Some Plot issues

[dczanik]

I've been looking at the plot doc and trying to put it in the non-linear format. Doing it this way has made it easier to spot problems with the plot.  I had some issues and questions:

1. Arilou & the Temporal Wrapper: The Arilou don't want you going into OrzSpace. Yet, the Arilou give you the Temporal Wrapper. Why? The only place you can use it is in OrzSpace. The one place they don't want you to go.

2. Do you fight the Arilou to get into OrzSpace? The gamedev doc seems to imply they create a barricade to stop you. As a player, I'm not going to send my allies to their death for the sake of my own curiosity.  Unless I'm convinced it's going to save lives, I just don't see me doing it. But there's nothing I see that clearly tell me, the answers lie in OrzSpace.

3. Why can't you just go home? The Androsynth explain what happened to the Shofixti. When you find out what happens, why not just go home? Your mission is done. 

4. We don't seem to have much purpose for getting minerals. Nobody is really hurting for anything.

5. Many old aliens have little to do. The bulk of the plot seems to revolve around the new aliens. Don't get me wrong, I love the new aliens. They make the universe bigger, but right now, it seems like most of the old aliens have nothing to do. I don't want the new aliens to push aside the old friends.  A lot of the aliens (like the Spathi) are there, but with little to do. The Spathi are easily one of the favorite aliens in SC2. But there's not much beyond breaking them out of their shield. I'm not saying we drop anything, but add something more for the old aliens.  They just seem to exist to have as an ally at the end. To re-cap the lesser used alien missions and their influence on the plot: 

1. Yehat: Nothing really added to the plot.
   
2. Pkunk: Nothing really.
   
3. Shofixti: Fix their home.
   
4. Spathi: Nothing really. You can just break them out.
   
5. Supox: Not in the game.
   
6. Thraddash: Not in the game.
   
7. Earth: Do they offer anything to the plot?
   
8. Kzer-Za: Not in the game.
   
9. Kohr-Ah: Random badguy. The equivalent of the Slylandro Probes really.
   
10. Zoq-Fot-Pik: Not in the game.
    
11. Druuge: Not in the game.
    
12. Ilwrath: Not in the game.
    
13. Arilou: They just give you a temporal wrapper. Nothing else really.
    
14. Orz: They tell you the Androsynth/Arilou lie. They don't really do much in this game though. The bulk of missions involve the Androsynth.
    
15. Supox: Not in the game.
    
16. Neo-Dynarri: Not in the game.
    

The other aliens seem to be used just fine. But that's a lot of aliens (half?) from SC2 that just seem to be woefully underused. I'd just like them to have their moment to shine.

Some suggestions:

• The Ur-Quan seem woefully under utilized. How about them constructing a weapon? Sort of a boss battle in the middle of the game?
  
• Earth: Give us some conflict here. Have the CHMMR force their hand and have some become hostile to you? Perhaps a civil war?
  
• Spathi: Something with reuniting them with the Black Spathi Squadron?  Would also be neat as an addition for melee.
  
• Ilwrath: Don't kill 'em. You could have a lost tribe of atheist Ilwrath. Something to counter-act the one alien, one religion thing that sci-fi always does. Give them a mission where they give you the cloak as a gift.
  
• Orz: Make it really beneficial (beyond having their ship) to keep them as an ally. Perhaps they can create a barrier to drive off the exotics for a while?
  
• Neo-Dynarri: It kills me this "loveable" scoundrel isn't in the game.  It's one of those loose ends from SC2 that I wanted to know what happened to him. Perhaps throw the Kzer-Za back in the game, and he can get rid of them. Of course, he would need to try to double cross you at some point.  Perhaps we put a tiny cape on him and have him declare himself an Emperor. It could be another "boss battle" for the player.
  

These are just quick random ideas, I'm sure you guys can come up with some better ones. And, hey... If I'm wrong on any of this stuff, than I'm wrong :) 

[Gergely Sinkó]

1. and 2.: Make the Orz into Arilou substitutes:

• The Arilou disappear
• The Orz rescue us from the Lurg
• The Orz informs us about the Exotics
• They give us the Temporal Wrapper
  

3.: Cut the Shofixti investigation part out! It makes P6014 start like a dull template episode in Star Trek. It's also almost completely detached: even if cut out, there's little loss content-wise.

4. Gathering minerals being part of the game design kind of implies that we do need them.

5. What you miss might be something I could technically describe as movements observable on the map, SoIs interacting with each other. Jaakko and I exchanged some thoughts about the Spathi not so long ago, though I must say the Spathi are -- if they really are -- one of the favourite aliens because they're funny, regardless of how great role they got in SC2 or in any would-be sequel.

[Jaakko Seppälä]

1. They fear for your safety + the humans' safety -> thus their own
(if we were to believe they indeed have some sort of hidden agenda in
keeping the humans alive and well, SC3-style): they think you may
unleash the Orz/make it *smell* the humans/destroy the galaxy if you
go to Orz space.
Thus you have to make the Arilou understand there are even greater
risks coming (i.e. the exotics) and the only way to combat them
effectively is to use the fast ORZspace transit.
(Why they won't just punch some more holes into quasispace for the
player to use? Well, we can devise a lot of plausible reasons. It
might for instance take years to create a permanent QS portal
properly. It ain't rocket science - it's something much more complex
:)

2. If you look closer into the plotdevdoc it gives you the option to
fight the arilou, but doesn't force you to do so. You can instead seek
the naturally occurring portal to QS and resolve things peacefully.

