Need creative help

[Keith Henson]

This syngas from trash and solar energy project needs a catchy name.

L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with (desperate
situation). For this project, something with syngas in the name, Sunny
Syngas? Or maybe something pointing to Victorian gas production. Or
something about a step in the direction of carbon net zero. How does
AFP for alternate fuel production sound? Or MAGA for Make American Gas
Again ;-). The project spreads out over so much territory that it is
hard to sum up in a title or even a sentence.

I wonder if there are places that produce project names? I could try
on the extropian list and the power satellite group. Also, the Harker
list. I am not on Reddit, but maybe ask there?

Keith

[k.a.carroll]

How about Clean Gas?

In the sense that it's not "dirty" in the sense of natural gas from underground, adding net CO2 to the atmosphere...it's making songs from trash that would otherwise decompose in landfills.

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[Amalie Sinclair]

GUMP  
Gas Utilities Method Production 

[John Clark]

On Tue, Jun 2, 2026 at 10:14 PM Keith Henson <hkeith...@gmail.com> wrote:

> L5 Society was the best name I ever came up with

And that was a great name! It's simple and sticks in the mind. Why they chose to change it to something generic and completely forgettable I have no idea.  

John K Clark

[Paul Werbos]

This is one small example of the many, many things I saw with my own eyes.

The decision was to merge L5 with Von Braun's National Space Institute, to create NSS. I was the L5 rep to these discussions. If Gary Oleson still joins these discussions, he may also have relevant memories. The key person on the NSI side was Carol Rosin, whom I remember quite well from about four connections which immediately come to mind. (JUST now, I searched... she still has a big web presence; it says she is 82 years old now. Merger was intended to bring greater strength through greater unity, but opening to a larger constituency can sometimes dilute focus. O'Neill had a clear vision, and it is sad how it is not so visible to the world now as it was then.

 

John K Clark

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[jerome...@millennium-project.org]

The reason was the merger with L-5 Society and National Space Institute (sometime referred to as No Space Intelligence).

 

Jerry

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[Mark Sonter]

What about habitats in an Earth-Moon Hilda orbit?

 

‘The Hilda Habitats’

 

Closer than L4 or L5. Resonant with the Moon. Close to GEO at Perigee, and to EM L1 altitude at apogee..

 

Can be fed by mass launched from Moon, or imported from NEAs.

 

Comments?

 

Mark

 

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“Keep everything as simple as possible, but no simpler” - A. Einstein

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[k.a.c...@sympatico.ca]

Mark;

 

Interesting. I assume that you mean an orbit in a 3:2 orbital resonance with the Moon, just as Hilda is in a 3:2 orbital resonance with Jupiter?

 

Has anyone published anything on the orbital dynamics of such a quasi-Hilda in the Earth-Moon system? If so, I’d be interested to take a look.

 

- Kieran

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[Paul Werbos]

Back when I created the NSF-NASA initiative on space solar power, the use of these orbits as an alternative path towards fulfilling the vision of Gerard K. O'Neill would have been well within the scope, as a research issue to figure out the tradeoffs. I would guess our reviewers would agree that it is a reasonable approach worth evaluating, but might ask how important it is compared to other things requiring NSF style support. Lately, I do not see much strategic thinking on that in the US; a lot of what I see is much stronger in PR than on serious, hard science and optimization. 

THIS YEAR, the tradeoffs sound clear enough, with relatively accessible data sources that I would expect an assessment by systems like Claude Sonnet or DeepSeek, which requires cross-checking and such, but might give numbers solid enough to warrant further assessment, or not. 

[jerome...@millennium-project.org]

 

 

From: Paul Werbos <paul....@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2026 7:25 AM
To: Mark Sonter <mark....@asteroidenterprises.com>
Cc: jerome...@millennium-project.org; John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>; Keith Henson <hkeith...@gmail.com>; ExI chat list <extrop...@lists.extropy.org>; extro...@googlegroups.com; Power Satellite Economics <power-satell...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Need creative help

 

Back when I created the NSF-NASA initiative on space solar power, (with The Millennium Project DOE funded global research to trigger it <smile>) the use of these orbits as an alternative path towards fulfilling the vision of Gerard K. O'Neill would have been well within the scope, as a research issue to figure out the tradeoffs. I would guess our reviewers would agree that it is a reasonable approach worth evaluating, but might ask how important it is compared to other things requiring NSF style support. Lately, I do not see much strategic thinking on that in the US; a lot of what I see is much stronger in PR than on serious, hard science and optimization. 

[Paul Werbos]

The true history of new S&T does usually connect MULTIPLE threads and groups, more complex than the famous written histories, more and more as economies grow more complex.

