Vw Engine Conversion

[Cecelia Seiner]

Ispoke with Bob Minnis today regarding TSIO-360 engine model conversions. Bob is a DER and the original Continental engineer that put the TSIO-360-GB into the J for Mooney creating the K. He was able to send me this service bulletin. My understanding is this service bulletin allows you to upgrade engine models with a log book sign off. See what you think. I'm thinking on upgrading my TSIO-360-LB to a TSIO-360-SB.

While you might be able to convert your engine that simply, that does not authorize you to fly your 231 with the converted engine. That is the 220 hp variant that Mooney certified for use in the Encore, or 252 models that are fully converted to the Encore configuration. My understanding is that 231 models are not eligible for the conversion. You would have to get an STC from the FAA to use the -SB on a 231.

I'll do some more digging. If I read that service bulletin, it looks like going from an LB to SB is legal. The base engine is the same. The major differences are the turbo, aftercooler addition, and tuned runner intake manifold and throttle. Thanks for the response.

The SB allows conversion from one engine model to another, but you still need an approval for the engine to be installed in your serial number. As an example RAM Aircraft converts a GTSIO 520L to a GTSIO 520N for installation in different serial numbers of Cessna421, based on the type certificate.

Regardless though, I used the M75-6R1 to update the data tag on mine when I converted it from a MB-SB - no problem. But Continental provides a parts list, in the form of a kit part # years ago. It gives the detailed list of parts to convert the MB to SB. But to my knowledge they never did that for the LB to MB. The LB has a lot differences from the MB that aren't limited to bolt on accessories - I am not at all sure it possible without a full overhaul.

But you'll still need approved data or an STC to put the MB or SB in a 231 since the old Mod works STC is no longer available. You could perhaps hire a DER willing to develop you a one time STC but it will probably be cheaper and faster to sell the 231 and upgrade to a 252 or Encore airframe.

Thanks Paul, I pulled the PN's from Continental and have developed the upfit kit part number list. There are more components change (turbo adapter, fuel lines, etc.), it's a fairly extensive list. From my comparison the base engines are the same. I talked with Bob Minnis today on it and confirmed the base engine is the same. I'll work it some more before I make a decision. You're likely right on getting a 252 but I'd have a hard time getting rid of the 231. I've spent the last year going over the 231 from head to toe.

Thanks for the note and I appreciate the feedback. My buddy was the original application engineer for Continental on the 231 and 252 and is a DER with the FAA. He thinks it can be done. I'm going to dig into it more and see. Either way, he is able to sign it off. His point was we're not swinging an engine, we are upfitting an LB to an SB as described in point 1. of the service bulletin. I have 80% of the parts to complete the conversion so I'm going to dig into it further. I'll share what I find out.

I do have a couple of giant American cars with giant v8's. I guess it depends on who is doing the work. I build race car engines on the side, have designed and developed diesel engines for 33 years. It's not that big of deal, approval is though. I already have 80% of the parts and an A&P/IA buddy so it's doable for me.

This is a forever plane for me. I've spent the last year going through it, I don't want to do that again!

From what I was told the 252/Encore cowl mold was lost in one of the Mooney shutdowns. It was at an outside vendors location since the Encore cowl was Carbon fiber and that business closed and liquidated during the shutdown.

The biggest piece is finding the NACA duct feeding cooling air to the aftercooler. I believe the duct can be attached to the existing cowling and then cut the appropriate hole in the outer surface. There are two aftermarket STC offerings that attach the duct to the existing cowling. I'll have to look them up, can't remember now. Thanks for the feedback A.

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I think the error could come from how decimals vs integers are stored (float vs integers). Even if the values are effectively the same, there's clearly some conversion going on changing 1077.0 to 1077.

I would suggest reviewing the Conversion Error messages to see if anything unexpected is happening (you can copy the message text out and parse it, or enable a logging directory in your system settings). If everything is coming out as expected, then maybe limit the conversion error messages in the Runtime settings and move on.

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The following page shows what I went through to convert a 1965 aircooled Corvair engine into an experimental aircraft engine. I plan to install it on my Zenith 601XL, but I bought the engine cores long before I decided on that aircraft. Since experimental aircraft are one of my hobbies, I knew I would eventually need it. Being able to understand that a large part of the cost of a new certified engine has to do with legal expenses and lack of economies of scale, I've always been partial to auto conversions. It's a price driven decision.

It's a pretty common aircraft engine conversion. It was original made by GM, the parts are inexpensive and still available, it's a aircooled six cylinder engine that produces about the right amount of horsepower for a sport aircraft so it's a pretty good choice.

I guess I could start off with some liability statement... there is an inherent danger to experimental aircraft, what I do is not what I recommend you do, buyer beware, you get what you pay for, etc. Also, I am not in anyway affiliated with any other company selling or handing out expertise, parts, or advice and I'm not making any recommendation for or against any item by showing it here. This is just a record of what I have done and although I may make suggestions, I am in no way providing a guarantee or acceptance of your liability.

Also, I do have to tip my hat to those who have come before me and have been kind enough to share their experiences and lessons learned. Thanks to all and specifically to William Wynne and Mark Langford.

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