https://www.space.com/rocket-exhaust-pollution-upper-atmosphere
Thinking about the impact of rocket launch on the upper atmosphere with the potential for a 100 fold increase in launch rates does horizontal launch offer an option? It appears limits may need to be imposed on launches that degrade the upper atmosphere.
Above the cloud layer laser power can be beamed to a launching space craft enabling low emission propulsion options to be considered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam-powered_propulsion
Ukraine had earlier planned to use the AN-225 for horizontal launch. It was designed to carry the Buran, a larger craft than the space shuttle. While Russian forces destroyed the Mriya when attacking Kyiv. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_(spacecraft)
Thermal barrier shields could be constructed from lunar basalt fiber and installed in orbit – concept proposed by Mike Turner. This would further reduce the launch weight of the spacecraft. The Space Review: Space resources: the broader aspect The shielding would be needed for reentry of spacecraft returning to Earth.
Vid Beldavs
--
One of THE MAJOR problems with HTHL (and Jess may confirm this) is that it limits the GTOW to what gears (takeoff speed and hence and runway lengths) can handle. It is approximately 1.5 Mlb GTOW (for 20K lb payload to LEO). There is no room for growth. Then why do this at all, and why not just go with VTVL or VTHL?
SKYLON SSTO is nonsense. It cannot be done. Physics. People NEED to do System Level Analysis to see the impacts of various components on a mission driven system (payload to LEO as e.g.) or use that in their inferences.
The attached paper was given at AIAA ISH conference in 2011. Approved for public release by AFRL.
And another thing.
The total propellant/fuel used today by rockets is less than 0.04% of what auto vehicles use and thus contribute to climate/CO2 issues.
Even with 3 flights a day by Starship (which I do not see happening for a decade at least or more). It would be less than 1.2%.
Best way to attack this FIRST is to do what Elon is doing. E-Vehicles. But that electricity has to come from nuclear or it is no go. Here Elon is wrong about putting the entire burden on battery storage.
And there it has to be Gen IV Thorium Molten Salt Reactors (or something as promising). Most everything else is a band-aid or pure hogwash.
-------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ajay P. Kothari
President
Astrox Corporation
AIAA Associate Fellow
Ph: 301-935-5868
Web: www.astrox.com
Email: a.p.k...@astrox.com
-------------------------------------------------------
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One of THE MAJOR problems with HTHL (and Jess may confirm this) is that it limits the GTOW to what gears (takeoff speed and hence and runway lengths) can handle. It is approximately 1.5 Mlb GTOW (for 20K lb payload to LEO). There is no room for growth. Then why do this at all, and why not just go with VTVL or VTHL?
SKYLON SSTO is nonsense. It cannot be done. Physics. People NEED to do System Level Analysis to see the impacts of various components on a mission driven system (payload to LEO as e.g.) or use that in their inferences.
The attached paper was given at AIAA ISH conference in 2011. Approved for public release by AFRL.
And another thing.
The total propellant/fuel used today by rockets is less than 0.04% of what auto vehicles use and thus contribute to climate/CO2 issues.
Even with 3 flights a day by Starship (which I do not see happening for a decade at least or more). It would be less than 1.2%.
Best way to attack this FIRST is to do what Elon is doing. E-Vehicles.
A note about rocket launch pollutants. In the mid 1960s, the USAF selected Vandenberg Air Force base, VAFB, an ICBM base, to construct a new launch pad SLC-6 built to launch rockets supporting the Manned Orbital Laboratory. Fast forward to the early 1970’s. As part of the overall STS launch facilities and operations support, USAF modified the original SLC-6 as the West Coast Space Shuttle STS launch site. SLC-6 was never used for MOL, and it was never used for STS. In fact, it remains an unanswered question why NASA and or USAF would even consider an eats-to-west launch option, albeit over water.
Eventually, MOL was abandoned, (my former father-in-law was Douglas’s chief MOL engineer). Getting to the point about launch pollution – for STS, one of the principal reasons it was never utilized, either for launch or for back up or emergency landing was political. Vandenberg is a bit over 100 miles northwest of Los Angeles. The STS program was initiated during an era when military and government operations of various kinds including weapons testing, ground battle operations and rocket launches were not closely scrutinized or regulated for environmental impacts., The EPA had just been established in 1970, and for the moist part, states and local jurisdictions exercised environmental supervision loosely if at all.
