PowerBuilder 7 Instability on ALL Windows platforms
Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA
Issues surrounding PowerBuilder 7.x
1. Loses its layout regularly for no apparent reason.
2. Throws scripts away of functions or events.
3. Places scripts in events not selected at time of programming.
4. At times script works through debugger and not during test/runtime even after
rebuilding or optimizing. (Even migration doesn’t resolve this).
5. Datawindow crashes at random.
6. Composite datawindow throws away internally passed arguments at random.
7. Sometimes shows displayed JPG files in design mode at runtime freaks out.
8. Sometimes reverts back to previous code (Maybe related to 2).
9. After a crash it forces a migration. Periodically at this stage it throws
away objects. It reports that it has found an object, which has no code and
will delete the object, and then it does. This object had code before the crash.
10. Consumes volumes of RAM.
11. Randomly reports invalid objects, which have been there for ages. After
exiting and re-running the application it doesn’t complain (Maybe related
to 10).
12. After attempting to re-create “errors” reported it is found that
there is no apparent reason for the “error”, but after numerous
attempts it eventually gives an error as if certain lines of code are suddenly
being ignored.
13. After numerous crashes you are forced to re-boot your PC to continue working
(See 10), and then it sometimes corrupts the PBL’s.
14. It would seem that PowerBuilder doesn’t re-lease the RAM after loading
and unloading datawindows
If so, please respond to this as we have been informed by Sybase SA that we are
the ONLY ones experiencing this problem; which means that if you had this
problem or similar then you can assist us as Sybase can't).
Sybase SA informs us that all the errors logged on this news group HAVE been
resolved. We have been unsuccesfull in finding the solutions placed in response
to the listings. Please forward all responses/solutions/queries to
alb...@sybase.co.za indicating the Powerbuilder version and patch for 7 and the
operating system(s).
We have experienced the above problems on ALL vesrions of PowerBuilder 7.02
using Windows 9x and Windows NT 4 service pack 6 on a Novell network using
Sybase ASE 11.9.2 with latest patch and ASA 6.0.3.
All assistance will be appreciated.
kwil...@mf.co.za, mto...@mf.co.za
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Andreas Holz
simple question- which build are you running?
PB703 build 10009 is quite stable!
Andreas
Andrew Camfield
Very similar to 4,10,11,12,13,14. We had just moved up to build 10047 of 7.03.
After numerous complete rebuilds we got most of the stuff working again.
Exception being OLE Automation. Throws memory away until app crashes. You can
watch it through TaskManager.
As far as losing code, I think PB has always had a problem with when it actually
saves your changes. I've clicked on the save button in 7.03 and run the app in
the IDE and it crashes taking down the IDE and when you bring everything back
up, your changes are gone. Sooooo, I would assume that the changes where never
really saved!
I've told my boss that I believe this version of PB, 7.03 Build 10047 has at
least one serious memory leak. She says she will contact Sybase, but in 3 or 4
years of dealing with Sybase about PB, she says Sybase has never answered a
single question that she has contacted them about. So, she feels it is a waste
of time.
I've seen some postings from people who are not officially associated with
Sybase saying that they've been told by Sybase to roll PB back to 10009. That
doesn't help us becuase we moved up to solve a problem that existed in that
version. But that may be the "all questions have been answered" thing that
Sybase is telling you.
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:11:43 -0500,
in powersoft.public.powerbuilder.general
Wendell Rios
Surely, ALL problemas aren't solved! I'm working with 10047 build, but I
still get:
1. Loose of extender script's flag
2. Randomic slow performance on painters ( save and open )
3. Explicit need to issue a RETURN statement in all events that I modify
4. Database connection failure not detected after a CONNECT statement
SQLCode = 0 )
5. Recently, several object corruptions in my applications
6. Not threading in PB components deployed to MTS
7. Accented latin characters ( like "á", "ú" ) returning incorrectly from
generated PB COM objects.
And it's not the complete list, is just what I remember now..
I have some cases opened, but I don't have technical support contract, so I
believe that they will not be solved. Including, I recently asked my local
Sybase representative about opening a isolated case, since I don't need a
anual thecnical contract. She answers that costs U$ 250, I will not have
warranties of solution, and I will not receive a build, just a workaround...
It's not support, it's a joke. U$ 250 for providing a workaround.. I already
have my own workarounds.
PS: I will go back to 8046 today.. It was more stable.
"Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA" <kwil...@mf.co.za> wrote in message
news:VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
dkf
PB7 is broken!!!
:(((((
I use for 4 years PB5 (5.0.4) and I not have all this problem. It was very
stable and productivity........I think that PB7 is not a true enterprise
development environment too. I'm very afraid.
:(((((
Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA <kwil...@mf.co.za> wrote in message
VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
Lost in Space
On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 05:11:43 -0500,
in powersoft.public.powerbuilder.general
Tim Nesham
How big is your application? I'd be happy to assist you with resolving
these problems. Can I get source?
Many problems exist but if there is a perfect tool out there I'd like to
hear about it.
