Yunzhi and Lingzhi some thoughts.

[John Flamboris]

prostatic-dise...@googlegroups.com

 

      Below are some links to the Wikipedia sites for Lingzhi, Yunzhi and Medicinal Mushrooms. I think they give some good general information. I was initially having a problem distinguishing Lingzhi from Yunzhi as I have found that several of the sites that purport to sell supplements of one or the other don't know the difference themselves. Which in a way tells you something about them and potentially, their products. I even had a bit of difficulty with various Chinese medicine practitioners in the local area who themselves were unable to make the distinction. Also, all of the Chinese stores and medical shops in my area have an abundant supply and variety of Lingzhi (Reshi) mushroom. Which has a similar shape and woody texture  but looks quite different than Yunzhi as most Lingzhi's are solid colours from deep purple, to deep red, to brownish. The brownish coloured variety is the cheapest and appears to be the most abundant. The red costs more and the purple costs the most. But i'm skeptical as to whether the red and purple variety have more health effects or if they are just more rare in nature. The Yunzhi in all of the photos I have seen appear a lot more colourfull.

 

           Anyway, I must have spent at least a half hour with each practitioner , who themselves were from China and not born here , who did not know what Yunzhi was or how it might differ from Lingzhi, of which they were all quite familiar. I intend to keep on looking. I of course could purchase Yunzhi from a  number of internet sites in capsules but it does disturb me that unlike Lingzhi it does not appear to be available  in whole form and sold over the counter. My thinking is that if I cannot find it in the form of a mushroom, then perhaps what is in those capsules is not what is being advertised. Also, so many of the sites have referred to Lingzhi as Coriolus Versicolor (which is actually the latin name for Yunzhi and not Lingzhi) , that i'm of the mind that they are either confused themselves or trying to confuse me. In either case, it leads me to believe that just about anything could be in those capsules. At least with Lingzhi i.e. Reshi, I can actually buy the whole woody mushrooms and know what I am purchasing. Which brings us of course to the whole issue of purchasing capsules and not really knowing , or trusting, what the hell is even in them.

 

       Because Lingzhi and Yunzhi looked so much alike in terms of size, shape and the fact that they were woody and grew out of tree stumps, I assumed that they may be quite similar. But from what is available on Wikipedia, they appear to have very distinctive and different qualities from one another.  I guess I will just have to do more research. I'm certain that someone out there is selling Yunzhi in it's intact whole form. But where?  John

 

Ling zhi Reishi  Ganoderma lucidum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingzhi_mushroom

Yun zhi Turkey Tail Trametes Versicolor a.k.a. the "yun-zhi"  formerly a.k.a. Coriolus Versicolor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trametes_versicolor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicinal_mushrooms

Trametes versicolor (turkey tail, kawaratake, yun-zhi, coriolus versicolor)

Trametes versicolor is a very common, globally distributed fungus, known for aggressive growth patterns. Two extracts, polysaccharide-K (PSK) and polysaccharide peptide (PSP), are made from Trametes versicolor and purified through fermentation methods.

    "PSK was first isolated in Japan in the late 1960s while PSP was isolated about 1983 in China. Each compound has shown remarkable anticancer properties with few side effects. Remarkably by 1987 PSK accounted for more than 25% of total national expenditure for anticancer agents in Japan."[243]

An experiment with mice published in 2011, showed PSP was 100% effective in blocking prostate tumor formation via inhibition of prostate cancer stem cells.[244]

 

NOTE: go to the end of this message and I have copied the link and the abstract referred to above , John  http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0019804
=======================

Ganoderma lucidum (Língzhī, reishi, mannentake)

Ganoderma lucidum is the best known medicinal mushroom in folk medicine. Ganoderma teas are described in Shennong Ben Cao Jing and Bencao Gangmu. The Ganoderma mushroom is occasionally seen in Chinese artwork.[201]