Adjoining VAFB to the southeast and east are the communities of Santa Barbara and Ojai. Rocket launches, both liquid and solid emit tons fo pollutants, among them raw hydrogen, raw oxygen, O, O2, O3, carbon soot, hydroxyls, hydrochloric acid, aluminum oxide, nitrogen oxide, etc. In the event of an STS launch and given prevailing winds, an STS launch would inundate these communities with tons of corrosive acids, edged granular and crystalline particulates and black soot sufficient to strip paint from vehicles and houses, render the air temporarily toxic, contaminate local drinking water reservoirs and kill or injure pets and gardens. These communities are second only in republican financial supporters for the then in power Reagan and other republican administrations. STS would never be launched form VAFB SLC-6
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No, Keith. You may have spent 100 hrs with Skylon excel but I have actually designed and built Skylon in Astrox code HySIDE which is not a spreadsheet. The code is much more complicated and also ITAR so I cannot discuss it here in detail.
I sent the results of Skylon trade study previously but apparently you have not looked at them.
From this paper:
SIDE/HySIDE SIDE© (System Integrated Design Environment) is a component building software; either from scratch or from existing components. The version for building components related to hypersonic vehicles (both airbreathers and rockets) is HySIDE©. Component parts are created first and vehicles and vehicle systems are assembled from components. Components are stored in directories as part of the HySIDE library. New systems can be built and saved. New directories can be built and can be added to the library. Components and directories can be deleted if no longer used. Tools for analysis, visualization and report creation are included. Variety of geometries can be created and are available for further detailed CFD analysis and CAD modeling Vehicles can be sized until “closed”. SIDE/HySIDE runs on Microsoft Windows based personal computers and workstations.
From our JSR paper(attached herewith):
Design Code
All vehicles in this design study have been configured with the
SpaceSIDE code developed by Astrox Corporation.1 The code is a
component-based object-oriented design package within a systems
engineering software environment. SpaceSIDE uses analytical solutions
and tabulated data as available rather than detailed computational
fluid dynamic solutions to be speedy and flexible while still
maintaining a high degree of accuracy. Use of the code’s rapid design
and analysis capabilities allows for the quick systematic comparison
of hundreds of design parameters and input cases.
To design a hypersonic vehicle, the code uses the freestream Mach
number and altitude at a chosen design point and specified bowshock
strength, from which the method of characteristics and streamline
tracing methods2 are used to form the inlet surface. After the trace,
the surface inviscid forces are known as is the inlet exit flow state.
A quasi-one-dimensional combustor model is used to model the
mixing and burning of hydrogen or hydrocarbon, and a combustor
surface is defined. The nozzle flowfield is then also created
using the method of characteristics. An external surface joins the
inlet capture area and nozzle exit. A reference temperature method
161 is then applied to determine the viscous forces, heat transfer, and
boundary-layer displacement thickness on each surface. The aerodynamic
forces are determined by integrating the pressures on each
surface’s gridpoints.3 A rocket vehicle is analyzed with the same
methods, but without the internal flowpath surfaces.
The code has the ability to perform analysis in a completely integrated
fashion (propulsion-airframe-massproperties-aero-gravlossheating-
volumes, etc.). Individual components include either hypersonic
airbreathing or rocket engines integrated into a full vehicle
model; their performance is calculated over the complete mission
trajectory. Vehicle sizing is done in an iterative loop. The vehicle is
scaled until the volume available for the fuel is equal to the fuel volume
needed based on individual component weights and densities.
The code calculates the volumes and areas of all of the components
and from this subtracts the volumes of payload, equipment, thermal
protection system (TPS), etc. The resulting volume is multiplied by
a tank packaging efficiency as a measure of how well the tank shape
is able to use the available volume. The resulting value is the volume
available for propellant and must equal the fuel volume required to
complete the mission trajectory to “close” the vehicle. All of the
components will require resizing, because the vehicle is continuously
scaled to match all of these requirements simultaneously.
