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Greg Beyer

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Mar 16, 2021, 12:18:10 PM3/16/21
to Prometheus Users

Hello,

 

I’d like to suggest Prometheus considered setting up a forum for support and community conversation, Somethinng like phpBB or SimpleMachines.

 A forum allows separate categories to be setup so that people can post and search within topics.  Some separate topics that come to mind for Prometheus include

 

  • Installation
  • Queries
  • Visualizations
  • Alerting
  • Scaling

 

The big problem with Google groups is that all submissions and answers are all thrown together in one un-organized, un-threaded mess.  It’s difficult to look at what others have asked and answered.  A forum allows a structured knowledge base to be built up by the community

Second, Google groups participation, requires a Google account and the privacy implications that entails.

Thanks for your consideration.

__________________________________________
Gregory Beyer
Sr. Systems Support Engineer
Partnership for an Advanced Computing Environment (PACE)
Georgia Institute of Technology
gbe...@gatech.edu

Julien Pivotto

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Mar 16, 2021, 12:22:19 PM3/16/21
to Greg Beyer, Prometheus Users
On 16 Mar 09:18, Greg Beyer wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
> I’d like to suggest Prometheus considered setting up a forum for support
> and community conversation, Somethinng like phpBB or SimpleMachines.

Hello Greg,

We are evaluating multiple solutions at the moment, which include
discourse and github discussions. We have not taken any decision yet in
any direction, but those discussions are happening.

We hope to bring that as a topic soon in one of our monthly developers
summit.



>
> A forum allows separate categories to be setup so that people can post and
> search within topics. Some separate topics that come to mind for
> Prometheus include
>
>
>
> - Installation
> - Queries
> - Visualizations
> - Alerting
> - Scaling
>
>
>
> The big problem with Google groups is that all submissions and answers are
> all thrown together in one un-organized, un-threaded mess. It’s difficult
> to look at what others have asked and answered. A forum allows a
> structured knowledge base to be built up by the community
>
> Second, Google groups participation, requires a Google account and the
> privacy implications that entails.
>
> Thanks for your consideration.
>
> __________________________________________
> *Gregory Beyer*
> *Sr. Systems Support Engineer*
> *P*artnership for an *A*dvanced *C*omputing *E*nvironment (PACE)
> *Georgia Institute of Technology*
> gbe...@gatech.edu
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Prometheus Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to prometheus-use...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/prometheus-users/c8131332-1b70-4380-906c-354c150f2c88n%40googlegroups.com.


--
Julien Pivotto
@roidelapluie

Greg Beyer

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Mar 16, 2021, 12:35:37 PM3/16/21
to Prometheus Users
Thank you for getting back to me, Julien.

It may be months before Prometheus.io can setup a forum and build a knowledge base??  Prometheus has been around for how many years?  This is a pretty major hole in the product.  Is this a priority?

Greg

Julien Pivotto

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Mar 16, 2021, 12:42:45 PM3/16/21
to Greg Beyer, Prometheus Users
On 16 Mar 09:35, Greg Beyer wrote:
> Thank you for getting back to me, Julien.
>
> It may be *months* before Prometheus.io can setup a forum and build a
> knowledge base?? Prometheus has been around for how many years? This is a
> pretty major hole in the product. Is this a priority?
>
> Greg

Hello Greg,

Stay tuned ; all of this is a priority for us.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/prometheus-users/6a54ff67-cef8-436c-a669-fb783fae09b9n%40googlegroups.com.


--
Julien Pivotto
@roidelapluie

Evelyn Pereira Souza

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Mar 16, 2021, 11:19:38 PM3/16/21
to promethe...@googlegroups.com
On 16.03.21 17:22, Julien Pivotto wrote:
> Hello Greg,
>
> We are evaluating multiple solutions at the moment, which include
> discourse and github discussions. We have not taken any decision yet in
> any direction, but those discussions are happening.
>
> We hope to bring that as a topic soon in one of our monthly developers
> summit.

Hi Julien

thank you for working on this topic.

