Open System - What a Joke!
InterRamp Support
You can you any winsock that you wish. However we
only support certified software, we will do our best to
give you the appropiate information to configure the software
of your choice. But we do not know the exact configurations
of unsupported software.
As for ISDN TA compatiblity, again we only support
those that we know work with InterRamp and have been tested
to work with our software packages. If you have another TA
that you wish to use, and can make it work that is fine.
Mike
InterRamp Support
In article <3ol64i$e...@usenet.interramp.com>, pp00...@interramp.com (Jerry Kenney) says:
>
>
>No doubt all interramp subscribers received this Greetings from Alyson
>Willsie, InterRamp Support Manager, and Christopher Callender, InterRamp
>Product Manager:
>
>>Just a quick note this week to remind all of you that one
>>of the greatest features of the InterRamp service is that
>>it offers full Internet access.
>
>They go on to tell us that we can run public domain software with our
>InterRamp account. "The key to using other software is that it must
>either be Winsock compatible," they go on to say, and "Once your connection
>to PSInet is established, you can start up any Internet applications that you
>desire."
>
>And there's the rub. It's not just any old winsock -- like fast, reliable
>Trumpet 2.0b; it needs to be Chameleon winsock. And as far as ISDN
>compatibility goes, how many terminal adapters are interramp compliant?
>Ooohh, maybe two, maybe one.
>
>Interramp is not an open system, because it limits the winsock you can use to
>connect. The Internet IS an open system, so once you are connected to the
>'net via Interramp or any other ISP, you're as free as the breeze.
>
>So let's start hearing a little straight talk, Interramp support. Perhaps
>you're too close to the nation's capital to realize that once you move about
>50 miles outside the beltway, there's a nation of thinking human beings ready
>to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but really tired of the SOS.
>
>--
> **| From the Write Arm of Jerry Kenney |**
> **| (jke...@innet.com) or (jke...@innet.com) |**
> **|"http://turnpike.net/emporium/J/jkenney/index.htm"|**
> **| Data is not information until |**
> **| you learn how to use it. |**
>
Jerry Kenney
Rob Ryan
> And there's the rub. It's not just any old winsock -- like fast,
Trumpet 2.0b works fine. Sure, they can't reasonably support it as well
as Chameleon, but it works.
I presume the "open" comment was an effort to distinguish it from less
open systems, such as Pipeline. In comparison, Interramp is terribly
open. I don't use any of the original software that came with my
Interramp account. So while the ISDN support might be a point of
contention (incidentally, how many other national Internet providers
provide ISDN support?), it is relatively open.
-- Rob
Jerry Kenney
In article <3om9c0$m...@usenet.interramp.com>, sup...@interramp.com says...
>
>Hello,
>
> You can you any winsock that you wish. However we
But you CANNOT USE ANY WINSOCK. Interramp disconnects Trumpet. When asked
about it, I was told it was not certified. You can only use what works. And
with Interramp, what works is what is certified. As Henry Ford used to say,
"Any color as long as it's black." Interramp says "any" winsock as long as
it's Chameleon.
Tell me what other winsocks have been used successfully with Interramp. Show
me that others connect regularly. Then I will apologize. But don't tell me I
can use any winsock if any winsock will not connect.
Martin L. Schoffstall
many winsock's work with InterRamp, specifically winsock's tied to
interoperable PPP's.
We have dozen's of implementations working with InterRamp
Our position is that the support group is focusing its support on a few
commercially provided and certified implementations which 90%+ of our
customers use, and which they get various kinds of support from the software
developers.
No one is stopping you or anyone else using something else. That is a
function of an open system, interoperability.
Marty
In article <3ol64i$e...@usenet.interramp.com>, pp00...@interramp.com (Jerry
Kenney) writes:
> From: pp00...@interramp.com (Jerry Kenney)
> Newsgroups: alt.online-service.interramp,psi.interramp Subject:
> Open System - What a Joke!