Research demonstrated Ganoderma may have anticancer[202][203] and immune system enhancing properties.[204][205] Animal studies have noted Ganoderma may protect the liver[206][207] and protect against radiation.[208] A randomized clinical study noted Ganoderma improved urinary tract symptoms in men.[209] Research has shown that Ganoderma contains compounds that may act as ACE inhibitors,[210] inihibit blood platelets,[211] and fibrosis.[212] According to Memorial Sloan-Kettering, "in clinical studies, Ganoderma lucidum increased plasma antioxidant capacity and enhanced immune responses in advance-stage cancer patients."[213]

====================
Vitamin D and antioxidants

Mushrooms that contain ergosterol, and get exposed to UV light, generate significant amounts of vitamin D2.[131][132][133] Agaricus bisporus (portobello) and Lentinula edodes (shiitake) contain high levels of vitamin D2 after UV light exposure.[134][135][136]

Mushrooms contain various antioxidant compounds.[137] Ergothioneine is present in Flammulina velutipes (enokitake)[138] and Agaricus bisporus (portobello).[139] Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is present in Agaricus bisporus and Agaricus subrufescens (agaricus blazei).[91][140]

http://www.supremehealthfoods.com/

 

 

Note: if you want to read more than the abstract, click on the link for the full study

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0019804

Abstract Top

Recent evidence suggested that prostate cancer stem/progenitor cells (CSC) are responsible for cancer initiation as well as disease progression. Unfortunately, conventional therapies are only effective in targeting the more differentiated cancer cells and spare the CSCs. Here, we report that PSP, an active component extracted from the mushroom Turkey tail (also known as Coriolus versicolor), is effective in targeting prostate CSCs. We found that treatment of the prostate cancer cell line PC-3 with PSP led to the down-regulation of CSC markers (CD133 and CD44) in a time and dose-dependent manner. Meanwhile, PSP treatment not only suppressed the ability of PC-3 cells to form prostaspheres under non-adherent culture conditions, but also inhibited their tumorigenicity in vivo, further proving that PSP can suppress prostate CSC properties. To investigate if the anti-CSC effect of PSP may lead to prostate cancer chemoprevention, transgenic mice (TgMAP) that spontaneously develop prostate tumors were orally fed with PSP for 20 weeks. Whereas 100% of the mice that fed with water only developed prostate tumors at the end of experiment, no tumors could be found in any of the mice fed with PSP, suggesting that PSP treatment can completely inhibit prostate tumor formation. Our results not only demonstrated the intriguing anti-CSC effect of PSP, but also revealed, for the first time, the surprising chemopreventive property of oral PSP consumption against prostate cancer.

[Georgia Sam]

Very quickly, this is my understanding of the background. Here is a
good starting point.

http://www.taoofherbs.com/articles/102/CoriolusVersicolor.htm

What I do know is that the product I get regularly from MRL is the
real-deal. I have taken it for about ten years on-and-off correponding
with my times on LHRH-a. I cannot say the same for other products I
have tried because there is a lack of consistency in time.

The Japanese first isolated the active agent in Coriolus Versicolor
using a hot water technique, calling it "polysaccharide krestin"
(PSK). It has been used in Japan for immune support since the 1980's.

PSK is a hot water extract said to break down the cellular wall of the
fungus and make the active agent more bioavailable than in the whole
mature fruiting body.

The Chinese caught on a decade or so later with a different extraction
technique and a different name "polysaccharide peptide" (PSP).

PSP is the young fruiting body and mycelium whole biomass. Because
the fungus has not formed a hard structure, the active agent is
believed to be more bioavailable than in the whole mature fruiting
body.

The reason your TCM doctors are confused is that both PSK and PSP are
modern derivatives of a herb that would be used in traditional recipes
just a few grams at a time - so they would not have a great stock of
the stuff to sell you as a 'simple'. [ Which incidentally, you would
have to boil for I don't know long to get anything out of. ]

That's it in a nutshell.

Sam.

