observations
Marco
appearance to understand the context of the computers and problems at
that time.
2) Don't get carried away with "dialect" - I don't consider JOVIAL a
true dialect of Algol it is a derivative work.
( Spanish is a derivative from Latin)
Otherwise everything will be a "dialect"
Sergey Dimchenko
implementations soon.
Now we have this field displayed only for languages and it's optional
(but should be filled, of course).
2) Is the language a language of it's own or a dialect - it's a very
hard question with no absolutely true answer. We had several
discussions about this in the past and had no real good conclusion.
Even with human languages like Latin and Spanish, there are no
universally accepted criteria for distinguishing languages from
dialects, although a number of rough measures exist, which sometimes
render contradictory results [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect ].
And some linguists (historical linguists) say that Spanish is a
dialect of Latin.
Maybe we should develop a number if measures for Progopedia to
distinguishing languages from dialects, but I don't think it's really
possible.
So for now let's deal with this on per case basis. The main reason for
"dialects" in Progopedia's system - to not to pollute "languages
namespace" with similar languages. Another reason - to group similar
languages together. You may think that "language" in Progopedia really
means "language family".
I also believe that in Progopedia all Algol languages (Algol58,
Algol60, Algol W) should be listed as dialects of Algol language.
But because of technical limitation of current engine it's impossible
to move articles from language to dialect, and I don't want to delete
and recreate articles because old article history will be lost.
As for JOVIAL, according to http://jovial.com/jovial.html , the
acronym has come to mean "Jules' Own Version of IAL,", and IAL stands
for "International Algebraic Language," which was a name originally
proposed for ALGOL 58. So it's version, i.e. dialect of ALGOL 58.
Also, as I understand, the syntax is the same or almost the same. So
let's keep JOVIAL as dialect.
Marco
On Dec 25, 10:54 pm, Sergey Dimchenko <kit1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe we should develop a number if measures for Progopedia to
> distinguishing languages from dialects, but I don't think it's really
> possible.
I suggest you bring it up as a discussion topic on comp.lang.misc
and promote Progopedia while you are there
>
> So for now let's deal with this on per case basis. The main reason for
> "dialects" in Progopedia's system - to not to pollute "languages
> namespace" with similar languages. Another reason - to group similar
> languages together. You may think that "language" in Progopedia really
> means "language family".
>
> I also believe that in Progopedia all Algol languages (Algol58,
> Algol60, Algol W) should be listed as dialects of Algol language.
> But because of technical limitation of current engine it's impossible
> to move articles from language to dialect, and I don't want to delete
> and recreate articles because old article history will be lost.
the language creators were willing to use the ALGOL name so
obviously some dialect was implied but many feel that Algol68 is not
really a true dialect of ALGOL 60
>
> As for JOVIAL, according tohttp://jovial.com/jovial.html, the
> acronym has come to mean "Jules' Own Version of IAL,", and IAL stands
> for "International Algebraic Language," which was a name originally
> proposed for ALGOL 58. So it's version, i.e. dialect of ALGOL 58.
> Also, as I understand, the syntax is the same or almost the same. So
> let's keep JOVIAL as dialect.
Similar syntax is not a good enough reason to declare as dialect
No JOVIAL has as much FORTRAN as it does ALGOL in it
I think it was only inspired by IAL (maybe need someone that was
around at that time to comment) but I think compilers for it came
first
If you want to learn about older languages see for example:
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~basili/publications/technical/T12%20Pt%201%20of%202.pdf