> Date: 8 May 1995 13:25:37 GMT
> Organization: Jerry Kenney & Associates
>
>
> No doubt all interramp subscribers received this Greetings from
> Alyson Willsie, InterRamp Support Manager, and Christopher
> Callender, InterRamp Product Manager:
>
> >Just a quick note this week to remind all of you that one of the
> >greatest features of the InterRamp service is that it offers
> >full Internet access.
>
> They go on to tell us that we can run public domain software with
> our InterRamp account. "The key to using other software is that it
> must either be Winsock compatible," they go on to say, and "Once
> your connection to PSInet is established, you can start up any
> Internet applications that you desire."
>
> And there's the rub. It's not just any old winsock -- like fast,
> reliable Trumpet 2.0b; it needs to be Chameleon winsock. And as far
> as ISDN compatibility goes, how many terminal adapters are
> interramp compliant?
> Ooohh, maybe two, maybe one.
>
> Interramp is not an open system, because it limits the winsock you can
> use to connect. The Internet IS an open system, so once you are
> connected to the 'net via Interramp or any other ISP, you're as free
> as the breeze.
>
> So let's start hearing a little straight talk, Interramp support.
> Perhaps you're too close to the nation's capital to realize that once
> you move about 50 miles outside the beltway, there's a nation of
> thinking human beings ready to give anyone the benefit of the doubt
> but really tired of the SOS.
>
> --
> **| From the Write Arm of Jerry
> Kenney |** **| (jke...@innet.com) or (jkenney@
> innet.com) |** **|"http://turnpike.net/emporium/J/
Gordon Meltzer
Rob Ryan <rr...@interramp.com> wrote:
.. So while the ISDN support might be a point of
>contention (incidentally, how many other national Internet providers
>provide ISDN support?), it is relatively open.
>
>-- Rob
>
Rob: What's wrong with their ISDN support besides the fact that they won't turn on MPP??
Gordon
Manuel D. Garcia
>And there's the rub. It's not just any old winsock -- like fast, reliable
>Trumpet 2.0b; it needs to be Chameleon winsock.
No it does not. I regularly use both the Chameleon and the Win95 tcp-ip
stacks. No problems at all.
>Interramp is not an open system, because it limits the winsock you can use to
>connect. The Internet IS an open system, so once you are connected to the
>'net via Interramp or any other ISP, you're as free as the breeze.
Interramp does not limit the type or brand of winsock one uses. They support
various software and hardware that has been tested to work satisfactoraly with
their equipment. But anyone can use anything to connect to the service.
Whether or not they can make it work with their own hardware is another story.
But I have read of individuals succesfully using the Trumpet, Spry, FTP
Software, OS2 Warp, NT built in winsocks... and even individuals running
various flavors of UN*X !!
In fact, all that you need is hardware/software that can do PPP (synch PPP if
using ISDN).
>So let's start hearing a little straight talk, Interramp support. Perhaps
>you're too close to the nation's capital to realize that once you move about
>50 miles outside the beltway, there's a nation of thinking human beings ready
>to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but really tired of the SOS.
Yet another angry white young man in its natural state...
I would suggest that you have a nice glass of milk and cookies before you
start spouting off on subjects which you have painfully demonstrated a limited
knowledge of. After all, there is a nation of thinking human beings out there
you would like to join one of these days.
*Apology for the flame*.. it was too easy to pass up.. ;-)
--
Manuel D. Garcia
pp00...@interramp.com
Rob Ryan
Gordon Meltzer <gmel...@interramp.com> wrote:
>Rob: What's wrong with their ISDN support besides the fact that they won't turn on MPP??
As far as I know, nothing. To be more accurate, I have nothing insightful
to say about Interramp's ISDN support because I have no experience with
it. I was merely recognizing that the original post had two complaints,
openness and ISDN support. I think the complaint about the former is
ill conceived and I have nothing to say about the latter.
-- Rob
David K. English MD
In article <950509121...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
>>
> many winsock's work with InterRamp, specifically winsock's tied to
> interoperable PPP's.
>
> We have dozen's of implementations working with InterRamp
>
You might have dozens of software implementations working, but you still have
certified only the same two pieces of ISDN equipment that were listed in
September 1994. Now maybe you have sweetheart deals with those particular
equipment vendors, and don't plan to certify any other equipment. But I would
like to know that.
