Madeira Ancestors

[mm...@bellsouth.net]

Er.ic Edgar, read your post there are new members looking for information on Madeira

ancestors. When I was very active on this I did find the following information (these were

the passport records of my great grandparents obtained from Arquivo-Madeira.org/cLista

Passports (and I am abbreviating):

Petitioner: Manuel de Sousa Jardim

Spouse:    Eulalia da Camara

Parish:      Arco da Calheta (RAM)

 

Their destination was Hawaii, and I have those records. Passport No. 490,

Process No. 83, Box 42.

 

Manuel was born 1850 (died Hawaii 1916); Eulalia born 1852 (died Hawaii 1914)

My confusion is that tho' I have the records, somewhere along the line in Ancestry.com

an individual put in Eulalia's 'last name as Cambria" .  In addition, the person that

put in this told me that the spouse name above as you see as 'da Camara' translated

to the fact that she was an orphan and raised in what would have been an orphanage.

I cannot substantiate this information for my greatgrandmother and this is where I need

some insight or a direction to look.  I'm hoping you can shed some light on her last name.

 

In addition, I have what I believe to be records going back to perhaps 1770 on my

greatgrandfathers side; but at an impasse where I go from here to determine and

substantiate where (cities/parishes) they were born in Madeira and maybe elsewhere.

 

Looking forward to hearing from you ... thank you, Michele

 

[eric edgar]

Michele, 

Portuguese names are often misspelled in records. If you look at early census records, often you'll see the neither read or write, so the recording of a name is by sound, which is of a different languague. 

The "helpful" Ancestry person is wrong. The surname da Camara, used in Madeira, usually refers to their family being from Camara do Lobos, the concelho that borders Funchal on the west. My wife's family uses the name 

Rodrigues Lobo in some older records, to differentiate theirs from the other Rodrigues families in Canhas. They had come from Camara do Lobos a few generations before. 

Your record for Manuel de Sousa Jardim says he's from Arco de Calheta. Have you traced the family out of there ? Easy to use the Archivo to do that following the marriage and baptism records. 

The passport lists show that this family also traveled from Madeira to Brazil in 1894. Eulalia is shown with both parents incognito, so  an exposto child, but that's not the name origin

Petitioner	Manuel de Sousa Jardim Júnior
Spouse	Eulália da Câmara
Companion
Kinship
Parish/Country	Arco da Calheta-RAM
Destination	São Paulo-BRA
Year	1893
Month	Set.
Box	103
Process Nº	161
Passport Nº	49
Date of Baptism (Petitioner)
Age (Petitioner)	37
Father (Petitioner)	Manuel de Sousa Jardim Sénior
Mother (Petitioner)	Emília de Jesus
Father (Spouse)	Incógnito
Mother (Spouse)	Incógnita
Name of the Children	Augusta (10 anos)

Pai	Mãe	Filho	Paroquia	Ano	Livro	Folha
Manuel de Sousa Jardim Júnior	Eulália da Câmara	Maria	Arco da Calheta	27-12-1877	4237-A	63 v.º
Manuel de Sousa Jardim	Eulália da Câmara	Emília	Arco da Calheta	12-01-1879	4239-A	2-2 v.º
Manuel de Sousa Jardim	Eulália da Câmara	Maria	Arco da Calheta	27-02-1880-A	4240-A	6 v.º-7
Manuel de Sousa Jardim	Eulália da Câmara	Manuel	Arco da Calheta	17-07-1881	4241-A	24-24 v.º
Manuel de Sousa Jardim	Eulália de Jesus	Augusta	Arco da Calheta	05-11-1883	4243-A	27-27 v.º

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[George Nelson]

Michelle,  it was very common in Hawaii for individuals  with the Camara surname to change it to Cambra.   Dan, Portuguese Genealgoical and Historical Society of Hawaii
 

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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 15:48:33 -0700
From: mm...@bellsouth.net
To: portuguese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Portuguese-Genealogy:5966] Madeira Ancestors

[George Nelson]

Michell, I check our records on your ancestor.  from the Archives of Madeira passport record, it lists her parents as incognito and incognita...which implies that she was in fact an orphan.  Dan
 

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From: dgn...@hotmail.com
To: portuguese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Portuguese-Genealogy:5968] Madeira Ancestors
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 11:03:58 -1000

[mm...@bellsouth.net]

Eric, thank you! This question about my greatgrandmother has been on my mind for at least a year now...am just wondering why I didn't find you sooner!! At least now I can close the chapter on Eulalia and charge forward on Manuel.

