Permissive Possession

[sarv punj]

Dear friends,

Looks our fight with Spaze over 10% increase in Super Area and other issues has reached a lull. I was only wondering as to whether Spaze can force us to take possession without OC? Can we not jointly take a stand that No Possession without OC? If for any reasons the members decide to take the so called Permissive Possession, it should not be on Spaze's terms only. We can at least insist that we shall pay 50% now and balance on actual possession? meanwhile we may continue our struggle regarding super area and other issues. During my recent visit to my apartment , I find that a lot of work is still pending. I also notice that plaster just under the kitchen counter was peeling off just by touch of my hand. Many facilities are not yet ready. So we are within our right to hold part payment till everything is sorted out to our satisfaction. I don't think we can handle these issues independently. A joint effort will be necessary to make Spaze agree to our point of view. I don't know if we are having a meeting with Spaze coming Saturday. Kindly inform if any member has a clue. Thanks.

Punj

[Manish Jindal]

Friends,
I don't think there will be any response from Spaze till we keep making payments, either full or partial. Until proper justification is provided and approval taken from owners, there is no reason for continuing making any payment over and above the agreed one in buyer's agreement.
Just my humble opinion with whatever experience I have with real estate companies.

-Manish

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com>

Sender: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:35:53 +0530

To: Privys...@googlegroups.com<Privys...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Privy Sector 72] Permissive Possession

Dear friends,

Looks our fight with Spaze over 10% increase in Super Area and other issues has reached a lull. I was only wondering as to whether Spaze can force us to take possession without OC? Can we not jointly take a stand that No Possession without OC? If for any reasons the members decide to take the so called Permissive Possession, it should not be on Spaze's terms only. We can at least insist that we shall pay 50% now and balance on actual possession? meanwhile we may continue our struggle regarding super area and other issues. During my recent visit to my apartment , I find that a lot of work is still pending. I also notice that plaster just under the kitchen counter was peeling off just by touch of my hand. Many facilities are not yet ready. So we are within our right to hold part payment till everything is sorted out to our satisfaction. I don't think we can handle these issues independently. A joint effort will be necessary to make Spaze agree to our point of view. I don't know if we are having a meeting with Spaze coming Saturday. Kindly inform if any member has a clue. Thanks.

Punj

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[Sandeep Arora]

In my humble opinion, a legal notice is the best way forward if everyone wants to fight it united...

Legal action now has the following advantages and disadvantages over legal action after taking possession:

Adv:

1) Spaze will not get the money they have demanded for tower F,G,H and will prevent them from sending letters to others. If we can get a stay order their attitude will have to change...

2) Having not received the money they will have a high incentive to a) push for OC and b) give possession when the flats/facilities are in better shape

3)Innumerable issues related to early/permissive  possession will be avoided and will be in the best interests of ALL the buyers

4) Spaze is playing on buyers' fear (especially tower F,G,H) right now with established due dates for balance payments (and allowing some people to deffer with provisions that ultimately favor Spaze) - they are using divide and rule policy. The buyers group can be united by taking a common stand and it will provide a stronger position to buyers to renegotiate.

5) I believe that Spaze wants to avoid hassles (including further delays) in this project and will be more than eager to negotiate, once they see a united response.

DisAdv:

1) Folks who have taken loans will likely have added problems with lenders (i.e. banks) etc.

2) They will have to continue paying the monthly rentals that they might be paying right now.

Best Regards,
Sandeep Arora

[Ajay Kumar Tyagi]

I request you to be united for legal action.

 

Pl vote for it.

[Manish Jindal]

I am for it.

[sarv punj]

Friends, The disadvantage I see in going for litigation is that this can drag on for any length of time and our 95% payment which is already with Spaze will remain blocked. Those who are paying rent as well as loan installments will have added disadvantage. It may perhaps be better option to negotiate for part payment and release the balance payment on receipt of OC. We can meet and discuss on Saturday.

Punj

[gaurav dixit]

Dear freinds,
Due to some unavoidable circumstance wont be able to attend the meeting.my wife, drdiksha, who was there in thelast meeting is out of town on that date.please pardon
I agree with mr punj that going for a litigation wud not b a great idea at this pt of time when 95% of our money is stuck
i am already on loan for the same and paying rent at the same time , paying this last payment at such a short notice is a problem
My suggestion is to buy time
M a future occupant of h22 ....whatever u decide please find my full support.in case any written confirmation on agreement of delay in payment please include my name...sorry for not being physically present there....I m pursuing higher studies in vellore so because of professional constraints cant join u people
Dr gaurav
H22 spaze privy

[Anand Tripta]

Yes, I agree.