I would prefer a self-hosted Discourse and/or mailman mailing list.
Please don't use GitHub Discussions (privacy issues with Microsoft $$$).

I ask you to consider privacy in your evaluation and to choose a
solution that is as open as possible (no account coercion, no vendor
lock-in).

best regards
Evelyn
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Evelyn Pereira Souza

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Mar 16, 2021, 11:22:03 PM3/16/21
to promethe...@googlegroups.com
On 16.03.21 17:18, Greg Beyer wrote:
> Second, Google groups participation, requires a Google account and the
> privacy implications that entails.

I fully agree on the privacy issues with Google and other Big Tech, but
there is no Google account required.

See https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/15593

kind regards
Evelyn

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Greg Beyer

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Mar 17, 2021, 11:53:18 AM3/17/21
to Prometheus Users

Hi Evelyn, and thanks for the support.

IMO a mailman mailing list is functionally the same as a google group -- an unstructured list of threads.  A forum platform OTOH provides a framework of major topic areas (established by the admins) into which questions and answers are posted.  I'm not familiar with Discourse -- does it support topic areas?

An the question of Google account requirement, I cannot figure out how to use this group without logging to Google.  I had to login to Google to post my initial question.  Now, I am able to reply to items in this thread, or I presume, start new threads by sending to "promethe...@googlegroups.com" .  There is only one way to search through old conversation threads -- login to Google. :-/  

BTW, I took a look at that stackexchange link on how to not use a Google account.(https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/15593) It seems to me that that link proves the point.  It is very difficult to not use a Google account to subscribe to a G-group.  I attempted the URL method, and even after clearing all cookies - no joy.  Google is very determined to track, trace, cross-reference users on any of its properties.

I would prefer to use a different (work) email for interaction with this list.  I twice sent a message from that address to prometheus-us...@googlegroups.com, subject "subscribe". I got no welcome confirmation, and no bounce-back either, so that's been ineffective.  So, yeah, I'm feeling Google account coercion and Google lock-in.  Google is a space to free oneself from and avoid, not assimilate with the Borg :-)

Thanks, Prometheus.io, for giving this some attention.  A better platform for user collaboration is sorely needed.  At the same time, it will also benefit the product and your company.  Users asking and answering questions in a structured platform naturally builds a knowledge base where it is easy to find info applicable to a given issue.  That can ease adoption and increase your market share.

cheers,

Greg

Ben Kochie

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Mar 17, 2021, 12:10:26 PM3/17/21
to Greg Beyer, Prometheus Users
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 4:53 PM Greg Beyer <web...@beyerusa.net> wrote:

Hi Evelyn, and thanks for the support.

IMO a mailman mailing list is functionally the same as a google group -- an unstructured list of threads.  A forum platform OTOH provides a framework of major topic areas (established by the admins) into which questions and answers are posted.  I'm not familiar with Discourse -- does it support topic areas?


Yes, Discourse is a web-based forum system, but it also supports email-list like functionality.

I use Discourse for some other communities, and while I don't like some of the way it works, it's pretty robust and functional. The big thing that annoys me is the social gaming functions like award badges. IMO, there's no need for this kind of thing in a technical discussion forum. The good news is, the software has 1000 tuning knobs, and you can just turn it off. 


An the question of Google account requirement, I cannot figure out how to use this group without logging to Google.  I had to login to Google to post my initial question.  Now, I am able to reply to items in this thread, or I presume, start new threads by sending to "promethe...@googlegroups.com" .  There is only one way to search through old conversation threads -- login to Google. :-/  

We mirror the prometheus-users group to an external email list archiving service.



BTW, I took a look at that stackexchange link on how to not use a Google account.(https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/15593) It seems to me that that link proves the point.  It is very difficult to not use a Google account to subscribe to a G-group.  I attempted the URL method, and even after clearing all cookies - no joy.  Google is very determined to track, trace, cross-reference users on any of its properties.