--

Free PDF download [0]; for background see [1]; and for an update on
current thinking see [2]:

http://poetryfromtheprostrateyears.com/ISBN.9780954993511/

0. ProstateCancer.pdf
1. Guide.html
2. calreticulin.connection.html

'Scuse the typos - they still creep in here and there when I am in a rush !!

[Ann]

Hi Sam, I've ben following the discussion on coriolus with much interest and am seriously considering buying some for John from MRL. As you may remember, he took it for awhile way back in 2004 and early 2005 before starting on Prostasol.

It is hard to say what role it was playing in PSA progression at that time. PSA continued to go up on a variety of supplements.

I am wondering why you only take Coriolus when on LHRL-a? Why not in the time while off it? 

John is still on Quercetin + (Prostasol) but I'd love for him to be able to get off it. Still looking for the silver bullets. Maybe Coriolus is one! 

Ann

[Randy Mitchell]

The substrate upon which the mushroom is grown may influence its properties. Laetiporus sulphureus for example, popularly known as "Chicken of the Woods" is a decarbonizing woody polypore which, like Turkey Tail, grows on wood. Sauteed, it has the flavor and texture of breast of chicken. Problem: it induces vomiting and GI symptoms in about 10% of the population.

It was once believed that 10% of the population is allergic to Chicken of the Woods. But it turns out that the decider is the wood upon which the fungus grows, and in fact there are five sub-species.

http://leslieland.com/2009/09/hunting-laetiporus-sulphureus-the-sulfur-shelf-or-chicken-mushroom/

In my neck of the woods, laetiporus growing on oak is tastier and less likely to provoke gastric distress than the more common form found growing on eucalyptus.

As to Turkey Tail, is has a broad seasonal range and appears to grow on darn near everything. Commercial matsutake growers complain that Turkey Tail is invasive, ruining their carefully prepared oak growing logs.

So... the above is just a long-winded agreement with John — we don't know what's in the capsules and even if we did, we don't know which wood the fungus was growing on, and what difference that might make. It seems that Sam has discovered a reliable source. Following Sams recommendation makes more sense to me than trying to sort out the many variables.

Randy

[John Flamboris]

    Randy, I was unaware of this mushroom until you mentioned it and as interesting as it was in reading about it, and knowing that it is not only safe to eat, but very tasty as well, there was little if any citation as to any medicinal properties it may have. I do understand of course that this is ''Wikipedia'', and not the most definitive or reliable source about. Yet, if you look at the Wikipedia entries of Lingzhi and Yunzhi the  medicinal benefits are prominantly noted. I personally eat all sorts of mushrooms that I buy at Chinese markets and will now look for the  Chicken of the wood Laetiporus sulphureus mainly because I want something good to eat and also because I believe that there are perhaps many medicinal effects of mushrooms that  we simply are not yet aware. So, thanks for turning me on to this particular species

         The issue of what substrate they are grown to me is of paramount importance. Just as it is for good Kentucky bourbon to be aged in oak barrels. It's often said that onions, garlic and other medicinal plants have various qualities and compounds within them but the writers  always ignore and make no reference to where these qualities, compounds and minerals are derived. If they do not exist in the soil in which they are grown, then they obviously cannot be in the plants that are being touted as having them. Something which the food industry I believe not only intentionally ignores but goes to great lengths to misdirect the public from. If you live in an area where the soil is devoid of selenium then you can be assured that any garlic grown in that soil will not contain any selenium. It would be as if people began to believe that all pink, blue or purple capsules were identical and possessed all of the same benefits and qualities just because they were packaged in identical capsule material of same colour, shape and size.

        Do you know of any reliable vendors of the Turkey Tail Mushroom who would sell it in his whole form and not ground up in packaged capsules? That would be of great interest to me.