Dr. Anand  Inder j

Anand  Inder j

Sent from my iPhone

[Vikas Tandon]

Have we got any confirmation that there is indeed a 10% increase in superarea? Also I haven't seen any justification of electricity charges they are asking.

Till there is no written clarification from them, please keep calling and writing to them. Everyone should inform them that Spaze buyers are getting united and one there is a good number of people who wasn't to take legal recourse.

If you don't pursue legal action now, they will not deliver the flat in a good condition and will hasten up things because they want to collect money. Please have patience, A few months of rent/interest saved is less compared to the extra amount we are going to shell out to Spaze.

Regards,

Vikas Tandon

[Sandeep Arora]

Initiating  legal action does NOT stop us from negotiating... in fact with legal notice served to Spaze, they are more likely to change their attitude and will have to be more reasonable in their approach... they might be forced to provide better feedback than they are doing right now...

Right now they are only wasting your time and picking on your fear of not paying in time...

for those who feel 95% of their payment is stuck.... In a short while when the payment due date expires not only will 100% of your payment (if you pay the rest i.e.) will be stuck, you will be given an inferior product with sub par or non existent facilities and charged extra for no good reason... without full ownership rights...

how will you feel then?

[Vikas - Creative Ideas]

Just now spoke to vivek on the points he was supposed to get back to us, like justification of increased area, submitted last Saturday. 

He has confirmed that he will not be giving any clarifications and that the matter of Area is final, from their side.

Regards

Vikas Kumar

9810316383

Sent from Samsung Super Smart Mobile

[Ajay]

Dear all,

As I had told in the first two meetings,  that Spaze can't give us the area details with reasons as this will weaken their stand legally.

Spaze has to pay us delay penalty till OC.

Matter can be solved within this duration. Without our consent they can't increase area drastically.

Thus in my opinion legal action is the last resort to find justice. We should not loose further time and process for legal action unitedly.

Thanks n regards

Sent from my iPhone

[Sanjay Saini]

I am in


Sanjay Saini

[sarv punj]

The problem with legal action is that we cannot build a consensus on this. We don't have the addresses of all the owners and will not be able to get that required strength. So far just about 40 persons have gathered together. I still feel that getting extension of time and holding part payment may be a better option. As expressly told by Spaze, they will give us an undertaking to bear full responsibility of any legal matters arising on account of no OC and that the apartments can be occupied on the basis of their undertaking. Having taken possession, we can still continue our fight particularly if we are able to hold back half of the money demanded by Spaze. Spaze have made it clear that they will not share any information on the increase in super area. Let us discuss it on coming Saturday(11th Jan) and decide the course of action.

Punj

[Saurabh Chadha]

Can someone also provide information on how construction is going out there, are they releasing apartments as of now.

Or are we still looking at years ahead...

Thanks,

[Vikas Tandon]

Knowing spaze, they will ask you to waive of any legal action and claims if you sign their document now. Isn't 40 a good number to go for a legal action? does anyone have list of those 40 people, we can go with a voting on legal action or not.

Also, any idea on how we can find more owners contact details? 

Regards,
Vikas Tandon

On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 5:39 AM, sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Rishi Gosain]

I am fully with you guys even if my condo is little ways...Rishi Gosain.E123.Also Haryana govt has grievience system in place.Stateconsumer disputes redressal comm ,sec 4 bay 36 Panchkula...http://harsamadhan.gov.in.....http://ncdrc.nic.in.....mcg.gov.in...phone#18001801817

[sarv punj]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: sarv punj
Date: Saturday, January 11, 2014
Subject: Permissive Possession
To: Abhishek Agrawal <agrawal....@gmail.com>


Thanks Mr.Abhishek. Your advice is well taken. Though I am not keen to move soon, my only worry is that I am a retired senior citizen and fighting a legal case will be rather difficult because it might become a long drawn battle. Still we can know the nerve of the members and decide. I still prefer that we should make Spaze agree on taking 50% payment now and balance 50% on possession. They should also agree on one month's extension. As told by Vivek Sharma in one of the meetings, those who want to occupy their apartments can do so on the basis of Permissive Possession and Spaze will take full responsibility if any legal complications arise. He said that they will give this in writing.Those who need to rent out their apartments can also do so and thereby start earning on the heavy investment made by them, else their money remains blocked till the decision is made by the court. We can still We can still continue our fight regarding 10% increase in the super area through legal notice after taking Permissive Possession. Let's us meet and discuss the best course of action.