The entire code consists of over 200 subroutines and functions
that account for approximately 12,000 executable lines of code. Several
standard codes, such as Missile Datcom for aerodynamics, have
been integrated into the code’s suite of analysis tools. Setup time for
the complete analysis of a new system requires several days, and,
once the included components of the specific vehicle system are
connected, the system calculations for each solution run are done
in about 10 min on a standard desktop PC. The code has the ability
to model 21 different commercially available rocket engines as
well as airbreathing scramjet-based engines and traditional turbine
engines using a variety of inlet geometries. Rocket geometries are
also included, as represented in Fig. 1.
-------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ajay P. Kothari
President
Astrox Corporation
AIAA Associate Fellow
Ph: 301-935-5868
Web: www.astrox.com
Email: a.p.k...@astrox.com
-------------------------------------------------------
From: Keith Henson
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 4:06 PM
To: a.p.kothari astrox.com <a.p.k...@astrox.com>
Cc: vid.b...@fotonika-lv.eu; Paul Werbos <paul....@gmail.com>; vid.b...@gmail.com; power-satell...@googlegroups.com; Gordon’s Mail <gm...@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal launch as an option for reusability
On Sat, Feb 10, 2024 at 10:37 AM a.p.kothari astrox.com <a.p.k...@astrox.com> wrote:
One of THE MAJOR problems with HTHL (and Jess may confirm this) is that it limits the GTOW to what gears (takeoff speed and hence and runway lengths) can handle. It is approximately 1.5 Mlb GTOW (for 20K lb payload to LEO). There is no room for growth. Then why do this at all, and why not just go with VTVL or VTHL?
SKYLON SSTO is nonsense. It cannot be done. Physics.
AJ, I think you are speaking from ignorance. I have spent well over a hundred hours with the Skylon Excel spreadsheets and even contributed to reducing the takeoff mass by finding another way to stop the Skylon in the event of a rejected takeoff. The payload fraction is not very high, 15 tons out of 325, (4.6%) but at high flight rates the cost goes under $100/kg, which is low enough for power satellites.
The innovation for the Skylon engines is the precooler. That was tested with a J79 on full afterburner simulating Mach 5 intake air. It was a joint project between Reaction Engines and the AFRL and worked as predicted.
SpaceX may beat out Skylon on cost, but the ozone damage might not permit the required flight rate (25,000 per year, 2.5 million tons per year) for power satellites.. The NOAA paper indicated that the ozone damage was acceptable even at a million Skylon flights per year. I suspect this is not the case for LNG/LOX rockets, but I don't know because the study has not been done.
Keith
People NEED to do System Level Analysis to see the impacts of various components on a mission driven system (payload to LEO as e.g.) or use that in their inferences.
The attached paper was given at AIAA ISH conference in 2011. Approved for public release by AFRL.
And another thing.
The total propellant/fuel used today by rockets is less than 0.04% of what auto vehicles use and thus contribute to climate/CO2 issues.
Even with 3 flights a day by Starship (which I do not see happening for a decade at least or more). It would be less than 1.2%.
Best way to attack this FIRST is to do what Elon is doing. E-Vehicles. But that electricity has to come from nuclear or it is no go. Here Elon is wrong about putting the entire burden on battery storage.
And there it has to be Gen IV Thorium Molten Salt Reactors (or something as promising). Most everything else is a band-aid or pure hogwash.
-------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Ajay P. Kothari
President
Astrox Corporation
AIAA Associate Fellow
Ph: 301-935-5868
Web: www.astrox.com
Email: a.p.k...@astrox.com
-------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: power-satell...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of vid.b...@fotonika-lv.eu
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2024 2:28 AM
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No, Keith. You may have spent 100 hrs with Skylon excel but I have actually designed and built Skylon in Astrox code HySIDE which is not a spreadsheet. The code is much more complicated and also ITAR so I cannot discuss it here in detail.
I sent the results of Skylon trade study previously but apparently you have not looked at them.
