How to jump in and out of different staircase loops?

[richf]

Is it possible to present 3 staircases during the same experiment where the selection is random, i.e. if i have three different staircases at 3 points in a temporal interval (early, middle and late), then i want to begin a trial with one particular staircase (e.g. middle), then after the first response, leap into another staircase (e.g.early), then another etc. So instead of going through each staircase in turn, i would like to randomly dip in and out of three independent stairs.

I've had a look through old posts and through python forums and such a thing seems impossible. At the simplest level i want to know how i can iterate through 3 different 'for' loops by randomly leaping through each 'for' loop until the cycle is over.

Can anyone help?

Cheers

Richard

[Van Atta, Alexander B CTR USAF AFMC USAFSAM/FECO]

Richard,

I would think that it's possible. I just started to looking in to using
psychopy as the framework to re-implement some tests I currently have in
VB.Net and need this same functionality. I have a LMS cone contrast
threshold test that uses three Quest methods to converge to the
threshold for each of the LMS cones. I will let you know when I get it
working in psychopy.

Alexander B. Van Atta
USAFSAM/FECO
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[Jonathan Peirce]

There's a class called MultiStairHandler for running independent
interleaved staircases.
http://www.psychopy.org/api/data.html#multistairhandler

Jon

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[Richard fereday]

Thanks for replies. Will the multistairhandler return a different values for each staircase then? (i assume it would). Also, the main thing i wish to vary is the time when each staircase is presented. So, for example, 2 frames after a keypress will be one staircase, then the second will be 5 frames after a button press etc. So the parameters are the same for each staircase, only the onset time will change (one staircase for key press + 2frames, another for keypress + 5frames , and another for keypress + 10 frames). 

Is this possible with the multistairhandler?

Cheers

Richard

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Jonathan Peirce <jonatha...@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

There's a class called MultiStairHandler for running independent interleaved staircases.
http://www.psychopy.org/api/data.html#multistairhandler

Jon

On 05/04/2013 16:10, richf wrote:

Is it possible to present 3 staircases during the same experiment where the selection is random, i.e. if i have three different staircases at 3 points in a temporal interval (early, middle and late), then i want to begin a trial with one particular staircase (e.g. middle), then after the first response, leap into another staircase (e.g.early), then another etc. So instead of going through each staircase in turn, i would like to randomly dip in and out of three independent stairs.

I've had a look through old posts and through python forums and such a thing seems impossible. At the simplest level i want to know how i can iterate through 3 different 'for' loops by randomly leaping through each 'for' loop until the cycle is over.

Can anyone help?

Cheers

Richard
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[Jan]

Without using the multistairhandler, I use two interleaved staircases , like so:

    while len(staircaseList) > 0:
        shuffle(staircaseList)
        currentStaircase = staircase_list.pop()
        try:
            currentLevel=currentStaircase.next()
        except StopIteration:
            print "finished staircase"
        else:
            /do stuff/
            ## re-append staircase back to list
            staircaseList.append(currentStaircase)

So you keep randomly taking out a staircase from the list and putting it back, except you don't put them back if they're finished (and calling next() gives you a StopIteration exception). There's no particular reason I use pop() and append() instead of accessing the particular staircase by index.

On Friday, April 5, 2013 1:39:05 PM UTC-4, richf wrote:

Thanks for replies. Will the multistairhandler return a different values for each staircase then? (i assume it would). Also, the main thing i wish to vary is the time when each staircase is presented. So, for example, 2 frames after a keypress will be one staircase, then the second will be 5 frames after a button press etc. So the parameters are the same for each staircase, only the onset time will change (one staircase for key press + 2frames, another for keypress + 5frames , and another for keypress + 10 frames). 

Is this possible with the multistairhandler?

Cheers

Richard

On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Jonathan Peirce <jonatha...@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

There's a class called MultiStairHandler for running independent interleaved staircases.
http://www.psychopy.org/api/data.html#multistairhandler

Jon

On 05/04/2013 16:10, richf wrote:

Is it possible to present 3 staircases during the same experiment where the selection is random, i.e. if i have three different staircases at 3 points in a temporal interval (early, middle and late), then i want to begin a trial with one particular staircase (e.g. middle), then after the first response, leap into another staircase (e.g.early), then another etc. So instead of going through each staircase in turn, i would like to randomly dip in and out of three independent stairs.