Regards.

Punj

On Thursday, January 9, 2014, Abhishek Agrawal wrote:

Dear Mr. Punj,

A. We are very well withing our rights to dispute the payment as well.
In the last meeting Mr. Sharma did indicate the same as our Builder
Buyer Agreement mentions "on offer of possession" and this is not
possession. I believe that if you want, then you should send a notice
to Spaze, stating that this is not in line with the agreement and they
should take back the demand. Since the payment date is near by, if you
intend to go down this path, you need to act quickly.

B. The current situation is a result of constant pressure by several
of the owner, who would like to take possession and shift. For past
several months several of us have given representations to Spaze and
have held several meetings to expedite the hand over. So I am not sure
how many of the owners would like to stall till the OC is obtained.
For my case, at this point of time I know that happen whatever may I
will not shift before August 2014 or may be even later. Similarly
others will have their own constraints.

C. Spaze office is closed on second Saturday of every month. The
coming Saturday being second Saturday (January 11), the office is
closed, therefore there is no meeting with Spaze.

D. To the best of my knowledge, a meeting of the owners at Spaze site
at 11:00 AM is planned on this Saturday (January 11) to discuss the
path forward. If you are available, then request you to plan to
attend. Since the meeting is planned at the site, it may not be in as
comfortable environment as Spaze office.

E. In the last meeting we pressed Mr. Sharma for "justification" of
increase in super area. He was bent on that we "verify" the current
area. Finally we gave in writing that we need "justification" and he
agreed to get back after consulting with his legal department. We have
not yet heard back from him so far.

F. If you have received the demand note (towers F, G and H) and wish
to get a deferment for one month, you can get the same. You would need
to give Spaze a letter to this effect. Three of us who were in the
last meeting did give Mr. Sharma such a letter and he approved the
same on the spot. The letter also has a clause that if the payment is
not done within one month, then interest would be applicable on the
deferred period. So, if you do not intend to pay after one month, do
not seek deferment.

Regards,
Abhishek


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:49 AM, sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Vikas Tandon]

Dear All,

In my humble opinion, the decision to pay part and dispute can be taken after a couple of months also - spaze will never say no to money whenever it comes their way, but giving into pressure now will just weaken our own situation. 

being out of country i am unable to attend the meeting at spaze site. would look forward to feedback from your kind self on what are the next steps and agreement with Spaze.

Regards,

Vikas Tandon

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Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Manish Jindal]

Dear All,
I concur with Vikas that giving any payment now means giving in to the unreasonable demand from builder. This is the only stage at which problem can be addressed effectively. At a later stage it will just become a formality.
Regards,

Manish

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Vikas Tandon <tando...@gmail.com>

Sender: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 00:40:10 -0500

To: Privys...@googlegroups.com<Privys...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Privy Sector 72] Fwd: Permissive Possession

[mangesh khisty]

Hi !

 

Am sure there must be some of us who has opted for housing loan.

do you have any idea how bank is going to treat this additional 155 sqft area ?

Also is bank ready to disburse 100% ammount without getting OC certificate ?

 

Please confirm

 

Regards

 

Mangesh

From: Manish Jindal <manishj...@yahoo.com>
To: Privys...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 11 January 2014 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Privy Sector 72] Fwd: Permissive Possession

Dear All,

I concur with Vikas that giving any payment now means giving in to the unreasonable demand from builder. This is the only stage at which problem can be addressed effectively. At a later stage it will just become a formality.
Regards,
Manish

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Regards,
Vikas Tandon

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[Nagendra]

Dear Abhishek

My flat is H 111. 

Currently I m in USA. I want a deferment of 1 month, as has been done by you. Pl send me the Email id on which I can make such a request. 

