cpu overload messages, drop outs, and other random pro tools issues
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Rocco Fiorentino
Jun 15, 2016, 1:06:52 AM6/15/16
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Hi all,
I’ve been having some strange issues with my machine and working with Pro Tools the last few months and was hoping someone here either experienced something similar or had suggestions for troubleshooting. All of this will take some explanation, so please bear with me.
I have two macBook Pros. One is a 2012, and the other is a newer 2014. Both are laptops. The 2012 model has a 2.5 ghz intel core i5 processor, while the 2014 macbook has a 2.8 ghz intel core i5 processor. The 2014 model is my main computer, while the 2012 one was just an old laptop I still have, not really being used. For most of this discussion, I’m referring to the 2014 macBook. I’m using a Roland Studio Capture USB audio interface.
Everything seemed to be working ok, until I updated to Elcaputan in November of 2015. I’m not saying that Elcaputan is the cause of the issues, but I’m saying that’s when I think I started to see these things start to appear, gradually. First, pro tools had very rare, random errors of “cpu overload” during playback or recording. My buffer size was set to 256 samples, which hadn’t changed, but these cpu errors started to appear more frequently and with less playback or recording time between them. Then I cleared out some old files, did a clean install of everything, and everything was ok again, for the time being. That only lasted for about 2 months. Near the end of January, the cpu issue started coming back, with vengeance. There were times when I couldn’t even play through a measure of a session without it popping up with the error, and the only way to resolve it was by restarting pro tools, or sometimes the whole machine. Recordings started to sound like record players, because of all the popping and clicking when it did allow the session to play back without the error. And then there were the days that nothing went wrong. Recording was perfect, no errors, everything was fine. But those perfect days started to become fewer and fewer, while nothing was really changing. I updated everything to the latest versions, including plugins, pro tools, my interface driver, mac os, etc.
By the beginning of May it had gotten worse again, this time starting to effect the system sound itself without pro tools. If I send system audio to my interface simply from the output of the sound preferences, audio plays back perfectly, for about 5 minutes. Then it just stops. The interface is still on, everything looks ok, no errors, but no audio either. If I restart the audio stream, or the song playing, etc. it is fine for another 5 minutes, then the same thing happens. Confused by all of this, I made a backup of the entire 2014 machine, and cloned it to my 2012 macbook. Strangely, none of these issues happen on my 2012 macbook. No cpu overload errors, no dropping out of audio, no pro tools crashes due to this, and no popping on recordings. But, the computer is significantly slower then my 2014 model, so I’d rather not make it my primary machine. But I still don’t understand why this older laptop is performing better then my newer, more powerful one.
I then took my 2014 macbook to the Apple store, to see what the genius bar had to say. They sent it out for repair, and I got it back after they replaced the logic board and fan. This still had no effect on the system or the issues I’m having. So now I’m in the technology blame game. I called roland, and explained everything, and they told me it’s a problem with my computer. But Apple tells me there’s nothing wrong with my hardware. And if it was something software related, wouldn’t it show itself in the clone of this machine on my 2012 macbook? All of my sessions are on an external hard drive. I’ve tried moving some to internal, with no change in performance. I’m running pro tools 12.5, and elcaputan version 10.11.4 on both machines. My sessions are usually somewhere between 50 to 80 tracks or so, with numerous plugins on each track, which is a lot, but why then, does the older laptop sail through it like it’s nothing? If anything, the older laptop should be having the issues that my newer one is having. Also, I’m using an artist mix control surface, powered by Econ and the EuControl software. All of that is up-to-date as well.
I’m not sure what my next step is now. Do I do a clean reinstall of everything, and risk that my problem still may not be solved? Do I just deal with it like this? Or do I switch to my older laptop and deal with the lag of VoiceOver, etc. for better pro tools performance? I do have wifi and bluetooth enabled on both machines, because I’m working on getting ethernet in the room I’m I’m in at the moment, but in the meantime I still need internet. Turning one or the other or both off for long periods of time has not seemed to effect protools performance, for better or worse on either machine. I apologize for the lengthy post, and hope I wasn’t too detailed, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything.
Thanks so much,
Rocco Fiorentino
I’ve been having some strange issues with my machine and working with Pro Tools the last few months and was hoping someone here either experienced something similar or had suggestions for troubleshooting. All of this will take some explanation, so please bear with me.