John .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetiporus_sulphureus

Mushroom Chicken of the wood Laetiporus sulphureus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetiporus_sulphureus

Guinness world recordA specimen weighing 100 pounds was found in the New Forest, Hampshire, United Kingdom on October 15, 1990.[6]

Edibility
Laetiporus sulphureus prepared dishBecause of the taste, people have called the mushroom chicken polypore and chicken-of-the-woods. Many people think that the mushroom tastes like crab or lobster. The authors of Mushrooms in Color said that the mushroom tastes good sauteed in butter or prepared in a cream sauce served over toast or rice.[7] It is highly regarded in Germany and North America.[8] The mushroom is a good substitute for chicken.

Young specimens are edible if a large, clear watery liquid comes out of it.[4] The mushroom should not be eaten raw.[1] Deer like to eat the mushroom.[9


CultivationThe most dependable and rapid production of this mushroom is cultivation of it indoors. The mushroom does not require the heat and water that gilled mushrooms do. The mushroom is sensitive to carbon dioxide levels and light condition. Many cultivators use controlled environment.[11]

An Israeli mycologist introduced Chicken of the Woods mushroom to agriculture. The scientist picked the wild mushroom in his village, positively identified the species and realized the commercial potential. After three years of research he successfully developed a cultivation protocol and a dedicated substrate for cultivation in agricultural setups. The protocol includes information about the temperature, humidity and lighting conditions required for optimal fruiting, as well as the composition of the substrate from available commercial resources. The mushroom is cultivated using the plastic bag method or in automated technique using the bottle method. The mushroom can be cultivated for the general markets, or certified organic. This is the only company in the world that cultivates this mushroom in the bag cultivation method. The researcher has also developed a Champagne glass form of the mushroom, which is not found in nature. This shape can be further exploited by gourmet chefs

[John Flamboris]

      The question Sam is how do you know it's the real deal? I don't know if there is a lab that is even capable of testing such a product. For what reason would someone have set it up and what would it cost to send a sample to that lave, if it did exist, and what exactly would you be asking them to test ? I still think it all comes down to a matter of trust and a belief that they are doing the right thing and you are getting what you are paying for and not something else.

 

      . I felt this way too about a lot of other products that I have purchased over the years and  recall one particular incident about 7 years back when Consumer Labs actually went out and purchased various brands of SAM-E right off the shelves and from online vendors. What they found was  that ''Natures Made'', a well known and store bought retail  brand that you can buy just about anywhere in the U.S. had the most of the listed ingredients that they could measure, 87pct. The '''Life Extension'' brand, which has always been touted as the best of the best and is reflected in it's price was found to have the least amount of the stated ingredients of all other brands. Almost nothing in fact. Life extension did not try and argue or challenge the results but instead came up with some lame excuse as to what happened. They claimed that they had themselves tested the bulk ingredients before they were made into capsules to ensure their purity. Which implied that the manufacturer , whomever that may have been because they never responded to Life Extensions charge, robbed them. Which is complete bunk in my opinion because that is the exact opposite of how any rational person would go about testing any product. What you do is you make your order, and when the packaged finished product arrives, you at random pull out a number of boxes and take some product out of each one  and use (sacrafice) one or two new boxes to make up the diference in the boxes you removed product from . Then you lab test the capsules/pills for their purity. In other words, Life Extension provided a stupid lie to cover up the fact that a) at best they were just incompentent and as gullible as their customers and didn't test anything. Or b) they were simply lying and figured that the buyers would not know the difference. In either case, the customer lost.

 

       I guess I would do the same as I do with the Lingzhi (Reshi) mushrooms that I already buy in chinese markets and except for their colour look pretty much the same. Most of the time the mushrooms, which are as woody as the Yunzhi , are already sliced into fine strips like strips of bacon. What everyone does is they boil them in soups or water that will be poured into a cup of tea. Yes, the question of whether or not you are getting the full benefit is of course there if there is some chemical process that would otherwise isolate the active ingredient. The problem I have is I simply do not trust anyone to actually do that for me and then package the product.