Thnx and Rgrds

Anupam Sharma

Sent from my iPad

[Abhishek Agrawal]

Dear Nagendra,

You will have to get in touch with Spaze directly. The contact is Mr.
Vivek Sharma, GM Commercial. His mail id is vivek....@spaze.in

Regards,
Abhishek

[gautam arora]

Dear All,

We were 24 members who met on Saturday and discussed the below points.

 

1. We are going ahead with making the payment and thereafter we will take the possession of our appartments.

2. Majority of us want possession and are ready  to make the payment. After possession, if we want to go legal, we have the freedom and choice.We can decide on that later.

3. For those of you, who want to go leagal before possession are most welcome to go ahead. Please form your sub group to file a legal case and the larger group will provide all moral and financial support and that too after we have taken possessions.

 

4. Four group representatives had been identified, (Gautam, Bhupinder, Abhinav and Anuj) who will represent the group and try for the settlement of the pending issues of the members who had met on Saturday with Vivek.

 

Dear Mr. Punj, we have already  taken a decision to go ahead with the payment and on coming Saturday we will only be looking at getting issues related to penalty, fine etc. resolved. We will be focusing on ensuring that we get issues related to amenities and security resolved.

 

Regards,

Gautam

 

 

 

 

 

 

Punj

I am for it.

[gaurav dixit]

I am for it

[Nagendra]

Me too. H 111

Pl guide me as how to get an extn. in payment as I m out of country till 23 jan. 

Thnx& rgrds

Anupam Sharma

Sent from my iPad

[sarv punj]

I hope you will also take one month' extension for those whoop are willing to pay. But by next Saturday, the last date will already be over. Intention is that we should not have to pay penal interest.

Thanks and best wishes,

SK Punj

[Manoj Juneja]

dear all

 

I am with Gautam for this !

 

Regards

 

Manoj Juneja

[Rishi Gosain]

Dear All, Thanks for the practicle decision.We should file a collective and individual complaint with the consumer redressal board with office in and around sec 40.that carries a lot of wt of future decisions.A dated complaint with copies to other agencies will us all as and when decision is made. Persons in / around should be more helpful in achieving this.....Rishi Gosain,E123.

[Amit Agarwal]

Dear fellow members,

I received the possession letter along-with demand letter today for flat no. 32 in tower A.

I am going to send them a legal notice for the following:

- non adjustment of late delivery penalty

- additional charges of electrification

- raising demand without actual completion of work

This is for your information please.

Thanks & regards,

Amit Agarwal

Mobile No. - 9910745458

[Manish Jindal]

Dear Amit, all,
Spaze is playing on the impatience of some us. I am going to take the same action whenever they demand this extra money from me. No use in getting cheated for going after a small short term gain.
Regards,

Manish

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Amit Agarwal <akprodu...@gmail.com>

Sender: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 05:56:18 -0800 (PST)

To: <Privys...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Privy Sector 72] Re: Permissive Possession

[Vikas Tandon]

I am looking at legal action as well. Any ideas on how a legal notice can be sent. i am not staying in India and any information on where and how to take this approach will be very useful.

regards,

Vikas Tandon

--
Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Ajay]

I am for it from the starting of the issue. We should hire a lawyer. If you had one, pl also let me know I am also searching for the one.

Sent from my iPhone

[Abhinav Bansal]

Spaze is not negotiating on increased area and anyone who is going legal will not get possession.

So I think, we should take possession and then go legal by forming a RWA.

[Vikas Tandon]

Can they decide unilateral not to give possession? 

Regards,

Vikas Tandon

--
Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Ajay]

Why don't we got all answers from advocate?

Sent from my iPhone

[Sandeep Arora]

Mr. Amit Agarwal,

Good decision on going legal. I have been mulling over it myself and just waiting for the letter from Spaze.

Please let us know if you have an advocate and if you would like others to join and take a collective action as a group.

I think that it would be better if we do it as a group as the costs too can be shared.

Let us know your convenience.

Best Regards,
Sandeep Arora

[RAVINDERJIT GUJRAL]

Dear All
 
Let me reiterate a couple of things here :
 
1). Going legal is okay but is this timing right. This project is already delayed and now when possession is at the final stages going legal would delay the process indefinately. Pls note : my meetings with Vivek at one to one clearly indicates that management is not negotiating with us on the increased area and they are ready internally to take on the customers at the legal level. The onus is on us to prove that flat areas are not as per the final measurements.
 