I dug it out of my email and remember looking at it and deciding it didn't make a lot of sense.1. Skylon does not close even for 20K lbs payload to LEO Easterly to 100 nm orbitWhy you are not using metric is beyond me. 20k pounds is a little over 9 metric tons. 100 nautical miles is 185 km.Reaction Engines D1 configuration is supposed to deliver 15 metric tons to a 300 km equatorial orbit. That's the numbers in the Wikipedia page. If you get different numbers than Reaction Engines did, why?5. Horizontal takeoff still requires reasonable size wings although we gave them
benefit of 331 nm velocity at takeoffWhat does "nm" mean in this context?Keith
Speaking of using Skylon to launch SPS,
In the Virtus Solis Whitepaper that John Bucknell posted on the list on 02.02.2024
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377865839_Survey_of_Space_Based_Solar_Power_SBSP
On page 9, "Table 1: Summary of SBSP Concept
Parameters and Performance" references the Frazer-Nash ESA 2022
study using Skylon for launching CASSIOPeiA
with following figures:
CASSIOPeiA
Rated Power to Grid: 1440 MW
Orbital Mass 2,064 MT
Total CAPEX: $4,537 million (€4,210 million)
Spacelift Cost: $2,464 million (€2,286 million)
Spacelift: Reaction Engines Skylon
Stated LCoE: $63.64 (€59) MWh / Nornalized LCoE: $54.33 (€50) MWh
($2,464 million / 2,064,000 kg = $ 1,194/kg)
(€1,108/kg)
From the FNC_014843_53334R_TN3_System Breakdown and Technical Feasibility_ISSUE_1.3.pdf
On page 37 Frazer-Nash writes:
The total spacelift mass that is needed to put a
1.44 GW SBSP system into orbit is 2,491 metric tons. This is
equal to the satellite mass of 1,816 metric tons plus the mass
of station keeping propellant, assembly robots, and OTV.
Starship, a planned fully reusable super
heavy-lift launch vehicle that is being developed by SpaceX,
represents the only near-term launch concept which can deliver
SBSP’s modular structures to GTO at a reasonable cost and in the
right orbit. This system can deliver a total mass of between
21-29 T to GTO, assuming that Starship is refuelled in orbit
using propellent that is also delivered to GTO.
Taken together, these two assumptions suggest that between 86 and 119 Starship launches are required to deliver a single 1.44 GW SBSP system into orbit.
In the FN study (page 30), Spacelift costs range from: 454 €/kg - 1,877 €/kg -
3,301 €/kg
If the spacelift cost can reflect costs observed with reusable rockets in the USA that are launched via the public/private partnership between NASA and SpaceX (~€400/kg), then the LCOE of SBSP is highly competitive compared to other electricity generating assets.
***
From page 60:
We consider two systems to explore the likely range of cost figures for the future space launch market:
Both systems are designed to require only modest maintenance / refurbishment between flights, rapid turnaround time, high flight rate and high utilisation.
The life of the Starship is assumed to be up to 100 flights, and that of the spaceplane up to 200 flights.
The SPS payloads would be launched to LEO, where the vehicle would be refuelled to provide an efficient transfer to a geostationary transfer orbit. A dedicated orbit transfer vehicle would deliver the payload to the final orbit. The orbit transfer vehicle would be refuelled from the launch vehicle. Using published performance data for Starship it is estimated that 57.9 tonnes could be delivered to GEO with two launches, one to provide refuelling in LEO. Elon Musk has quoted very ambitious figures for Starship launch costs, which assumes high flight rates and a life of up to 100 flights. Assuming a cost per launch comparable with the current cost for SpaceX Falcon Heavy, $100M, the cost is $3,453/kg.
As Spacefreight becomes commoditised, as airfreight is today, the costs reduce. Reaction Engines predict that as the flight rate per year increases from 1,000 to 10,000 per year the cost falls from $400/kg to $100/kg.
From: FNC_TN1_Issue 3 - FINAL_S2C120822.pdf
This FrazerNash report (page 16) estimates the
levelised cost of electricity from space-based solar power
systems to be €59 (£50) per MWh at a hurdle rate of 20%. ($ 63.6
/MWh)
The cost is sensitive to hurdle rate and at a 10%
rate, the LCOE is €31 (£26) per MWh. ($33.4 /MWh)
The Virtus Solis SPS architecture mentioned in
their white paper anticipates a LCoE of $25/MWh (€23.2/MWh).
**
Does anyone know the status of Skylon / SABRE
development today?
Regards,
Arthur Woods
----------------------
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