1. Layout - PB7 does take some getting used to. It's easy to change the
layout but also to save the layout and revert back to the saved layout.
2. I used to see this happen if I add object functions to NVOs by doing a
saveas method in the object. Then change the code and repeat the exercise.
Poof, code gone from first method. A couple hours work gone. I figured out
that I was not SAVING before I go to save and work on another method.
3. Clarify that?
4. This can happen because of timing issues in windows. The debugger
influences event timing. You probably need to rewrite the code such as
"posting" code from the itemchanged event.
5. Can you be specific? What is a crash? Any errors.
Well let's start there.
Thanks,
Tim
"Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA" <kwil...@mf.co.za> wrote in message
news:VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
kc
You paid for a buggy product...
You paid again to have bug fixed...
old bug fixed and new bug (regression) come....
Infinitely.........
Oops...
"Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA" <kwil...@mf.co.za> ?????
news:VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
Simon Caldwell
Some of them sound like they could be optimisation issues - have you
optimised your PBLs lately?
--
Simon Caldwell
Get Real Systems Ltd
Holtby Manor, Stamford Bridge Road, York, YO19 5LL
Tel 01904 481999 Fax 01904 481666
Visit us at www.getrealsystems.com
Specialists in e-Procurement and supply chain technology
"Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA" <kwil...@mf.co.za> wrote in message
news:VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
Steve Van Dyke
One suggestion which won't solve many of your problems is never open a
datawindow by right-clicking on it in the window painter. I mean, NEVER.
Sybase has moved to "maintain only" at our company and will be killed off in
our company as our users require new features in their PB apps. "NO NEW
DEVELOPMENT IN PB." I wonder if legally we can sell some of our 50+
licenses of Enterprise? Put a fork in them, they're done. Dealt with
Sybase support for too many years. Actually had an annual contract. Makes
no difference. Some rookie maybe college grad wannabe who is in learning
mode answers the initial call and if you have vast experience in PB he's
looking in the database for hits.... duh, you've already done that. And
they always tell you you're the only one... nobody else has saved an object
and lost code. You're the only one that gets thrown out of PB... poof...
dissappears without a GPF, like it was never there to start with.
I have a secret for you: Sybase won't change. PB is becoming so tied to
Jag and doesn't integrate well with other transaction servers or new
utilities. Here's another secret: They aren't Microsoft. They can't bully
their way into a corporation by closing their products. Ever try
integrating PB objects on MTS on a large scale? Not much success, if any.
Their sample application didn't even work and Sybase admitted to me they
know it is a problem, and it won't get fixed because if it ain't a Jag
problem, it ain't a priority. So if you want to keep doing fat client PB,
the tool may live a while in maintenance mode in our company. But we aren't
going with Sybase's big picture. Been burned there too many times. Case in
point, another person like me who is told he's the only one.
Don't get me wrong, there is no perfect platform. Better to know and use a
variety of platforms to get the job done right. PB will be at our company
for many years yet. We finally killed off FoxPro 2.5 for Windows a few
weeks ago. Why did it take so long? Because it was working fine for so
long and didn't need replacement. But like FoxPro, we won't be doing any
new development in PB. Been there, done that, received many free tee-shirts
at the conferences, and moving on.
Cheesed Off BIG TIME at Sybase SA <kwil...@mf.co.za> wrote in message
news:VZ1$oG4sA...@forums.sybase.com...
Jacek Furmankiewicz
PB is a goner. It's too proprietary and Sybase (unlike M$) is not powerful
enough to make lock-in
a viable sell to management.
It kills me that they fail to see that.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacek Furmankiewicz
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Steve Van Dyke" <dyker_d...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:89mpvm5...@forums.sybase.com...
Simon Caldwell
programmers, but PB is too complicated (ie powerful) for them to understand.
So we're ending up writing Enterprise solutions in VB/MTS. Very sad, but
very common I suspect - as the old truism goes, no-one ever got sacked for
choosing Microsoft.
Still not as bad as my last company (a major multinational) which changed
from Oracle to MSSQL because one of the Oracle salesmen was rude to the
company's IT director.
S.
--
Simon Caldwell
Get Real Systems Ltd
Holtby Manor, Stamford Bridge Road, York, YO19 5LL
Tel 01904 481999 Fax 01904 481666
Visit us at www.getrealsystems.com
Specialists in e-Procurement and supply chain technology
"Jacek Furmankiewicz" <jfurman...@stssystems.com> wrote in message
news:adXRqC6...@forums.sybase.com...
Jacek Furmankiewicz
not via EAServer)
and then it might still have a good future.
We have two competing visions of computing shaping up: J2EE and .Net.
Imagine if Sybase has the vision
to enhance PB to be the only language that you could write in that could
deploy to both (for example, there is an implementation of the Python
programming language both for the JVM and the .Net runtime, so there is
proof that it can be done).
We could see a resurgence yet, but it requires Sybase to refine it's vision
from "let's gather everything around EAServer", which is a losing vision in
the long term to something a bit more cutting edge to get us excited again.
So far the Java space seems to be where all the cutting-edge programming
stuff is happening.