I have two macBook Pros. One is a 2012, and the other is a newer 2014. Both are laptops. The 2012 model has a 2.5 ghz intel core i5 processor, while the 2014 macbook has a 2.8 ghz intel core i5 processor. The 2014 model is my main computer, while the 2012 one was just an old laptop I still have, not really being used. For most of this discussion, I’m referring to the 2014 macBook. I’m using a Roland Studio Capture USB audio interface.
Everything seemed to be working ok, until I updated to Elcaputan in November of 2015. I’m not saying that Elcaputan is the cause of the issues, but I’m saying that’s when I think I started to see these things start to appear, gradually. First, pro tools had very rare, random errors of “cpu overload” during playback or recording. My buffer size was set to 256 samples, which hadn’t changed, but these cpu errors started to appear more frequently and with less playback or recording time between them. Then I cleared out some old files, did a clean install of everything, and everything was ok again, for the time being. That only lasted for about 2 months. Near the end of January, the cpu issue started coming back, with vengeance. There were times when I couldn’t even play through a measure of a session without it popping up with the error, and the only way to resolve it was by restarting pro tools, or sometimes the whole machine. Recordings started to sound like record players, because of all the popping and clicking when it did allow the session to play back without the error. And then there were the days that nothing went wrong. Recording was perfect, no errors, everything was fine. But those perfect days started to become fewer and fewer, while nothing was really changing. I updated everything to the latest versions, including plugins, pro tools, my interface driver, mac os, etc.
By the beginning of May it had gotten worse again, this time starting to effect the system sound itself without pro tools. If I send system audio to my interface simply from the output of the sound preferences, audio plays back perfectly, for about 5 minutes. Then it just stops. The interface is still on, everything looks ok, no errors, but no audio either. If I restart the audio stream, or the song playing, etc. it is fine for another 5 minutes, then the same thing happens. Confused by all of this, I made a backup of the entire 2014 machine, and cloned it to my 2012 macbook. Strangely, none of these issues happen on my 2012 macbook. No cpu overload errors, no dropping out of audio, no pro tools crashes due to this, and no popping on recordings. But, the computer is significantly slower then my 2014 model, so I’d rather not make it my primary machine. But I still don’t understand why this older laptop is performing better then my newer, more powerful one.
I then took my 2014 macbook to the Apple store, to see what the genius bar had to say. They sent it out for repair, and I got it back after they replaced the logic board and fan. This still had no effect on the system or the issues I’m having. So now I’m in the technology blame game. I called roland, and explained everything, and they told me it’s a problem with my computer. But Apple tells me there’s nothing wrong with my hardware. And if it was something software related, wouldn’t it show itself in the clone of this machine on my 2012 macbook? All of my sessions are on an external hard drive. I’ve tried moving some to internal, with no change in performance. I’m running pro tools 12.5, and elcaputan version 10.11.4 on both machines. My sessions are usually somewhere between 50 to 80 tracks or so, with numerous plugins on each track, which is a lot, but why then, does the older laptop sail through it like it’s nothing? If anything, the older laptop should be having the issues that my newer one is having. Also, I’m using an artist mix control surface, powered by Econ and the EuControl software. All of that is up-to-date as well.
I’m not sure what my next step is now. Do I do a clean reinstall of everything, and risk that my problem still may not be solved? Do I just deal with it like this? Or do I switch to my older laptop and deal with the lag of VoiceOver, etc. for better pro tools performance? I do have wifi and bluetooth enabled on both machines, because I’m working on getting ethernet in the room I’m I’m in at the moment, but in the meantime I still need internet. Turning one or the other or both off for long periods of time has not seemed to effect protools performance, for better or worse on either machine. I apologize for the lengthy post, and hope I wasn’t too detailed, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything.
Thanks so much,
Rocco Fiorentino
Slau Halatyn
Jun 15, 2016, 8:03:57 AM6/15/16
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Hi Rocco,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. For what it's worth, your subject line implies that it's a Pro Tools issue and it certainly does affect Pro Tools but it clearly sounds like it's a hardware/software issue with the 2014 machine and El Capitan. You seem to have followed all of the right steps to isolate and treat the problem. The only thing that I could think of at this point is to roll back to Yosemite. that's the only thing that I can think of that might bypass any hardware and software conflicts. Please keep us posted on how things develop.