2). For the electricity related cost - the management is not willing to come forward explaining the detailing thereof. This is also a dead end. This is also non-negotiable.
 
3). CAM Advance - This is not to be paid as of now and shall be chequed to a separate agency in March 2014.
 
4). For all other concerns regarding deferment of payment, delayed penalty, discount etc - one needs to meet the commercial dept of spaze headed by Mr. Vivek Sharma and sort it out individually.
 
Also the management needs us to sign an undertaking absolving them of all wrong doings.
 
I am not sure if taking a legal action at this stage will be prudent. Pls think over.
 
Flip points :
 
1). Possession is not possible without payment and signing the undertaking. If we do this - then do we surrender or weaken the legal option later once we move in and fight as a part of RWA.
 
2). There is no clarity on lot of issues like - Electricity rate, water, sewage etc - once families move in.
 
We as a group have been constantly deliberating and pushing on the same. However the same has gone slow due to focus on increased area.
 
Point to note here is - Can a legal stand be valid in law if possession is taken and RWA is formed and then fight for the increased given that undertaking is also signed and handed over to the builder.  
 
 

Regards,

 

Ravinderjit Singh Gujral

 

---

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 11:06:05 +0530
Subject: Re: [Privy Sector 72] Re: Permissive Possession
From: sandee...@gmail.com
To: Privys...@googlegroups.com

[Manish Jindal]

 

Dear Friends,

 

I would agree with Amit and Sandeep. Joint action will save cost for us as well as be more impactful. I think we need to collate the inputs from everyone in this group and other owners as well who are not part of this group right now.

 

So as a next step, I have created an online form for collecting information about all the owner's in Spaze Privy 72 and to take everyone's input on what their preferred next step should be. This database will help us in coordinating the ongoing effort for taking whatever action we wish to take in a joint manner. Please click on the link below (Google docs form) and fill in your details.

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pDF_eDDI-4rWc3qUQWYjyayG_cDFgJAJIuifg2kEYxQ/viewform

 

This link can be forwarded to other owners who are currently not part of this google group, so kindly do the same.

 

Any further suggestions are welcome.

 

Best Regards,

Manish

[sarv punj]

Dear all,

I think the concerns raised by Shri Gujral are quite valid. Taking possession requires an undertaking which absolves Spaze of all the responsibility with regard to construction deficiencies and other related issues. Therefore,we need to change a number of clauses of the undertaking eg 

clause 2.... We have not requested Spaze to give us Permissive Possession, it's kind of being imposed on us.

Clause 4... Fit out guidelines , what are these , these are nowhere specified and onus of so many things will come to us.

Clauses 7 and 8. .... The apartments continue to vest with the company even after making full payment till OC is received. These clauses should be deleted and Spaze should clearly say that we shall be given right to live and that for all practical purposes the property is passed on to us except that the registration will be completed on receipt of OC.

Clause 13.... It's is not clear that why the contractor or his staff will not be permitted to enter the premises after 10 am in case we engage one to do the fit outs? All they should say is that no work shall be carried out beyond the hours specified. Again who guarantees that the fittings and fixtures which we do in our respective apartments will not be vandalized in our absence.?

Clause 19... Should be deleted

Clause 20 .... Later half of the clause is not clear.

Clause 21 ..... Should be deleted.

Clause 22. ...... Once the Permissive possession is taken we shall not be bestowed the right to occupy which is apparently denied by virtue of this clause, so this clause should be deleted.

Clause 27 ..... The company should  first discharge it's obligation of settling delay penalty before the undertaking can be signed.

There may be more points noticed by other owners which they should share so that Spaze can be asked to modify the draft of the undertaking .

I request all members to kindly go through my comments and add / subtract whatever they think is missed out or not proper. 

I hope there will be some unanimous response.

Thanks and regards.

S K Punj

[Dheeraj]

Hi guys 

I suggest we all pool in some money and hire a lawyer.

This will get messy 

Regards

Dheeraj Kaul

9250006375

[Manish Jindal]

Dear All,
Please fill in your details and preferred way of proceeding on this issue by using the link below in my previous mail.
Once we have the details of at least 40-50 people, we can confidently move ahead taking concrete steps.
Regards,
Manish Jindal

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1pDF_eDDI-4rWc3qUQWYjyayG_cDFgJAJIuifg2kEYxQ/viewform

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---

From: Manish Jindal <mji...@gmail.com>

Sender: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:25:45 +0530

To: <Privys...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Privy Sector 72] Re: Permissive Possession

[Vikas Kumar]

 Dear Friends,

I have received the Demand letter for my Appt. and after having gone through the Undertaking and the points mentioned by Mr. Punj, I am of opinion that Permissive possession should only be offered to people interested in taking it.