The history of the JIETSSP activity I know VERY well, because I was the person who organized it. But I was not just an autistic island, the way many would-be new leaders want to be. 

Jerry reminds me of the role of the Millennium Project.

When I reminisce (he and I both qualify as aging humans), I think especially of meetings we had in the living room of Barbara Marx Hubbard on Porter Street, with Carol Rosin and others still famous but not as familiar to me as those three. I sometimes cite JFK and Barbara as the two people who did more than anyone else on earth to change the course of history in a way which substantially elevated US space efforts. Both deserve much more recognition (though lately I sometimes think of Gerard K. O'Neill that way as well, even though he wasn't in that living room.)

For JFK... when I was at Harvard, I spoke to a janitor who knew both brothers (RFK and JFK), who saw how inspired they were by Teilhard de Chardin, which inspired a lot of their space initiatives. Back in those days, my father gave me a copy of the thick Congressional hearing book on the new NASA budget, and it was VERY clear that this was not just a giveaway to vested interests; it was more like a table of contents of all the most advanced real new technologies which caused a vast spurt in US productivity in those days. (People who measure and model productivity changes always confront the "riddle" of why those years were so special.) 

And then, I saw how Barbara organized huge meetings in places like the Gold Room of Congress, restoring the idea of SSP after

major reviews from DOE (which I was part of!) concluded that the big bucks plans they had received from the usual big companies did not pass muster. SSP reinvented, with a "Fresh Look" study, propelled Mankins' group, which was my partner in creating JIETSSP.  Certainly our meetings in Barbara's house on Porter Street, with Jerry and Carol most visible to me, were a source of great joy and hope.

But this year, who knows? In 20-some minutes, I am scheduled to receive a new breakthrough report on what is really going on in our solar system, and what the next big wave of opportunities could be. Already researched and written, raising the question of what to do with it. It is a shame I cannot just pass it on to what was active in the past here.. Of course, we do all know the sun has been doing interesting things for about a month lately.

[Mark Sonter]

Paul-

 

Teilhard de Chardin, eh?

 

French Jesuit, palaeontologist, philosopher, and visionary-of-the-future-of Humanity… probably the most interesting commentator of the early 20^th century on ‘how to meld science with faith’ – which got him a long and loud ‘STFU’ from the Vatican..

 

His concept of the ‘noosphere’ -the evolving planetary mind- in analogy with the biosphere - has now got its superstructure well-and-truly in place thanks to the Internet and its spear-point, Elon’s ‘X’.  The tension between the centrifugal (splitting into subspecies) and centripetal (unifying influences) plays out in the daily X commentaries.

 

Most obviously, the planetary Overview Effect and the ever-greater connectedness worldwide are drawing truth out, and illuminating the oneness of the world.. and drawing people together.. ‘whatever happens to you in Europe / US / Asia affects me in Australia’ sort of thing. ‘When you bleed, I bleed.’

 

The controversial idea that this was a process of ‘Christogenesis’ was what got TdeCh closest to being excommunicated..

 

But it sure as hell was a good philosophical basis for a ‘Manifest Destiny’ view of Humanity’s place in the Universe…

 

Mark     

 

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Mark J Sonter, mobile 0447 755 598  (delete '0' & replace with '61' country code if calling from overseas)

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Principal, Asteroid Enterprises Pty Ltd, abn 53 008 115 302
Chairman, Off Earth Resources Pty Ltd, abn 31 664 219 372

Adjunct Assoc Prof, Andy Thomas Centre for Space Resources, Univ of Adelaide

116 Pennine Drive, South Maclean, Queensland 4280, Australia

Please use marks...@gmail.com for general or radiation related communications, and mark....@asteroidenterprises.com for space related topics.

 

“Keep everything as simple as possible, but no simpler” - A. Einstein

 

[Claudio Cioffi]

During my youth as a student at a Catholic high school, I had the opportunity to study the teachings of Fr. TdC during my teenage years. It is important to note that he was not subject to any form of banishment or ostracism. In fact, his teachings were highly regarded and respected within the school community.