 

           The supplement business is entirely based on trust here in the U.S. because of a Catch 22 prior to the dietary supplement act going into effect back in 1996. Prior to that date the FDA did in fact regulate the vitamin/herb supplement industry and their way of doing so was simply to either make everything illegal or to require supplement manufacturers to do hundreds of millions of dollars of research to prove each and every claim or reason why they would put something on the market. It really was an FDA scam because such claims could not be emprically proven and furthermore that no one had the money to conduct such studies. The FDA was, is and always has been partial and biased towards the Pharma industry. In fact, the Pharma industry itself makes and sells billions of dollars in Vitamins and Minerals annually and are prescribed by doctors and at costs to health insurers 20 to 30 times that at which you could purchase the same product as a supplement at the corner store. One particular head of the FDA is noted as saying that he would not even approve a drug, let alone a supplement, that was not produced by a major drug company or a small firm that had not partnered with a major drug company. In essence, the Pharma industry in America was a sort of feudal oligarchy of a small number of major drug firms who in collusion with the FDA controlled the entire market for drugs, supplements and herbal extracts. That is what the Dietary act of 1996 was intended to abolish . So, like any spoilt child that has been reprimanded the FDA simply removed itself entirely from any control or influence over the dietary supplement industry. As consumers, we don't want the FDA to be involved in our choices of supplements but of couse as taxpayers who fund the agency and all of it's employees, salaries, pensions and benefits, we want to know that what the label says is contained in the capsule actually is in the capsule or pill of any product that we buy. The FDA and the Pharma industry of course anticipated this problem and knew that unscrupulous people were going to enter the industry and make a lot of money. It is a very lucrative market. You can purchase Vit C from corn starch in bulk for 10 dollars a kilo in powdered form and sell it in pill form of 10 cents a pill. The markup from raw material to capsule/pill form is better than selling narcotic drugs in some cases.  

 

      Thanks for the link and the explanation. Much appreciated. If I cannot find what I want, I will probably buy one of the ready made products as you have done.

 

John

[Randy Mitchell]

Hi John,

It's important to be clear that Chicken of the Woods and Turkey Tail are two completely different mushrooms. We're off-topic here and I get nervous describing wild mushrooms online. Wouldn't want someone getting ill because of an incomplete description or misunderstanding.

1.) Chicken of the woods is highly perishable and for this reason I doubt you will ever find it sold fresh. Even under refrigeration it spoils very quickly and in this condition will cause vomiting and diarrhea. It does not dry well and canned mushrooms are generally disappointing. I would not consume Chicken of the Woods unless I had picked it the same day myself, preferably from Oak, and knew for sure that I had correctly identified it. I am not aware of any medicinal properties associated with Chicken of the Woods but it's a real kick to find and prepare. (The resemblance to sauteed breast of chicken is uncanny.)

2.) Turkey Tail found in Northern California is a thin, woody fungus which no-one would consider eating. My favorite wild mushroom field guide, "Mushrooms Demystified" by David Aurora, wryly notes: “Boil for 62 hours, squeeze thoroughly, and serve forth.” In other words, the broth may contain beneficial compounds but not even five days of boiling will tenderize the woody flesh.

With any wild mushroom, the best and possibly the only way to be sure of what you're getting is to join a local mycological society, buy the best field guide for your region, take a few guided mushroom hikes and learn proper identification. Turkey Tail lookalikes may have gills on the underside, or a smooth surface, instead of pores. The group can teach you to take and analyze spore prints to help confirm identification. No wild mushroom is fool-proof, but these two are distinct enough to be nearly idiot-proof.

Offhand I don't know a vendor who sells whole Turkey Tail. I assume you want dried product. In what region of the world would you want it to be from, and growing on what kind of tree?

Randy

[John Flamboris]

       Actually, the subject of mushrooms in general is very pertinent to the subject of cancer. I saw one study a week ago that said that 10grams of just about any mushroom has very positive effects on health if taken over a very long period of time.

 

         I am aware of the differences between Turkey Tail and
Chicken of the woods but had never heard of the latter until you brought it up so thanks. I will take your word for it with regards to it's qualities and suitability . I've grown mushrooms on logs in Thailand. My wifes cousin learned it from someone in the mountains. For awhile it was quite profitable but eventually you have to get new logs and it requires more work than I cared to do for the amount of money we were getting so I abandoned the project.

