Green Party star system - Astroturfing or legit grass roots?

[Tommy Fergusson]

I've seen it being discussed in different places, most recently here: (mainly in the comments)

http://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/l3vdd/green_party_astroturfing_rnewzealand/

Given that most of our ideas are about ways information spreads, what do different pirates think of the situation? (note: i'm talking in social/moral terms here, not legal etc.)

Also, is there anyone who can shed more light on how the star system actually works? who awards them and what can you do with them?

I will keep my personal view quiet until some other people have said what they think.

Pervach

p.s. Since Thursday night, PPNZ is officially endorsing Gareth Hughes as candidate for Ohariu (and Clare Curran as candidate for Dunedin South)

[Peter Ajamian]

On 08/10/11 16:27, Tommy Fergusson wrote:
> I've seen it being discussed in different places, most recently here:
> (mainly in the comments)
> http://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/l3vdd/green_party_astroturfing_rnewzealand/
>
> Given that most of our ideas are about ways information spreads, what do
> different pirates think of the situation? (note: i'm talking in
> social/moral terms here, not legal etc.)
>
> Also, is there anyone who can shed more light on how the star system
> actually works? who awards them and what can you do with them?
>
> I will keep my personal view quiet until some other people have said
> what they think.

I think that Gareth Hughes puts it well in his comment on the post.
This technically is not astroturfing, imo, and it is fine for an
organization to encourage it's members to comment on various websites,
as long as the comments come from real people, reflect real sentiments
and are real (read not cut and paste) comments. The point system is a
bit disingenuous though, people should be incentivised to post based on
their own passions, not on some system that gives them brownie points.
I'm glad that Gareth says he will look into the points system.

Peter

[James C]

On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 16:27 +1300, Tommy Fergusson wrote:
> I've seen it being discussed in different places, most recently here:
> (mainly in the comments)
> http://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/l3vdd/green_party_astroturfing_rnewzealand/
>
>
> Given that most of our ideas are about ways information spreads, what
> do different pirates think of the situation? (note: i'm talking in
> social/moral terms here, not legal etc.)

Sounds like it was poorly thought through. I can't imagine that anyone
who thought about it properly would have believed it would stay secret,
or that it would be well received when it was discovered. Pointing
people to relevant discussions and asking them to contribute isn't
perhaps a biggie in itself, I think. Organisations suggesting letter
writing campaigns isn't uncommon or particularly dubious, as long as
there's no attempt to hide that they're doing it, it's a matter of
encouraging people to express their beliefs so they get heard, and I'm
not sure pointing people to discussions is too far off that. Like
Peter, I think it's perhaps largely the points system that makes it
really questionable. I guess I can kind of imagine someone thinking
"oh, wouldn't it be a good idea to recognise the people who get the word
out there... I'll go write a script for that..."

OTOH, I voted Green at the last election. If it was the right doing it,
I could well be fuming right now, and saying "those bastards!". :-D

[Andrew McPherson]

As a former member of the greens, I'm not surprised that they would seek to reward people for the quantity of their party posting than their quality of posting.
This is typical of green ideology, that it doesn't matter what is said, so long as enough people say it. A lie is a lie, no matter how many believe it. The truth is always the truth, regardless.

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[Tommy Fergusson]

pj and james have basically explained my opinion - a notification service to allow your people to engage/spam: good, grassroots. Providing "suggested comments" to make it easier: good, grassroots. A reward system for people who engage/spam for you: bad, astroturfing.

Re pj: he only said he was looking into people cut and pasting "suggested comments", nothing about the fact people get rewarded for spamming.

[Hubat McJuhes]

Hi all,

if the greens alert system would spit out tweets it would be the most
common thing. It is not done that way and instead sends out alterting
e-mails to the subscribers which is basicly the same thing but probably
considered more convenient or easier or what the hack. From a
social/moral point of view it is effectively the same thing. No big deal.

Then there is a particular community not being happy about that. Fair
enough. There is an immediate response of the person responsible for the
'green machine' and the alert system, explaining what they are doing.
(Which includes a statement that the star system is not directly related
to comenting based on the alert system.) Also indicating to put the
matter on the agenda of those responsible on Monday aiming at taking the
monitoring of that particular community down.

I think, what the greens do here is not super-duper beautiful, but fully
acceptable. Their reactions to the critism have been appropriate so far,
but not far reaching enough. Even though it is not wrong (morally) it
would be stupid (strategically) to not stop the monitoring for reddit on
Monday the latest.

Anyway, there is no hook for pirates to join into a flame war in this
matter. Any LIKE-button anywhere in the internet should be much more of
a concern than some RSS feeds the greens find particularly interesting.
Facebook is evil, not the greens.

Cheers,
Hubat

[Lukas Korsika]

I don't have much to add, but would like to chime in by saying that I
agree that:

Feeds/emails alerting them of mentions of the Green Party: A-OKAY
Star System to reward people for posting/clearing up
misunderstandings: On pretty shaky ground.

Regards,
Lukas Korsika

[Tommy Fergusson]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 4:59 PM, Peter Ajamian <p...@pirateparty.org.nz> wrote:

Gareth says he will look into the points system.

NEK MINIT

I believe is cause and effect. Credit where credit is due.

Still hazy on quite how the star system works.

Pervach