up 'till now have there has been "more than enough on my plate" and have
seen no need to delve into Template processing - all I know about it is that
it is there.
Regards
Bob
John
--
ROBERT HANSEN
Bottom Line - whatever is going on is not something that is likely to be
fixable, or at least with reasonable effort if at all.
As I mentioned I would, I removed my lens and cleaned the contacts on it and
the camera
Next I shot another series of three images with the shutter release button
up and three down; Rotate Tall seemed to be immaterial so I just left it
turned off as I usually keep it
I transferred the images to my external hard disk in their own folder
Connection to the external disk by my desk top is hard wired, my lap top
wireless
Before structuring my tests, I tried several alignments with the "Physically
rotate images with EXIF Orientation tag upon loading" unchecked - had no
effect
I did three sets of six tests with each computer - each test consisted of
loading the button up and the button down images to the two computers, I
loaded two tests in each set the with same images loaded simultaneously on
both computers .
My desk top had been on all night, turned my lap top on for the test.
First set I loaded images, aligned and then started a new project without
saving
Out of 12 opportunities - 8 panoramas were right side up, 4 upside down,
Second set I exited PTGui after each alignment
Out of 12 opportunities - 4 panoramas were right side up, 8 upside down
Third set - I restarted both computers and exited PTGui after each alignment
Out of 12 opportunities, 6 panoramas were right side up, 6 upside down.
Each computer had 18 opportunities, the distribution was different in each
set, albeit ending up half and half
desk top - 9 right side up, 9 upside down
Lap top - 9 right side up, 9 upside down
The only thing left to do that I can see is to copy the images onto the
internal disks of each computer and see what happens then. I see no sense
in doing this as I will continue storage on the external hard disk. I'll
just use the work-around's
I'm not so concerned about the 360/180 with the fisheye as there are only 9
images; I am concerned about the multiple row with long lens that I will be
playing with.
I'm offering this to satisfy any curiosity you may have, to solicit any
thoughts that may strike you and to say again thanks for your interest and
"ear".
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: PTGui Support
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 6:08 AM
To: pt...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PTGui] Upside down panorama
Hi Bob,
Joost
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Erik Krause
> Bottom Line - whatever is going on is not something that is likely to be
> fixable, or at least with reasonable effort if at all.
Please provide project files and eventually source images like requested
several times. Anything else is futile.
John Houghton
is of any significance. One thing that will vary between runs with
the same set of images is the generation of control points. i.e. you
won't get exactly the same set of points generated each time, so the
optimization results will not be exactly the same.
Have you tried repeating a run with a single set of images (one that
has a propensity to come out upside down) to see if mere repitition
can produce differently oriented panoramas? But as Erik rightly
points out, we can make little contribution towards solving this
without a set of images and project file being made available.
John
ROBERT HANSEN
I loaded and went to Align Images 36 times between the two computers - did
not create any panoramas though because the Align showed me what was going
to be.
Between the two computers, each made 9 panoramas right side up and 9 upside
down; there was no consistency. There are two sets of 3 images each
My time is now 10:35 PM - tomorrow I will make panoramas so as to have .pts
files to go with the images and upload thru ge.tt.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: John Houghton
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:54 PM
To: PTGui Support
Subject: [PTGui] Re: Upside down panorama
John
--
ROBERT HANSEN
Erik
Will do tomorrow as I mentioned to John a moment ago
bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Krause
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:40 PM
To: pt...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PTGui] Re: Upside down panorama
--
ROBERT HANSEN
http://www.ge.tt/5cFcqbG?c
Above is the link to:
The 3 images making
the panorama as Align Images rendered it without modifications and
the .pts file
Inasmuch as the upside/right side seems independent to the attitude of the
shutter release button I just used one set of images - the "button down".
If you think it makes a difference I can provide the "button up" images also
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Krause
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:40 PM
To: pt...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PTGui] Re: Upside down panorama
--
ROBERT HANSEN
-----Original Message-----
From: John Houghton
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:54 PM
To: PTGui Support
Subject: [PTGui] Re: Upside down panorama
John
--
Erik Krause
> http://www.ge.tt/5cFcqbG?c
> Above is the link to:
> The 3 images making
> the panorama as Align Images rendered it without modifications and
> the .pts file
>
> Inasmuch as the upside/right side seems independent to the attitude of the
> shutter release button I just used one set of images - the "button down".
> If you think it makes a difference I can provide the "button up" images also
I can't find anything strange. The images all have EXIF orientation 0�
(normal) which might indicate that in-camera rotation sensor was off
(which is recommended for sphericals). If I load the images into PTGui
and press Align Images, the result is oriented correctly (sky up), but
this may be random, since both ways seem possible (the other way might
have happened in the project you provided). If I rotate them correctly
on Project Assistant tab, the panorama is rotated accordingly.
John Houghton
> I can't find anything strange. The images all have EXIF orientation 0
> (normal) which might indicate that in-camera rotation sensor was off
> (which is recommended for sphericals). If I load the images into PTGui
> and press Align Images, the result is oriented correctly (sky up), but
> this may be random, since both ways seem possible
time) and the panorama comes out sometimes correctly oriented and
sometimes upside down. PTGui cannot know which is the correct way up
as the orientation tag is normal as Erik says. It presumably assumes
a horizontal row, but that's about it. I don't know how PTGui decides
which way to rotate the image, but the process seems finely balanced
in this case. With a nudge in the right direction, PTGui gets it
right.
John
gravityimage
opened upside down.
Bill
Hansen
On the one hand I had hopes that some cause open to a fix could be
found by those with more knowledge than I -
On the other hand, I feel pretty good because it seems that I'm not
doing something I shouldn't be doing and thus don't need to hang my
head in embarrassment.
Bob
PTGui Support
The images are rotated sideways. For a human it's easy to see that the
blue sky should be in the top of the panorama, but not for a computer.
Either rotate the images prior to pressing Align Images, or correct it
afterwards if PTGui has chosen the wrong orientation.
Joost
ROBERT HANSEN
That's one of the "work-arounds" I anticipated
Question in my mind is why they load that way. The one's you looked at were
taken with shutter release button down; shutter button up lays them on their
side also but with the top to the right...
-----Original Message-----
From: PTGui Support
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 6:46 AM
To: pt...@googlegroups.com
PTGui Support
that case it will always create pictures in landscape format.
But turning the orientation sensor off is actually preferable,
especially once you include zenith or nadir shots. You just need to tell
PTGui which way is up by pressing one of the two rotation buttons in the
Project Assistant. Should take you a second at most.
Joost