Letter clearly mentions that this offer of Permissive possession is only to take payments from us and that it has no relevance to the Actual handing over of the flat.

Please bear following points in mind apart form 10% increased Area justification:-

1) Going logically legal will not hamper project. I mean let us fight for the very purpose of Permissive possession and nothing else, that is - its timing should be at Offer of possession, once O.C. is obtained.

This can and be the first point of legality with M/s. Spaze, which will not effect any one. Let us be clear once we pay, Spaze will have no interest in seeking O.C.

2) We will end up filling their coffer endlessly as maintenance charges without getting any Physical possession.

3) Clause 8 clearly states that we have no intention of occupying the flat and that its physical possession is yet to be given. Then why are we paying, as per Buyer Builder agreement we were supposed to pay final payment only on possession.

4) The Electrification charges put up in demand note says Cost of Transformers, substations etc and not the additional cost. What this means is that there was no cost taken into consideration at the time of sale, than how these facilities were promised.

5) as per clause 27 we forfeit our right for delayed penalty which should be upto possession not permissive possession.

I am in agreement with Mr. Punj on all points as stated above except for Clause 4 of undertaking, which I find valid.

I am in my personal capacity writing a letter to M/s. Spaze seeking clarification on some of the above points and shall be taking further action based on the reply.  

" UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL ".

Warm Regards,

 

(Vikas Kumar)

From: sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com>
To: "Privys...@googlegroups.com" <Privys...@googlegroups.com>

[sarv punj]

Friends, this is in reply to Mr. Manish Jindal who has circulated a form to create a data base.

I have already filled up the form created by him , however, most owners are not aware of this group and we don't have their addresses/email ids to communicate. Thus essentially it's only 30-40 members who are already following this group. You might recollect that we had a meeting at site last Saturday and Mr Gautam has already circulated the decisions taken there. Consensus was to take possession and then take legal recourse. Only thing is that we should ensure that after signing the undertaking for Permissive Possession, we should not lose the right to take legal action for which the views of a lawyer should be taken. I think that some clauses of the undertaking should be deleted /modified. I have submitted a mail in this group and pointed out some clauses which need to be deleted or modified. In addition, I think  a clause relating to our right to protest should be included and suitably worded. I forgot to mention this in my mail. Kindly take a look.

Best wishes,

S K Punj

[Manish Jindal]

Dear Mr. Punj,

 

You have a valid point that there is no harm in negotiating for modification of the language in the undertaking for Permissive Possession. So my view is that we should approach via multiple routes, so if one doesn't work, we have other fallback options available and we don't reach a situation of helplessness.

 

To me it looks like there is not going to be an easy way out anyway, and in such situation it is better to face it head on with united strength.

 

Best Regards,

Manish Jindal

 

[Ajay]

Dear all

On my opinion we had the last resort left is a legal action.

As

- Area increase is unexplainable

- Electricity charges unexplainable

- Possession does not have any legal standing without OC 

On the other hand, everything we are discussing is for the benefit of Spaze.

Regards

Sent from my iPhone

[Amit Agarwal]

Dear Sandeep, all,

 

I plan to visit the site on this Saturday or Sunday to note ( and take photographs) of the deficiencies in cnstruction.

 

I plan to then send a legal notice to Sapze next week.

 

I have prior experience of handling the same situation ( late delivery penalty as well as wrong measurement by builder ) through legal route. Last time it was after taking possession therefore the favourable decision took long. This time, it has to be before.

 

I would have to fight it alone as adviced by my advocate who is also my real brother-in-law.

 

Thanks & regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vikas Kumar]

Dear Friends,

Further to my mail it came to my mind that on an Average Rs. 10,000,00/- is due from each and every investor so nearly 50 crores are to accrue to Spaze. Which is not  a small amount. So if we all collectively say that payments are to be made after OC they will have to comply.

Once this payment is realized by them think out loud, why will a builder pay any thing to departments for obtaining OC, electricity and other facilities.