I would prefer to use a different (work) email for interaction with this list.  I twice sent a message from that address to prometheus-us...@googlegroups.com, subject "subscribe". I got no welcome confirmation, and no bounce-back either, so that's been ineffective.  So, yeah, I'm feeling Google account coercion and Google lock-in.  Google is a space to free oneself from and avoid, not assimilate with the Borg :-)

Well, Prometheus was inspired by Borgmon, so there might be no escaping the Borg (which inspired Kubernetes). ;-) 

Thanks, Prometheus.io, for giving this some attention.  A better platform for user collaboration is sorely needed.  At the same time, it will also benefit the product and your company.  Users asking and answering questions in a structured platform naturally builds a knowledge base where it is easy to find info applicable to a given issue.  That can ease adoption and increase your market share.

cheers,

Greg

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:22:03 PM UTC-4 Evelyn Pereira Souza wrote:
On 16.03.21 17:18, Greg Beyer wrote:
> Second, Google groups participation, requires a Google account and the
> privacy implications that entails.

I fully agree on the privacy issues with Google and other Big Tech, but
there is no Google account required.

See https://webapps.stackexchange.com/a/15593

kind regards
Evelyn

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Ben Kochie

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Mar 17, 2021, 12:13:09 PM3/17/21
to Greg Beyer, Prometheus Users
Good news, we've already done the testing and setup. We just needed to hit the launch button.

Which is done, you can now test out https://discuss.prometheus.io.

There's almost nothing there yet, and we we're still thinking about how to organize topics, but we can start using it.

Harald Koch

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Mar 17, 2021, 1:04:56 PM3/17/21
to Prometheus Users
On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, at 12:18, Greg Beyer wrote:

I’d like to suggest Prometheus considered setting up a forum for support and community conversation, Somethinng like phpBB or SimpleMachines.


This debate (forum vs. mailling list vs. newsgroup) has been a constant since the dawn of the internet. Some people prefer web-based forums - I despise them passionately. My biggest complaint is that I have to go to them, regularly, just to check if there's anything new / interesting. Multiply that by the hundreds of things I'm interested in...

But, IMO, the worst thing would be splitting the community into two mostly independent camps. If there's some way to gateway discussions between a web-based forum and the mailling list, then ...

--
Harald

Julien Pivotto

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Mar 17, 2021, 1:08:33 PM3/17/21
to Harald Koch, Prometheus Users
We have tested this and you can turn discourse into a mailing list in your settings.

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Evelyn Pereira Souza

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Mar 19, 2021, 10:40:50 AM3/19/21
to promethe...@googlegroups.com
On 17.03.21 17:12, Ben Kochie wrote:
> Which is done, you can now test out https://discuss.prometheus.io
> <https://discuss.prometheus.io>.

Thanks. I did register but never received the verification mail.

Can you please provide some details how you host it? AWS? Container?
Deployment manifests public?

best regards
Evelyn
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Julien Pivotto

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Mar 19, 2021, 10:43:41 AM3/19/21
to Evelyn Pereira Souza, promethe...@googlegroups.com
It is hosted by discourse.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Prometheus Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to prometheus-use...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/prometheus-users/782e7c5b-4921-9bc3-86c2-da1e0ff264c5%40disroot.org.






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Julien Pivotto
@roidelapluie

Julius Volz

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Mar 19, 2021, 6:06:07 PM3/19/21
to Greg Beyer, Prometheus Users
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 4:53 PM Greg Beyer <web...@beyerusa.net> wrote:

Thanks, Prometheus.io, for giving this some attention.  A better platform for user collaboration is sorely needed.  At the same time, it will also benefit the product and your company.

I'll leave the other points to the others (there's certainly a good debate to be had about community fragmentation vs. some people liking web forums more), but I thought someone should clarify that Prometheus is not a company :) Prometheus is an independent open-source project under the umbrella of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (https://www.cncf.io/), and steered by a bunch of half-paid, half-free-time people under an open governance: https://prometheus.io/governance/

--
Julius Volz
PromLabs - promlabs.com
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