Best,
Slau
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. For what it's worth, your subject line implies that it's a Pro Tools issue and it certainly does affect Pro Tools but it clearly sounds like it's a hardware/software issue with the 2014 machine and El Capitan. You seem to have followed all of the right steps to isolate and treat the problem. The only thing that I could think of at this point is to roll back to Yosemite. that's the only thing that I can think of that might bypass any hardware and software conflicts. Please keep us posted on how things develop.
Best,
Slau
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mcdiemert
Jun 15, 2016, 9:03:40 AM6/15/16
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To add to this, I'd be curious how you're connecting your interface to the MBp?
The only other time I experienced something like what you are
describing, turned out I had a bad piece of Ram in my Mac mini. Agree
with Slau here, deffinitly sounds hardware related. I believe there is
an apple test you can run pre startup to test all hardware components
its been years since I've run such a test, and I don't believe VO
spoke during the process.
Write me off list, if you can't find how to run the test, and I'll dig
in my documentation and get you some directions.
--
Warm Regards:
Matt Diemert
330-980-0046
The only other time I experienced something like what you are
describing, turned out I had a bad piece of Ram in my Mac mini. Agree
with Slau here, deffinitly sounds hardware related. I believe there is
an apple test you can run pre startup to test all hardware components
its been years since I've run such a test, and I don't believe VO
spoke during the process.
Write me off list, if you can't find how to run the test, and I'll dig
in my documentation and get you some directions.
Warm Regards:
Matt Diemert
330-980-0046
Phil Muir
Jun 15, 2016, 9:39:30 AM6/15/16
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Yup. Known bad RAM or faulty hardware components to do this kind of thing
on Mac's.
on Mac's.
Alan Macdonald
Jun 15, 2016, 4:25:00 PM6/15/16
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Hi Rocco,
I'm running a 2012 Macbook pro with yosemite and pro tools 12.4. I first encountered this problem with the same machine whilst on mavericks and it is indeed the most frustrating and swear inducing problem I've encountered.
Whilst on mavericks, I used to use a Digi 002 when I first saw this. I had that setup working for ages on mountain lion with no issues. I tried all the steps you mentioned from buffer size adjustments and I even borrowed another 002 unit from a friend but with the same result. He tested my 000 unit with his system and again it worked fine so all problems pointed towards my Macbook.
Now, here's the thing... When one of the small security updates appeared, I installed it, did the necessary reset and thought nothing of it. But when I went back into pro tools my setup went from virtually unusable to working like a dream. At this point I should stress that pro tools still worked fine without the Digi connected so I could still work with one hand tied behind my back but after this update my relief was unmatched, especially as I was only a couple of months away from finishing college.
Since moving to yosemite, it was fine at first also until I had to install another security update. And sure enough, this set me back to the dreaded cpu overload and buffering messages. Off the top of my head I think that was late last year or early this year. Like you said, there is no rhyme nor reason and sometimes it works for a bit and others it's a disaster. I've upgraded to a 003 now but it's the same issue.
Now, another software security update appeared in mid may which I installed and did the necessary reset again. I went on holiday right after that and haven't had time to check if it's sorted it out this time or not as I'm not long home but I'll be getting my teeth back into it next week so I'll let you know.
Is there any way you can think back to when these problems first appeared or can you match them to the timeline of the software updates I've to see if the time scale fits what I've said here? Quite simply if I get it to a point when it works flawlessly again then I'm going to ignore said updates.
If anything I've said here has sparked any further ideas or suggestions from anyone then I'm also keen to hear them.
Hope this helps you in some way Rocco,
Cheers,
Alan,
Oban, Scotland
Sent from my iPhone
I'm running a 2012 Macbook pro with yosemite and pro tools 12.4. I first encountered this problem with the same machine whilst on mavericks and it is indeed the most frustrating and swear inducing problem I've encountered.
Whilst on mavericks, I used to use a Digi 002 when I first saw this. I had that setup working for ages on mountain lion with no issues. I tried all the steps you mentioned from buffer size adjustments and I even borrowed another 002 unit from a friend but with the same result. He tested my 000 unit with his system and again it worked fine so all problems pointed towards my Macbook.
Now, here's the thing... When one of the small security updates appeared, I installed it, did the necessary reset and thought nothing of it. But when I went back into pro tools my setup went from virtually unusable to working like a dream. At this point I should stress that pro tools still worked fine without the Digi connected so I could still work with one hand tied behind my back but after this update my relief was unmatched, especially as I was only a couple of months away from finishing college.