3. We got to time the events so that the big problems start appearing
once the Shofixti stuff is complete/resolved. Thus you are asked to
postpone your home-going, to keep on investigating pretty please,
since you're the guy with the capable ship, knowledge about alien
encounters etc. ;)
'
4. I don't see much of a problem here. Once the Chmmr break down, the
NAFS is in deep shit and thus you must support yourself as much as you
can. Before that, we can always cook up some lame ass "low-budget"
explanation.

5. I agree. We got some nice stuff for Spathi with Kwayne, but at
least the Yehat need something more. Some dilemma to solve. But as for
other races: We have quite a lot of game to play here already. It just
won't work, if we try to write something for every race + the seven
new ones.

About Kwayne's suggestions for 1&2&3:
We've already committed a lot of time to making these parts work.
There's no sense in making this drastic changes & ripping all we've
accomplished apart. Why not start making a new game from the scratch
while we're at it.

As for 5: That's a good way to give some action to otherwise
'neglected' races. Some race that doesn't have much to do plotwise
could be used e.g. as an attacking force.

Jaakko

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[Jaakko Seppälä]

Sorry about my tardiness in replying. Unfortunately the things at work
have continued hectic. We were supposed to get our prototype
(top-secret stuf, heh heh...) ready by the end of the may but we ran
into problems on quite-a-many fronts :(
So there's not gonna be much of me in P6014 circles for some time now.

Jaakko

[Gergely Sinkó]

1. They fear for your safety + the humans' safety -> thus their own (if we were to believe they indeed have some sort of hidden agenda in keeping the humans alive and well, SC3-style): they think you may unleash the Orz/make it *smell* the humans/destroy the galaxy if you go to Orz space.

Probably that's true if to *smell* equates to know -- or have a potential to know -- about the nature of the Orz (IDF), which I kind of suspect.

Thus you have to make the Arilou understand there are even greater risks coming (i.e. the exotics) and the only way to combat them effectively is to use the fast ORZspace transit.

But why did the Orz open their portal(s)? That I tried to explain by making the Orz into Arilou substitutes. Nevertheless, the answer to this question could remain a mystery for a sequel.

(Why they won't just punch some more holes into quasispace for the player to use? Well, we can devise a lot of plausible reasons. It might for instance take years to create a permanent QS portal properly. It ain't rocket science - it's something much more complex :)

Why close the old ones in the first place? How did they know the time when it's necessary to support the Captain against the Quans? Temporal precognition? Then how they don't know about the Exotics and didn't foresee the Captain's need the second time?

3. We got to time the events so that the big problems start appearing once the Shofixti stuff is complete/resolved.

The only events you can time in a SC styled limited-time puzzle gameplay are the ones that happen independently from other events. You'd need to be able to plan exactly which is the date the Player will resolve the Shofixti investigation in order to be able to plan the timing in the rest of the game, but SC simply doesn't work in a way that you can stick turning points into it's flow.

4. I don't see much of a problem here. Once the Chmmr break down, the NAFS is in deep shit and thus you must support yourself as much as you can. Before that, we can always cook up some lame ass "low-budget" explanation.

A "self-support mission" might explain the need for a flagship. The Chmmr might employ the Captain as an "agent" of theirs, someone who has more freedom in decisions and movements than regular officers. Luckily the Captain is not a regular officer: he assumed command of the Vindicator without previous military training. This shows in his decision options and methods of alien diplomacy in SC2, plus nothing implies he made a carreer as a military guy.

He's definitely talented, but I think the events of SC2 are not sufficient enough for the Chmmr to award the Captain such trust, to make this decision more believable I'd add to the backstory that the Captain was tutored by the Chmmr for some years. Being their chosen one is a stronger explanation for why he gets a starship with their technology.

5. I agree. We got some nice stuff for Spathi with Kwayne, but at least the Yehat need something more. Some dilemma to solve. But as for other races: We have quite a lot of game to play here already. It just won't work, if we try to write something for every race + the seven new ones.

Definitely the Yehat/Pkunk need some more writing.

About Kwayne's suggestions for 1&2&3:
We've already committed a lot of time to making these parts work. There's no sense in making this drastic changes & ripping all we've accomplished apart.

 

I feel a bit disappointed. Regardless of my suggestions, I think the ends justify the means. If P6014 ends up as weak product only because we lack the guts to correct mistakes, the whole project won't worth the overall effort.

Why not start making a new game from the scratch while we're at it.

I think you're mildly exaggerative here. None of my suggestions actually require great changes, only different directions to go forward, and getting rid of a few parts that won't work in the full game.

[Damon Czanik]

Kwayne or Jaakko...Can I get the Spathi stuff so I can put it in the game play file? I don't need dialog just an outline of events.