Is there any benefit for  them.....?

I guess we will have to fight for our rights not only with spaze but also with government authorities and we will collectively loose more money as the RWA thus formed will have to pay for all the bribes etc to get the work done...

When Spaze has not cooperating with us so far by sharing information available with them what will we do when these facilities are not provided. Even a minuscule 1 KW of electricity from genset will cost us nearly Rs. 15000 - 18,000/- per month + common maintenance charges, only than will we realize our mistake.

A small request to all those who plan to pay now, please re-think....

Atleast let us collectively challenge the validity of this so called permissive possession. I am fully aware of the pain some us might be going through even my hard earned money is involved and I too have taken loan for this property but I am not going to give up.

I am ready to fight.

Warm Regards,

 

(Vikas Kumar)

 9810316383

[Vikas Tandon]

thanks for the detailed options Mr Gujral. you brought out another important point 

Also the management needs us to sign an undertaking absolving them of all wrong doings. 

This does add to the flip side of not registering our protest in a legal form today. wouldnt this mean our legal case is already weakened?

regards,
Vikas Tandon

Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Ajay Kumar Tyagi]

Dear Amit,

 

I am with you, though I haven’t received yet the notice.

--

[Sanjay Saini]

Hi Gautam,

Did you get any reply from Spaze regarding this?

I called them to discuss my account statement and found out they started charging interest from 17-Jan.

Can you please share if you heard back from them?

Thanks
Sanjay Saini

On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 11:21 PM, gautam arora <gautama...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear All,

We were 24 members who met on Saturday and discussed the below points.

 

1. We are going ahead with making the payment and thereafter we will take the possession of our appartments.

2. Majority of us want possession and are ready  to make the payment. After possession, if we want to go legal, we have the freedom and choice.We can decide on that later.

3. For those of you, who want to go leagal before possession are most welcome to go ahead. Please form your sub group to file a legal case and the larger group will provide all moral and financial support and that too after we have taken possessions.

 

4. Four group representatives had been identified, (Gautam, Bhupinder, Abhinav and Anuj) who will represent the group and try for the settlement of the pending issues of the members who had met on Saturday with Vivek.

 

Dear Mr. Punj, we have already  taken a decision to go ahead with the payment and on coming Saturday we will only be looking at getting issues related to penalty, fine etc. resolved. We will be focusing on ensuring that we get issues related to amenities and security resolved.

 

Regards,

Gautam

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com>
To: "Privys...@googlegroups.com" <Privys...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, 10 January 2014 4:09 PM

Subject: [Privy Sector 72] Re: Permissive Possession

The problem with legal action is that we cannot build a consensus on this. We don't have the addresses of all the owners and will not be able to get that required strength. So far just about 40 persons have gathered together. I still feel that getting extension of time and holding part payment may be a better option. As expressly told by Spaze, they will give us an undertaking to bear full responsibility of any legal matters arising on account of no OC and that the apartments can be occupied on the basis of their undertaking. Having taken possession, we can still continue our fight particularly if we are able to hold back half of the money demanded by Spaze. Spaze have made it clear that they will not share any information on the increase in super area. Let us discuss it on coming Saturday(11th Jan) and decide the course of action.

Punj

On Friday, January 10, 2014, Ajay wrote:

Dear all,

As I had told in the first two meetings,  that Spaze can't give us the area details with reasons as this will weaken their stand legally.

Spaze has to pay us delay penalty till OC.

Matter can be solved within this duration. Without our consent they can't increase area drastically.

Thus in my opinion legal action is the last resort to find justice. We should not loose further time and process for legal action unitedly.

Thanks n regards

Sent from my iPhone

Anand  Inder j

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 9, 2014, at 21:28, sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Friends, The disadvantage I see in going for litigation is that this can drag on for any length of time and our 95% payment which is already with Spaze will remain blocked. Those who are paying rent as well as loan installments will have added disadvantage. It may perhaps be better option to negotiate for part payment and release the balance payment on receipt of OC. We can meet and discuss on Saturday.

Punj

On Thursday, January 9, 2014, Manish Jindal wrote:

I am for it.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Ajay Kumar Tyagi <byaja...@gmail.com> wrote:

I request you to be united for legal action.

 

Pl vote for it.

