Is anyone happy with Sybase support
Andrew Powell
had to pay Sybase to recognize their own error. I have the pay as you
go support agreement, but that should be for my errors, and NOT THEIR
PRODUCT ERRORS. I offered to pay for the call if it was in fact an
error on my part. But on principle, I will not pay for them to beta
test their product.
It may be my misunderstanding, but if a product advertises that it does
a particular thing, then it should do it. I understand that there are a
myriad of installiation problems and issues with any software, but if a
person who has used, installed, become certified, and recommend a
product can not get basic functionality errors resolved, then I think
there is a problem with the products support.
I was told to post the issue here and wait for a resolution to be
posted. I thought what if I did that to my customers. Customers who
paid thousands of dollars for products over the years, and who are
advocates of my product. What if I told them they had to pay again for
something that should have worked the first time. I would run out of
customers.
I guess I feel that Sybase is putting the burden of error resolution
onto me. I have to do the work of finding the error, recognizing it as
a true error, and documenting it. Maybe this is a strategy for Sybase
to have its products tested for free. Does anyone else think that this
is a silly way of getting results. Should we ask Sybase for their
credit card number when we call support, after all we are doing them the
favor.
Thanks for listening to my greef!
Andrew Powell
CPD PRO
Doug
The short answer is that I think they are slipping, but I also sense
that Sybase is listening.
I understand your frustration, and I feel that Sybase should be working
harder to make sure our projects are successful. I am grateful that
PowerBuilder removes some of the tedious parts of Windows programming
for me, but I am not happy about the PB gotchas that lurk around every
update corner. It gets really hard to make solid progress on a project,
and at the moment I am just clinging to what seems like the most stable
6+ release: PB 6.0.01 beta 2, build 444. Anything else has a lot of
complaints posted. After a while, it is hard to tell which problems are
my coding flaws and which are the result of the latest PB patch.
Late last year, I had a problem with a PFC app migration from 5-> 6 that
forced me to call tech support. I don't know if the policy is the same
now as it was then, but I was asked for my credit card number. I was
told that if the problem turned out to be a PowerBuilder bug, I would
not be charged for the issue. It was a PB problem, so I didn't get
charged.
Your support experience sounds like it may have been different than
mine, and I am hoping the policy has not changed. Did they agree you
wouldn't be charged if it was a PB bug? (Your message said that you had
offered that agreement, and they simply told you to post.)
These are some simple things that I think would help remove some of the
frustration for everyone:
-- A concise list of bugs. It is not enough to have customer issues in
the InfoBase, because you often need to know what the problem is before
you can find it. (Until I could isolate that a global n_cst_string
variable was causing bad conversion karma, no one could not find the
issue in the InfoBase, not even tech support. At that point, I knew I
had a known bug that I spent weeks trying to find--not a good outcome.
It might have been more comforting to think the bug was unknown until I
found it!) The TechBulletins seem to be a good start, but it would be
great if they were more concise. Maybe I just don't know how to use it,
but it feels like I still needed to know what the problem is before I
could find it.
-- EBF (Emergency Bug Fixes?) ought to be published for everyone to
download. As I understand it, a developer needs to call Sybase to
demonstrate the need for the fix before getting the EBF number for the
support page. I see the need to keep a lid on little PB fixes running
rampant among the customer base, but sometimes the bug is a showstopper
and the untested fix is the only hope. Let me get to it easily if I
want it and the risk that goes with it.
-- People keep posting about the 6 month maintenance release schedule.
That is a long time to keep someone waiting for fixes. Perhaps an
effort to speed up the first maintenance release is in order, to tackle
the most annoying bugs.
-- Product planning needs some attention. When 6.0.01 beta 2 looked
like it was never going to production, I called Customer Support and was
told I would need to pay to upgrade to 6.5 to get the fixes that should
have been in the production 6.0.01 release. A little peeved, I called
another Customer Service person and was finally told there were two
6.5s: the maintenance release formerly known as 6.0.01, now 6.5 MINOR
and available from the web; and the new version, known as 6.5 MAJOR with
additional web features added in. Isn't there enough confusion
already? When Sybase customer service people are not even fully up to
speed on all of this chaos, what hope do the rest of us have of sorting
things out?
-- And it never helps when it appears that Sybase is working hard to get
6.5 MAJOR out in the time for the conference at the expense of the
developers who need the 6.0.01 release. That was the picture I was
getting from all of the delays.
On the plus side, I have been solicited by e-mail and phone from Sybase
for feedback on the quality of their service, so I didn't need to spend
any time thinking up this response. Sybase appears to be hearing the
grumblings, and I hope they are working hard to get things back in
shape.
Because at the end of the week, I need to be able to justify to
management that paying thousands of dollars for Sybase and PowerSoft
software was a good decision, and that Sybase is there to support our
development. I need to be able to calm their fears about choosing
non-Microsoft products, and reaffirm that the program will work and it
will be reliable. But I always feel better when I can back those
comments up by showing real progress instead of time sunk into finding
work-arounds for arbitrary flaws.