Back about October 1994, I suggested that if you really were testing ISDN
equipment, there must be a list of equipment known NOT to work with Interramp
(since the list of equipment that did work never increased!). I suggested you
post THAT list, so we would know what did not work, and so we could see that
testing really was occurring. But apparently my suggestion fell on deaf
corporate ears.
So, are you or are you NOT testing any additional ISDN equipment?
Alan Watts
In article <950509121...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
sch...@us.psi.com says...
>
>
>many winsock's work with InterRamp, specifically winsock's tied to
>interoperable PPP's.
>
>We have dozen's of implementations working with InterRamp
>
>commercially provided and certified implementations which 90%+ of our
>customers use, and which they get various kinds of support from the
software
>developers.
>
>No one is stopping you or anyone else using something else. That is a
>function of an open system, interoperability.
>
>Marty
>
most use Netscape, Eudora & WinVN.
Alan
Seth M. Dworken
Actually, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. There is no doubt
that the netmismanage crap is one of the worst pieces of garbage I've
ever seen. But there are other tcp/ip stacks that are winsock compliant.
You mentioned Trumpet, and I've heard that the newer versions that
support ppp authentication do work with interramp.
I'm using FTP Softwares's OnNet PC/TCP right now, and it is a dream.
Works great, and so far I haven't run into any problems with any
application with it.
-Seth
=====
In article <3ol64i$e...@usenet.interramp.com>, pp00...@interramp.com
says...
>
>
>No doubt all interramp subscribers received this Greetings from Alyson
>Willsie, InterRamp Support Manager, and Christopher Callender, InterRamp
>Product Manager:
>
>>Just a quick note this week to remind all of you that one
>>of the greatest features of the InterRamp service is that
>>it offers full Internet access.
>
>They go on to tell us that we can run public domain software with our
>InterRamp account. "The key to using other software is that it must
>either be Winsock compatible," they go on to say, and "Once your
connection
>to PSInet is established, you can start up any Internet applications
that you
>desire."
>
>And there's the rub. It's not just any old winsock -- like fast,
reliable
>Trumpet 2.0b; it needs to be Chameleon winsock. And as far as ISDN
>compatibility goes, how many terminal adapters are interramp compliant?
>Ooohh, maybe two, maybe one.
>
>Interramp is not an open system, because it limits the winsock you can
use to
>connect. The Internet IS an open system, so once you are connected to
the
>'net via Interramp or any other ISP, you're as free as the breeze.
>
>So let's start hearing a little straight talk, Interramp support.
Perhaps
>you're too close to the nation's capital to realize that once you move
about
>50 miles outside the beltway, there's a nation of thinking human beings
ready
>to give anyone the benefit of the doubt but really tired of the SOS.
>
>--
> **| From the Write Arm of Jerry Kenney |**
> **| (jke...@innet.com) or (jke...@innet.com) |**
> **|"http://turnpike.net/emporium/J/jkenney/index.htm"|**
Martin L. Schoffstall
> 90%+ of your customers may use the Chameleon TCP/IP stack, but I bet
> most use Netscape, Eudora & WinVN.
>
> Alan
>
Which is great and further proof that it is an Open System.
Marty
Martin L. Schoffstall
we have no particular sweet heart deals
we have a certification process with lots of failures of vendors
and some vendors who don't want to be certified, maybe you should contact
those vendors and ask why they don't want to be....
marty
In article <NEWTNews.7280.80...@home.interramp.com>, "David K.
English MD" <pp00...@interramp.com> writes:
> From: "David K. English MD" <pp00...@interramp.com>
> Newsgroups: psi.interramp,alt.online-service.interramp Subject: Re:
> Open System - What a Joke!
> Date: Tue, 09 May 95 22:21:46 PDT
> Organization: PSI Public Usenet Link
>
>
> In article <950509121...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
> <sch...@us.psi.com> writes:
> >>
> > many winsock's work with InterRamp, specifically winsock's tied
> > to interoperable PPP's.