–––
Claudio Cioffi-Revilla, Ph.D., D.Sc.Pol.
University Distinguished Professor Emeritus, George Mason University
Jefferson Science Fellow of the U.S.A. National Academy of Sciences
Elected Fellow of the  American Association for the Advancement of Science AAAS
        


Research Gate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Claudio_Cioffi
Academic page: https://socialcomplexity.gmu.edu/faculty/csc-faculty-dr-cioffi/
National Academies page:   http://sites.nationalacademies.org/PGA/Jefferson/PGA_046486
ORCID https://orcid.org/0000-0001-6445-9433

SSRN https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/results.cfm

On Jun 4, 2026, at 10:04 PM, Mark Sonter <mark....@asteroidenterprises.com> wrote:

External Message: Use Caution

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[Amalie Sinclair]

Dear Friends, 
The "noosphere" has obviously arrived, as has the "singularity", but the outlook going forward is not necessarily benign. Mass surveillance may engender systems of autocratic governance in many places, accompanied by propaganda and censorship. Objectives for advanced technological innovation in space have been quickly subsumed as militarised r&d assets such as solar, quantum,beamed energy and communications. There is no particular narrative against the failure of the noosphere and the success of the overview, apart from reliance on the slow movement outwards towards space settlement. If genuine and consolidated internationalisation of the global space economy is not achieved within a few years, and purpose falls to military objectives, then the result is likely to be highly limiting and oppressive. Something even of a "dark age". The rationale of expansion into space via "manifest destiny" will not carry more than an ideological message, what is driving is commercial competition, especially around AI/data/sat and drone/cyber/autonomy. It is possible that early dynamics could shift, basically because warfighting and weapons manufacture is not productive economy. The availability of mass communications makes clear the cost. Turning the politic around will take various levels of international and regulatory agreement related to the treaty basis, some work is ongoing. BTW - I also had some discussion with Carol Rosin 2003/2004, who drew attention to Von Brauns warning concerning the" last card",UFO's and aliens. Highlighted perhaps by the recent release of FBI classified files. 
Best wishes Amalie               

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[Mark Sonter]

Hi Kieran,

 

A 3:1 lunar resonant orbit (ie 9-day period) will have a perigee a couple of thousand km above GEO and an apogee a couple of thousand km below EM L1 altitude, but 180 degrees away (work it out).

 

We had a bit of a look at this when I was associated with Deep Space Industries, but nothing was ever written up / published.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

--
Mark J Sonter, mobile 0447 755 598  (delete '0' & replace with '61' country code if calling from overseas)

Director & Principal Consultant, Radiation Advice & Solutions Pty Ltd, abn 31 891 761 435
Principal, Asteroid Enterprises Pty Ltd, abn 53 008 115 302
Chairman, Off Earth Resources Pty Ltd, abn 31 664 219 372

Adjunct Assoc Prof, Andy Thomas Centre for Space Resources, Univ of Adelaide

116 Pennine Drive, South Maclean, Queensland 4280, Australia

Please use marks...@gmail.com for general or radiation related communications, and mark....@asteroidenterprises.com for space related topics.

 

“Keep everything as simple as possible, but no simpler” - A. Einstein

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/power-satellite-economics/07df01dcf410%24b9fc3540%242df49fc0%24%40sympatico.ca.

[k.a.c...@sympatico.ca]

Thanks Mark.

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[Keith Henson]

I think O'Neill mentioned a 2 for one orbit, half a lunar month. But it does not make any difference as long as it is in free space.

At one point, I looked into lunar elevators. They work by going through L1 and hanging down into the Earth's gravity. As I recall, if you extended that part to around 190,000 km you were at the end of a Hohmann transfer orbit to GEO.

The big problem with any space colony proposal is to find something for the inhabitants to do. That takes materials. A space elevator off the moon would give them that.

hBest wishes,

Keith

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[Greater Earth]

Greetings,

In our 2022-2023 GEO-LPS feasibility study for ESA we looked at the Lunar Space Elevator as a core element of cislunar transportation system - basically as an alternative to using a mass-driver which may be used (although difficult) for launching raw materials from the lunar surface - but not suitable for transporting finished lunar manufactured components for Solar Power Satellites to an assembly location at EM-L1 which was the focus of our study.

Our analysis of using a LSE was published in JBIS in 2023.

Two videos illustrating our LSE concept are also on this page.

https://astrostrom.ch/jbis-the-lunar-space-elevator-and-the-geo-lps/

astrostrom.ch

JBIS: The Lunar Space Elevator and the GE⊕-LPS - ASTROSTROM

Published in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society Special Issue: Future Directions for Space Elevators. The Lunar Space Elevator: A Key Technology for Realising the Greater Earth Lunar Power Station (GE⊕-LPS) by Astrostrom GmbH.

🔗 https://astrostrom.ch/jbis-the-lunar-space-elevator-and-the-geo-lps/

The JBIS paper can be downloaded here: https://astrostrom.ch/docs/JBIS-6-Lunar-Space-Elevator.pdf

Best regards,

Arthur Woods

-----------------------

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[Opener of the Way]

How about: 

   SolarForged Syngas

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[Keith Henson]

We can always change the name, but the best so far seems to be SolarSyngas.

I have considerable doubt that this is enough time to build it before the singularity runs over everything

Keith

Best wishes,

Keith