I've had a look through old posts and through python forums and such a thing seems impossible. At the simplest level i want to know how i can iterate through 3 different 'for' loops by randomly leaping through each 'for' loop until the cycle is over.

Can anyone help?

Cheers

Richard
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[ShoinExp]

Hi,
    I don't suppose anyone has an example multistairhandler experiment (preferably in Builder) that they'd be willing to share?  I've got an upcoming experiment that will need interleaved staircases and I'm a bit vague on how that would work.  I always find that tinkering with an existing example is the best way to learn.
    Thanks,
    Mark

[Richard fereday]

Jan,

Many thanks for your reply. Your code worked fine. It is so simple yet effective too! I very much appreciate you help, especially considering you are the ONLY person to reply.

Mark - afraid i did not use the MultiStairHandler so am unable to help. I think you're best off posting a new topic, as very few (if any) people will contribute to this post.

Best of luck

Richard.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/psychopy-users/-/ciuraLxGDHgJ.

[Jonathan Peirce]

Richard,

You seem upset about the lack of support you've received? Do bear in mind that we're all quite busy people, writing this code, providing it free, wiring documentation and writing replies to your questions for nothing. None of us get paid for it, nor promoted for it. We do it out of good will and sometimes a question doesn't get answered because nobody had time at the moment you asked the question.

best wishes,
Jon

[Michael MacAskill]

On 19 Apr, 2013, at 00:59, Jonathan Peirce <jonatha...@nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> You seem upset about the lack of support you've received? Do bear in mind that we're all quite busy people, writing this code, providing it free, wiring documentation and writing replies to your questions for nothing.

Two of those replies (from Alexander Van Atta and Jon Peirce) came within 2 hours of the original post from Richard on April 6th. Then Jan followed up to a further question from Richard, evidently with some consideration and regard as it came some days later, with a detailed answer that seemed to solve the problem. This prompted Mark to post a related request of his own, for an example multistairhandler experiment (sorry, I can't help with that myself, Mark).

This seems like a collaborative and well-working online community to me. As Jon notes, this is all voluntary, which will be improved by further contributions rather than criticism.

Welcome aboard Richard, I sincerely hope you'll soon be able to improve our collective responsiveness by contributing answers in turn, as you develop your own particular area of expertise with the software.

Regards,

Mike

[Richard fereday]

Jon and Mike,

Many thanks for your replies. I do sincerely appreciate all replies, so please don't mistake my comments as feelings of anger or the like. It can be frustrating due to my inexperience - i still regard myself as a beginner so even obvious solutions often elude me. However, i have learned a great deal since September and this is largely due to responses on this forum. I am particularly grateful for all your posts on flicker fusion/LED's/monitor refresh rates - you have both helped very much in this area. If i come across areas that i may assist with then i will naturally respond. I hope i have learned enough to be able to do this soon.

Many thanks for support

Richard

[ShoinExp]

Hi all,
    I have got my staircases working, mostly, in Builder (using the staircase demo that comes with Psychopy).  I nested one "staircase" loop inside one "interleaved staircase" loop.  I set all of the parameters in a .xlsx spreadsheet and set all the parameters in the inner "staircase" loop to variables specified in that spreadsheet.  Everything seems to be working fine.  I have 2 staircases that seem to be following the right number of reversals.... but they are not being interleaved, they are done sequentially.  I tried including a column in the spreadsheet for "method" and have it evaluate to random, but that didn't help.
      Any thoughts?
      Sorry for my continuing string of newbie questions,
      Thanks,
      Mark

[Jonathan Peirce]

If you put a loop around another loop they don't get interleaved. The inner loop gets run to completion for each repeat of the outer loop. If you want interleaved staircases then just use one (interleaved-staircase) loop.

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[Justyna Hobot]

Hi, I have 2 stimuli that are presented in random order and I use a simple staircase, created by inserting a loop (loopType=staircase, N up=1, N down=3,step sizes=[0.1,0.1,0.05,0.05,0.025], start value=0.075). I've noticed that I get different accuracy levels for different stimuli. I would like use the same staircase but separately for each of 2 stimuli. Do you have any suggestions how to code it?

[jonathan.peirce from smtp.nottingham]

Are you sure you want to use the same staircase but for two stimuli? Not multiple interleaved staircases? Are you trying to measure the (different) thresholds to each stimulus?

Jon

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