> >
> > We have dozen's of implementations working with InterRamp
> >
>
Seth M. Dworken
implementation going with no problems. I got email from him yesterday
from his interramp account, send from his unix system.
And like I said, I'm using FTP Software's stack right now.
Netmismanage==crap, no argument.
Tim Fletcher
I have been using FTP software's Explore OnNet and have had no problems
setting it up or using it. In fact they have a dialer script specifically
for PSI Interramp that you can get from their ftp site.
In article <3oma3o$n...@usenet.interramp.com>, pp00...@interramp.com says...
>
>
>In article <3om9c0$m...@usenet.interramp.com>, sup...@interramp.com says...
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>> You can you any winsock that you wish. However we
>>only support certified software ...
>
>But you CANNOT USE ANY WINSOCK. Interramp disconnects Trumpet. When asked
>about it, I was told it was not certified. You can only use what works. And
>with Interramp, what works is what is certified. As Henry Ford used to say,
>"Any color as long as it's black." Interramp says "any" winsock as long as
>it's Chameleon.
>
>Tell me what other winsocks have been used successfully with Interramp.
Show
>me that others connect regularly. Then I will apologize. But don't tell me
I
>can use any winsock if any winsock will not connect.
>
>--
> **| From the Write Arm of Jerry Kenney |**
> **| (jke...@innet.com) or (jke...@innet.com) |**
> **|"http://turnpike.net/emporium/J/jkenney/index.htm"|**
> **| Data is not information until |**
> **| you learn how to use it. |**
>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Experience teaches you to recognize | ti...@astea.com
a mistake when you've made it again | flet...@interramp.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
David K. English MD
Of course, they still aren't identified in your reply. I would be happy to
harass them, if I knew who they are!
In article <950511162...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
Scott
And you are right, I use Netscape, Eudora, WinVN
In article <950511162...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
sch...@us.psi.com says...
Martin L. Schoffstall
PSI's position is that we don't discuss ongoing certification situations with
the general public. Vendors generally don't like that.
Marty
>
>
> Of course, they still aren't identified in your reply. I would be happy
> to harass them, if I knew who they are!
>
> In article <950511162...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
Jerry Kenney
In article <950520111...@schoff280c.sterling.psi.com>,
sch...@us.psi.com says...
>PSI's position is that we don't discuss ongoing certification situations
>with the general public. Vendors generally don't like that.
>
>Marty
This was in response to:
>> Of course, they still aren't identified in your reply. I would be happy
>> to harass them, if I knew who they are!
Which had followed this "challenge" by Marty:
>> > we have a certification process with lots of failures of vendors
>> > and some vendors who don't want to be certified, maybe you
>> > should contact those vendors and ask why they don't want to be....
Now, I will get ISDN one of these days, but the problem I face is illustrated
by this ongoing weasling by PSI and it seems like all vendors. Neither the
LECs, nor the TA hardware vendors, nor the software vendors, nor the ISPs
(like Interramp) dare come out and tell you what you can expect from a
specific set up. Why is that? Do the lawyers have you by the short ones?
The much vaunted 128 kbs connection promised more than a year ago is still
vaporware. The one or two (how many TAs certified, Marty? And what are they?)
official TAs can't get the job done. So why are they certified in the first
place. There are more expensive TAs out there ... will they do the job?
Or do we need to get an ISDN phone set and connect it to the PC?
Is there a set of ISDN connection/protocol specifications published by PSI to
tell us how to try to get connected on our own?
Has anyone with any TA or even ISDN terminal acheived a 2B bundled connection
with PSI? Is it a used terminal hardware problem, a software problem, or a
PSI problem?
Come on, step out from behind the smoke and mirrors and give us some straight
information ... or tell us who we can ask if you are unwilling.
--
**| the Write Arm of Jerry Kenney |**
**| (jke...@innet.com) or (pp00...@interramp.com) |**
**| http://emporium.turnpike.net/J/jkenney/index.htm |**
**| Data is information when you learn how to use it. |**