 

 

From: Privys...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Privys...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sandeep Arora
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 1:59 PM
To: Privys...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Privy Sector 72] Permissive Possession

In my humble opinion, a legal notice is the best way forward if everyone wants to fight it united...

Legal action now has the following advantages and disadvantages over legal action after taking possession:

Adv:

1) Spaze will not get the money they have demanded for tower F,G,H and will prevent them from sending letters to others. If we can get a stay order their attitude will have to change...

2) Having not received the money they will have a high incentive to a) push for OC and b) give possession when the flats/facilities are in better shape

3)Innumerable issues related to early/permissive  possession will be avoided and will be in the best interests of ALL the buyers

4) Spaze is playing on buyers' fear (especially tower F,G,H) right now with established due dates for balance payments (and allowing some people to deffer with provisions that ultimately favor Spaze) - they are using divide and rule policy. The buyers group can be united by taking a common stand and it will provide a stronger position to buyers to renegotiate.

 

5) I believe that Spaze wants to avoid hassles (including further delays) in this project and will be more than eager to negotiate, once they see a united response.

DisAdv:

1) Folks who have taken loans will likely have added problems with lenders (i.e. banks) etc.

2) They will have to continue paying the monthly rentals that they might be paying right now.

Best Regards,
Sandeep Arora

 

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Manish Jindal <manishj...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Friends,
I don't think there will be any response from Spaze till we keep making payments, either full or partial. Until proper justification is provided and approval taken from owners, there is no reason for continuing making any payment over and above the agreed one in buyer's agreement.
Just my humble opinion with whatever experience I have with real estate companies.

-Manish

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

From: sarv punj <sarv...@gmail.com>

Sender: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:35:53 +0530

To: Privys...@googlegroups.com<Privys...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: Privys...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [Privy Sector 72] Permissive Possession

 

Dear friends,

Looks our fight with Spaze over 10% increase in Super Area and other issues has reached a lull. I was only wondering as to whether Spaze can force us to take possession without OC? Can we not jointly take a stand that No Possession without OC? If for any reasons the members decide to take the so called Permissive Possession, it should not be on Spaze's terms only. We can at least insist that we shall pay 50% now and balance on actual possession? meanwhile we may continue our struggle regarding super area and other issues. During my recent visit to my apartment , I find that a lot of work is still pending. I also notice that plaster just under the kitchen counter was peeling off just by touch of my hand. Many facilities are not yet ready. So we are within our right to hold part payment till everything is sorted out to our satisfaction. I don't think we can handle these issues independently. A joint effort will be necessary to make Spaze agree to our point of view. I don't know if we are having a meeting with Spaze coming Saturday. Kindly inform if any member has a clue. Thanks.

Punj

 

[sarv punj]

Mr Sanjay, I Checked with Gautam who said that Mr.Vivek has verbally agreed to give time extension to the limited group who had submitted an application. A meeting is perhaps proposed tomorrow and Mr. Gautam is expected to confirm the time.

Punj

[Rishi Gosain]

To All Dears,Pl sign on Skype,Facebook & Google Hangout,then with wifi access we can all talk face to face at no charge.let us sign the whole group. My Skype name is gosain.rishi1...Let us sign up as friends and one of us in IT can take a lead...Rishi Gosain.

--

[Vikas Tandon]

i can setup a google hangout for 11:30 AM India time. Rishi i have got your gmail id, others who would like to  join, please do let me know your gmail ids.

regards,

Vikas Tandon

--
Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Chawla Umesh]

umesh....@gmail.com

Best Regards,
UMEsh Chawla | +91 8861 907 397 | sKype chawla.umesh

[Vikas Tandon]

i have scheduled a hangout event for 11 AM India time on saturday - invited umesh and rishi till now. others who  would like to participate remotely please let me know.

Also would request someone who can help us connect from the meeting site to share their id so that i can add to the google hangout invite. this way people can join remotely in the meeting.

Regards,

Vikas Tandon

[Vikas Tandon]

hi fellow spaze owners,

can any of you connect us to the meeting via google hangout? Umesh and me are available. can also call you for a conference call during your meeting.

regards,

Vikas Tandon

--
Regards,
Vikas Tandon

[Amit Chhabra]

Hi Gautam,
Can you share the meeting notes from yesterday's meeting with Vivek?

Regds,
Amit

Sent from my iPad