Since moving to yosemite, it was fine at first also until I had to install another security update. And sure enough, this set me back to the dreaded cpu overload and buffering messages. Off the top of my head I think that was late last year or early this year. Like you said, there is no rhyme nor reason and sometimes it works for a bit and others it's a disaster. I've upgraded to a 003 now but it's the same issue.
Now, another software security update appeared in mid may which I installed and did the necessary reset again. I went on holiday right after that and haven't had time to check if it's sorted it out this time or not as I'm not long home but I'll be getting my teeth back into it next week so I'll let you know.
Is there any way you can think back to when these problems first appeared or can you match them to the timeline of the software updates I've to see if the time scale fits what I've said here? Quite simply if I get it to a point when it works flawlessly again then I'm going to ignore said updates.
If anything I've said here has sparked any further ideas or suggestions from anyone then I'm also keen to hear them.
Hope this helps you in some way Rocco,
Cheers,
Alan,
Oban, Scotland
Sent from my iPhone
TheOreoMonster
Jun 15, 2016, 4:37:42 PM6/15/16
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I'd definately say check the RAM, but not with a software test. Swap
the ram from the o lder macbook int o the newer one and see if the
issue persit. If it doesn't then you know there is a issue there.
the ram from the o lder macbook int o the newer one and see if the
issue persit. If it doesn't then you know there is a issue there.
Nickus de Vos
Jun 16, 2016, 9:05:22 AM6/16/16
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Hi
My first thought was also RAM especially because you say it effects your entire system and not only when using PT. Try a RAM swop out and just to eliminate all things PT, make sure all your plug ins are up to date and also delete your PT preferences.
Sent from my iPhone
My first thought was also RAM especially because you say it effects your entire system and not only when using PT. Try a RAM swop out and just to eliminate all things PT, make sure all your plug ins are up to date and also delete your PT preferences.
Sent from my iPhone
Rocco Fiorentino
Jun 26, 2016, 2:14:46 PM6/26/16
to Pro Tools Accessibility
Hi Everyone,
I wanted to post an update to this issue here. Alan got me thinking about software updates, etc. I discovered that I was running mac os 10.11.4, instead of 10.11.3 or below. This is listed on Avid's website under pro tools system requirements, but I didn't know my computer auto-updated to 10.11.4. The process of downgrading was extremely tedious and full of trial and error, but I finally got everything up and running. Things are better, but not normal. The cpu issues are more intermittent now, but still occurring, and clicks/pops are still happening as well. I can't test ram because everything is tottered to the motherboard in the newer MacBooks.
Alan Macdonald
Jun 26, 2016, 3:37:48 PM6/26/16
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I can report a similar story here. After installing the latest update for yosemite, the dreaded cpu overload message still rears its ugly head from time to time but I'm happy to say it's far less frequent and so far only on a fairly heavy session. Although not a permanent solution obviously, its certainly a welcome improvement.
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
Kevin Reeves
Jun 28, 2016, 5:50:05 AM6/28/16
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This issue lands squarely in the lap of apple.
In apples finite wisdom, they are implementing protocols into their code
that start shutting down background processes to conserve power,
irregardless of whether or not it is a laptop plugged in, a desktop, etc.
In result, apps with tons of horsepower requirements are running much
more sluggishly due to this new implementation.
This has been discussed in great detail on the Pro Tools Expert podcast.
It's effecting graphics rendering and overall performance, and these
guys aren't happy about it.
Apple is slowly bastardizing it's Pro App market with the latest
successive releases of it's OS, and it's really unfortunate.
In apples finite wisdom, they are implementing protocols into their code
that start shutting down background processes to conserve power,
irregardless of whether or not it is a laptop plugged in, a desktop, etc.
In result, apps with tons of horsepower requirements are running much
more sluggishly due to this new implementation.
This has been discussed in great detail on the Pro Tools Expert podcast.
It's effecting graphics rendering and overall performance, and these
guys aren't happy about it.
Apple is slowly bastardizing it's Pro App market with the latest
successive releases of it's OS, and it's really unfortunate.
Rocco Fiorentino
Jun 28, 2016, 3:09:46 PM6/28/16
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This statement couldn’t be more accurate. I proved it with an update to a beta of OS 10.12 on my 2012 MacBook Pro. I just created another thread on this. It amazes me that it’s taken this long for Apple to get their act together when building an OS.
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