Although right now I am willing to settle getting excited about PB 8 not
corrupting my scripts anymore like its predecessor (the first time PB7
magically deleted one of my overloaded functions I screamed...nearly).
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacek Furmankiewicz
STS Systems - http://www.stssystems.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
<Tyler...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yf0mS4G...@forums.sybase.com...
> PB 7.xx has instability in the build environment, this is a know issue.
> The stability of the completed product, however, has been/is excellent.
> So, would you prefer an IDE builder that is rock solid and resultant
output
> that is not stable ?
> Having both VB6 and PB7 programs in our application suite, the VB is 1/10
of
> the application and generates 1/2 of the problems that are the result of
the
> runtime. Part of the reason is that there are so many interactions with
> .dll files from different sources used in VB applications.
>
> Also consider the effort required to go from PB7 to PB8 ( very little )
> compared to the effort from VB6 to VB.NET (re-write)
>
> I think that you will find there are multiple solutions for most
programming
> problems. PB is the best for some sub-set. VB is also best for some
> sub-set. The choice must include many things, one of them is "Total Cost
of
> Ownership". In my case PB/Windows W2K/SQL Server 2000 has been a good
> (best) solution.
>
> My point is to not throw the "baby out with the bath water"
>
> "Simon Caldwell" <simonDOTcaldwellATgetrealsystemsDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:aH9T6FD...@forums.sybase.com...
Tyler...@hotmail.com
The stability of the completed product, however, has been/is excellent.
So, would you prefer an IDE builder that is rock solid and resultant output
that is not stable ?
Having both VB6 and PB7 programs in our application suite, the VB is 1/10 of
the application and generates 1/2 of the problems that are the result of the
runtime. Part of the reason is that there are so many interactions with
.dll files from different sources used in VB applications.
Also consider the effort required to go from PB7 to PB8 ( very little )
compared to the effort from VB6 to VB.NET (re-write)
I think that you will find there are multiple solutions for most programming
problems. PB is the best for some sub-set. VB is also best for some
sub-set. The choice must include many things, one of them is "Total Cost of
Ownership". In my case PB/Windows W2K/SQL Server 2000 has been a good
(best) solution.
My point is to not throw the "baby out with the bath water"
"Simon Caldwell" <simonDOTcaldwellATgetrealsystemsDOTcom> wrote in message
news:aH9T6FD...@forums.sybase.com...
Simon Caldwell
--
Simon Caldwell
Get Real Systems Ltd
Holtby Manor, Stamford Bridge Road, York, YO19 5LL
Tel 01904 481999 Fax 01904 481666
Visit us at www.getrealsystems.com
Specialists in e-Procurement and supply chain technology
<Tyler...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yf0mS4G...@forums.sybase.com...
Andrew Camfield
with authority on this because I've been programming professionally in VB since
August of 1991. I believe VB was first released in the Spring of that year.
As to the list of problems that started this thread: I searched the Sybase
Technical Documents site and found doc id 44563 which has to do with using PB's
programming environment over a network. The list of problems that can be caused
by not regularly reoptimizing and regenerating your pbls and pbds is very
similar to the list of problems attributed to PB 7. The release date on that
document was February 12, 1997, I believe.
I agree that we've had some problems that probably came from our recent upgrade
to PB 7, but I am now fairly convinced that some if not the majority of these
problems had to do with the lax habits that our consultants had fallen into.
These consultants had pretty much stopped optimizing the pbl's and seemed to
only regenerate if they couldn't get an object to open any other way. We're
looking into purchasing PowerGen to automate this process in order to avoid this
in the future.
As to Visual Basic: don't get me started. One project comes to mind: I worked on
a project that was supposed to last 18 months to 2 years. 9 months into the
project the MS SQL DBA had still not created tables for the vb programmers to
test against and we were told to just make some stuff up using access or
whatever. I know that this wasn't really vb's fault, but I think it shows the
kind of lack of discipline that exists in many vb programmers and which vb
fosters. Microsfties likes to say that many of its products are more forgiving
meaning they will let you get away with things that other languages and
environments would see as an error. When I came to PB 6.5, I didn't like the
interface, but I was impressed with its integration with the database.
As to no one ever getting fired for going with Microsoft, that's what they used
to say about IBM. I've also heard it said of doing business with MS that it's
like getting into bed with a giant. You won't get much rest, because you know
that they can roll over on you and crush you at any time. And while you may not
see the connection, using OLE automation ties you to Microsoft just as surely as
if you were using VB6 to develop your applications. That's something that we
should all discourage at every opportunity.
Thanks,
Andy C.
On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:46:03 +0100,
in powersoft.public.powerbuilder.general
Simon Caldwell <simonDOTcaldwellATgetrealsystemsDOTcom> wrote:
>I agree fully - I just wish our management could see that!
>
>--
>Simon Caldwell
>Get Real Systems Ltd
>Holtby Manor, Stamford Bridge Road, York, YO19 5LL
>Tel 01904 481999 Fax 01904 481666
>Visit us at www.getrealsystems.com
>
>SNIP<