 

I'm sure you know about the FB group Portuguese Genealogy group (of which I am a member). Many, many questions there that if they would spend the time reading thru what I call 'endless reading' in groups such as yours, I think many questions would be answered.  Quite a few people ARE indeed looking for Madeiran relatives, can I send them your Google group name?

 

One more question - I reviewed all my previous notes. I think I found what is my greatgrandfather's line going back to at least 1700's or so - this I think I did thru  Arquivo Madeira ... am I pretty safe in following the line back that these would indeed be the ancestors? Oh, I forgot to mention - the records you found are identical to what I have so I feel comfortable that at least I am perhaps on the right track!

 

Again, thank you, thank you!!! Michele

[mm...@bellsouth.net]

Hi Dan ... thank you for the reply.  I always take things to the edge so forgive me for asking "why was this so common a practice?" 2nd question, is there a document out there or something I can read about how these Portuguese took up their last name.  By that I mean, I read somewhere (I think in Portuguese names anthology/Wikipedia), that frequently women took their mother's last names, and husband's last name when married. And of course, 'da' was female and 'de' indicated male. Is this so? Is there an easy explanation? Also, does the PGHSH have information on church locations on the Big Island.  My dad was born in Papaloa (I think this is Papauloa) and he remembers the Catholic Church there that coincidentally was across the street from the houses they lived in.  This is now a sugar cane field.  Born and raised in Honolulu, have been there many times and one of the times with my folks, we went to Papaloa so I'm quite familiar with my home state.  Also, I have followed for years the activity of the Sugar Cane mills, is there yet any progress on their books and getting them loaded to a database for their employee records.  My greatgrandparents went there and worked the mills, first Big Island, Kauai, and then in Lahaina.

 

So, I thank you very much for your information, look forward to hearing from you. my mahalos, Michele

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[George Nelson]

Michelle,  yes, in Portugal females did use their mother's maiden name.   the da, de, dos  is an article and not a part of the surname.  it does not indicate gender.   to the best of my knowledge, most of the employment records were destroyed.  the only employment records for sugar plantation that were microfilmed, are for the Filipino's and these contain only one example for each person.   I talked to a plantation worker from Kauai, who helped closed down one of the last plantations.  his last job was to burn all the employment records for that plantation.   most of the records on sugar plantations are the production reports.  The Hawaii Plantation Village in Waipahu, has some of these for plantations on Oahu.  Hamilton Library, Univ of Hawaii at Manoa, also have these records for some of the outer island plantations.   Dan
 

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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:19:32 -0700
From: mm...@bellsouth.net
To: portuguese...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Portuguese-Genealogy:5970] Madeira Ancestors

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[luiznoia .]

Michele, 

Yes feel free to send any Madeirans along to the group. I have been on the Portuguese Geneaolgy Facebook group for a few years. I have posted the Google Group info a few times there. I don't spend much time on the FB page. It's too frustrating.

Most people there post something like . " My grandad came from Portugal, his name was Manuel, do you have his records?" Then it takes 20 exchanges to get a name and place out of them. Who has that time?

You next option is to use the data you've gathered from the Archivo, and either order the actual records from them, or go to a local LDS Family History Center, and order the microfilms of the parish through them. 

Eric 

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[Clifford Nye]

hello michele

I am beck at it. now that I am retired, iI am now more active. So, any qusestions anyone maty have for me let them ask.

Cliff Nye

List owner/dministrator

[Clifford Nye]

Hello everyone

As I just said in the last post, I' now retired and more acytive on the list so your welcome to address any questions drieectly to me if you care to

Cliff Nye

List owner/

administrator

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