--

[Gergely Sinkó]

Okay, the Spathi stuff then:

The Spathi don't have a StarBase ...
... because the Chmmr won't waste war material on a race that doesn't contribute properly to the alliance.
... because Spathiwa already has it's moon filled with tunnels that is probably a better fortification than a mere StarBase.
... because the Safe Ones have a paranoid assumption that a StarBase would make Spathiwa a military target and they don't want that.

Consequently the Spathi now use their moon as a base. The comm screen is the same scene, though it's less crowded than before. There's only one guy at the table, namely Fwiffo. Why is he there? Well, no sane Spathi would want to stay outside the Shield, however someone has to represent the Spathi race in the NAFS, and ever since they relocated themselves back on their homeworld they're quite suspicious about a particular sort of Spathi citizen that has passed the line of recklessness, like ...

... going too close to barking dogs ...
... sliding down on stoops ...
... eating ice cream too fast ...

... and such examples of bizarre behaviour. These citizens are dangerous for the whole community and are therefore selected to be transported to the moon base. Two birds with one stone. Fwiffo is the most special among them being the only one ...

... who would tell the Secret Spathi Cypher to anyone threatening him with a vegetable
... who holds the all-Spathi record of losing in Puun-Taffy in the longest streak
... who remained outside the Shield* and fought against the Ur-Quan**

* Of course Fwiffo was several parsecs away and nobody told him about this plan, partly because no one wants to be encased together with a "catastrophe magnet" like him.
** which practically equals to merely tagging along with the Captain

It could be said that Fwiffo is literally the "Unsafe One". (Note: he has the Melnorme game on him.)

The inhabitants of Spathiwa, along with the Safe Ones are under the Slave Shield, have no intention of coming out. When the Captain uses his Shield cracking apparatus, the "Spathiwa Defence Force" will rush out with an infinite amount of Eluders, warning the Captain that people who crack their precious shield are not welcome so pretty please go away! Then the Player may or may not attack the Spathi, but if he does he's awarded with a 300 joke. (I say "awarded" because attacking the Spathi is a very improbable decision.) In this case the ending monologue from them might differ from the default -- just like in the case of the Baul if the Player makes the deal with the government.

Of course the number of Eluders won't run out, so the Captain has to escape before having a chance to open comms with the surface. If he tries to return, he'll be chased away again.

If the Player chooses not to attack the Spathi, then the game simply switches back to the navigation screen with nothing accomplished.

A few weeks later the Spathi will re-erect their Shield.

[Kwayne]

Maybe this is the appropriate place to put up a sample Fwiffo screen. Credits to Damon for his Safe Ones screen, it helped a lot when I needed raw details.

[Damon Czanik]

I love it! Great detail in the background. Wish it was bigger so I wouldn't have to squint to see it all. :)

Discovered this recently, Spriter may be a good tool for animating the Spathi:

http://www.brashmonkey.com/

If I may offer a suggestion, I could see the title Fwiffo gets going to his head. Perhaps a cape or a crown (or both)? He could think he's a big hero until you explain he may only be there because they don't want him on the planet. In the story, it could make for a funny/sad moment. Just an idea.

Awesome work.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Kwayne <kwayne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe this is the appropriate place to put up a sample Fwiffo screen. Credits to Damon for his Safe Ones screen, it helped a lot when I needed raw details.

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[Kwayne]

If I may offer a suggestion, I could see the title Fwiffo gets going to his head.

He could think he's a big hero until you explain he may only be there because they don't want him on the planet.

I think Fwiffo is smart enough to recognize the contradiction in his position without us explaining it to him. He has more flaws than an average Spathi, yet he never made the impression to me that he's an imbecile who can be lured into a delusion (except maybe if it's associated with his fears). In a way he's smarter than most other Spathi, and like those he's also completely aware that in Spathi society, higher rank should come with greater personal safety, yet his promotion puts him in a situation relatively dangerous compared to those under the slave-shield. It would be more true to his nature that he knows his promotion is bogus, but he tries to sugarcoat it, making it look like it is an advantage. Forcing him into admission -- like we did in SC2 -- might be a task necessary to progress the conversation beyond introductory phase.

In the story, it could make for a funny/sad moment. Just an idea.

We could have both at the same time, though I have no concrete idea how it could be worked out. A few moments of silence, ending in a sigh, then admission, then some funny remark signifying his cessation of pretense and returning to his less pretentious, yet more cynical/sarcastic/paranoid self.

Perhaps a cape or a crown (or both)?

Exploring possiblities with headgear might worth a try, though I wouldn't make his image go too far from the common Spathi. I can't promise anything.

Awesome work.

THX

[dczanik]

I mentioned the program Spriter.  Attached is just a quick example.  It would be smoother, but Photoshop (or gifs) cap off their animation speed. This is nothing you couldn't do in Photoshop, but animating in Photoshop can be a pain.

Messing around with this app, really makes me yearn for the chance to update our animation software. Layers, tweening, etc. would be awesome.
The art team could create some amazing looking stuff.

[dczanik]

Google Groups strips out the animation in GIFs. D'oh. Trust me, it's cool. :D