 

           As for wild mushrooms, I concur with your hesitantcy and will add something of my own. I once worked as a health inspector for a town in New England and one of the first things I learned was about wild mushrooms. An Italian family used to regularly pick them in a Cemetary every friday  in this town and cook them with their pasta. Well, one Friday things did not work out so good because the whole family , a grandmother, husband , wife and a small boy, all got very sick and went into a coma. The health inspectors had to go out to the Cemetary for the day and pick whatever mushrooms they could find and have them tested by the toxicoligy dept. of the hospital to try and identify the toxins and the  mushrooms that went with them.  Well, they never found out and the whole family eventually died. That's a true story and it should be a warning to anyone who is thinking about picking wild mushrooms and is not an expert on them. My wife is not that educated a woman. We routinely buy mushrooms in the outdoor markets of the village and last year I saw some I had never seen before and wanted to try them. She told me that she would not buy them and she could not identify them . She also knew people who had eaten the wrong mushrooms and not survived.

 

       I do not know at this time where to get any whole Turkey Tail mushrooms either but i'm going to investigate the matter the best I can. As for what part of the world they should come from, on what wood they would have been grown, at what altitude and other climatic conditions they should be grown and what season they should be harvested I havn't a clue and I don't know of any literature that speaks to these issues. However, I suspect that such factors are important and those factors are very important when it comes to the harvesting of all sorts of herbs , Fungi and tree bark. Secrets that are not readily passed on to those who are not in the Guild so to speak. Your point is well taken and I suspect that whomever is putting the ground up mushrooms into those capsules probably does not know either. Which is why it is so important to have an expert collecting your herbs, fungi and bark. Thery are of different grades and potentcy  depending on the above factors. Which separates a good herbal medicine from a cheap copy. In fact, a lot of Chinese medical purveyors have taken to substituting cheap drugs for quality herbs in Chinese herbal formulations due to the expense and scarcity of quality herbs. I think the Koreans have a multibillion dollar herbal business going .  I watched a documentary about it on Airang , Korean T.V. and fortunately it was subtitled. It was a huge operation and they made it very clear how important such things as soil, climatic conditions, altitude, weather and season of harvesting meant to the quality of the product. .

 

         My Acupuncturist in Thailand was trained for 3 years in China and worked for another 4 in Vietnam during the Vietnam war and was  working for the Viet Cong, not for us or the South Vietnamese. She is amongst a group of Acupuncturists known as the ''Jungle doctors'' who fled ThaIland during that time as the Thai army was after them as they were Communist sympathizers. Mostly idealistic and misguided kids but she had a medical degree and was an M.D.  Anyway, my point is that she cured my back problem in two visits at 10 dollars each. Prior to that i had suffered with that problem for 25 years and had gone to every kind of doctor you can imagine , includiing 4 Acupuncturists and had spent overall 125k of my insurance company's money and 25k of my own to no avail and no relief. The 4 Acupuncturists I saw in the states did nothing for me and they were certified by the Society of Acupunturists which was organized by medical doctors in the Boston area. My point being that my Thai Acupuncturist was trained for a completely different reason and she was taught the real thing because she was working on wounded soldiers in the jungles of Vietnam. That's how this stuff works. When you are in the Guild, you get the good information. When you are not, you get a few basics but nothing really that important. Sort of like the old Masons.  I asked her if she is going to train anyone as she is getting ready to retire and it appears that she will not and whatever she knows will be retired with her.

 

       So, when it comes to what part of the world and on what kind of wood I want my Turkey Tail Fungi to come from, although I do not know, I bet there is someone out there who does know. Of that I am sure. The trick will be in finding that person(s).

 

        Randy, thanks for all of your information. It is much appreciated and I will file it with my Mushroom files for posterity.

If you have any other pointers, I would appreciate them.

 

John