Sincerely,
Doug
Doug
Terry Dykstra [TeamPS]
understand correctly, you are no longer required to pay to submit bugs.
--
Terry Dykstra [TeamPS]
Canadian Forest Oil Ltd.
Doug wrote in message <35FEBB2B...@concentric.net>...
jizz...@spam.com
stupid you even managed to post the same message twice. Criminy! Go
back to COBOL or something.
Love,
Jizz Lips.
On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:08:27 -0700, Doug <wil...@concentric.net>
wrote:
Jim Egan
code they could run to replicate the problem. Today I received a call back
from Tech Support for further clarification. They called back an hour
later to say that the developers said, "that's the way it's supposed to
work." I convinced them otherwise and they did end up entering it in the
queue as a bug. Oh, and there was no charge.
I don't know that Sybase is all that much different than other vendors. I
logged a bug with Shiva. They make dialin/dialout hardware/software. I
had done days of testing, I had reams of data from an ethernet protocol
analyzer. I know they had a bug in their software somewhere. They took my
$150 and said thanks, but it's not a bug.
--
Jim Egan [TeamPS]
Houston, TX
Andrew Powell <and...@paisleysoft.com> wrote in article
<35FE768B...@paisleysoft.com>...
Angela Swisher Kim
regarding Sybase support and the planned changes in their current policy.
I am in agreement that their support is lacking. It appears that the
Technical Bulletins have not been updated in a while as they still do NOT
reference PB 6.5. I have sent several e-mails requesting that this be
updated. I did get a response on Monday that they would be updated that
day and that I would be sent an e-mail when it was updated. Two days
later, I still have not heard from Sybase and the Technical Bulletins are
not updated. It is very difficult for me to recommend that the developers
within my organization move to PB 6.5 when I am unable to get any
information about what bugs might be included in this release. I have
seen several things mentioned in the various news groups, but it would be
nice to see a response from Sybase regarding these items and what is being
done.
Jim Dolan wrote:
> Dear Sybase Customer:
>
> This message is a follow-up to our last newsgroup posting regarding
> Sybase's bug reporting process and support policies. This message is
> of particular importance to Sybase customers who have not purchased
> one of our annual, contact-based support plans such as our Custom
> Support or Access Support.
>
> Once again, we would like to thank you for sharing your concerns with
> us regarding our bug reporting process and support policies. We want
> you to know that we have continued to read the various newsgroup
> threads, we have spoken and communicated to many of you
> directly and we understand your concerns.
>
> In order to serve you better, Sybase, is constantly analyzing our
> current processes, benchmarking Sybase relative to other companies,
> surveying our customers and in general seeking to be best in class in
> everything we do.
>
> Based on your feedback and our ongoing research and analysis, we have
> decided to make the following changes in our Electronic Support
> offerings:
>
> Upon electronic submission of a bug, Sybase will provide customers
> with a tracking number.
>
> Sybase will allow you to come back and check the status of a
> previously electronically-submitted bug, (via the Web only), to
> determine if your submission has been accepted, rejected or closed.
>
> We believe that our Web Site, support.sybase.com, is the best in the
> industry and we will continuously improve it to make it even easier
> for you to locate a list of known bugs and download patches.
>
> If a your electronic bug submssion results in Sybase generating a fix,
> Sybase will send an Email to anyone who has reported that specific
> bug.
>
> We are also investigating ways of incenting customers to report bugs
> to us. One example might be that if your electronic bug submission
> results in Sybase generating a fix, we will give you one free case
> good towards calling Technical Support.
>
> Please note that these changes will take some time to implement, but
> should be implemented by the end of 1998.
>
> Please also note that customers who are on an annual, contact-based
> support plan, can call Technical Support as often as necessary to
> receive technical assistance, report bugs/enhancement requests, find
> work-arounds etc. without incurring any additional fees. We will
> continue to offer technical assistance as well via Credit Card and
> Case-Pack support. All Credit Card calls to Technical Support are
> non-refundable and all case-pack plans will be decremented upon
> opening up a case with Technical Support. However, all customers can
> report bugs to Sybase free of charge via our electronic services
> options.
>
> We strongly believe that these new electronic support offerings will
> provide you with the medium of choice for reporting bugs and
> enhancement requests to Sybase.
>
> While Sybase has the best-in-class products in the market, we want to
> assure you that we appreciate receiving feedback from our customers,
> particularly when it comes to reporting bugs and hearing your thoughts
> on how we can improve our products and services.
>
> Please stay tuned for future announcements regarding our new Technical
> Support offerings especially our new "SupportNow" program which will
> be rolled out January 1st, 1999. These new support programs have been
> re-architected to accommodate all customers and all products and we
> believe that you will find the pricing of these programs to be
> extremely attractive.
>
> In the meantime, if you have more information or comments that you
> would like to share with us, please contact us directly by sending
> email to hma...@sybase.com.
>
> Thank you for your continued support.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Richard Labarbera
> Vice President & General Manager
> Worldwide Customer Services