Effect of Polyphasic Sleep on Exercise, Muscle and Fitness
jeeves
much at all about the effect of polyphasing on exercise, and the
development of muscle and fitness. I thought it would be valuable to
start a thread to collect anecdotes and opinions. It's hardly
scientific, but it's a start.
I'm looking primarily to answer three questions:
- How does polyphasic sleep effect your ability TO exercise?
Does it make it harder to exercise at high intensity? Does it make it
easier? Conversely, does high-intensity exercise have any effect on
Polyphasic? Making it harder to sleep, or harder to wake up, etc?
- How does polyphasic sleep effect PROGRESS while exercising?
This may vary depending on the kind of goals you are working towards.
The three main ones are fitness/endurance, strength/muscle-
development, and weight-loss/control.
Perhaps the shortened sleep time inhibits the recovery of muscle after
weight-training, leading to smaller strength and muscle gains? Perhaps
the opposite is true and smaller frequent rests stimulate muscle
development, much like smaller frequent meals do?
- Are there any tips or techniques people have come across that have
helped them make the most of training while polyphasic?
---
I'll start off with some personal commentary. I'm just now starting a
"bulking" (muscle building) program, having just finished a very
successful "cutting" program (weight-loss). As a focussed, motivated
individual (like almost everyone here appears to be) I want to do
everything possible to ensure the time I spend at the gym has maximum
effect. I track my workout progress very carefully, I eat 6 times a
day, I ensure I get just the right balance of nutrients and I take all
the right supplements, all as recommended by the best information I
can find on building muscle. However, there's one piece of advice I
haven't been following:
"Get a solid 8 hours sleep every night."
That tidbit is in every guide to weight training I've ever read. You
don't build muscle at the gym, you systematically "damage" it so that
later, while you're resting, your body will repair it and strengthen
it more for next time.
You build the most muscle (according to most theories) while sleeping.
While the body's repair systems are running at full-speed. The
building of muscle is essentially repairing the damage you've caused
to it by lifting weight. It worries me that in addition to not getting
my full-length repair cycle, I also hear people commenting that it
takes longer to recover from injuries/scratches/etc while on
polyphasic, which would seem to support the notion that we are getting
less repair-time.
An additional worry is that the major portion of the body's
testosterone is produced at night (at least in men). Breaking up sleep
into smaller chunks appears to significantly disrupt the testosterone
cycle, as seen in this study: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/3/1134.
For those who don't know, testosterone is essential to building muscle
and strength. When you hear about bodybuilders taking "steroids" to
boost their muscle development, testosterone is what they're taking.
My personal experience has appeared to been in line with this, but is
hardly controlled or scientific. I seem to have had a harder time
progressing up through the weights (I track how much I lift each week)
while on polyphasic than previously, despite a better diet and
technique. Also, at the risk of providing too much information, I seem
to have a lower sex drive while polyphasic, which would be a sure
indicator of lower testosterone levels.
However, as far as weight-loss goes polyphasic was actually very
helpful. It allowed me to spread my calories over a larger portion of
the day (helping prevent the usual dip in metabolism overnight), and
the extra time let me incorporate more cardio into my day.
For the moment, I'm erring on the side of mainstream science and have
switched back to monophasic for the duration of my bulking phase. Once
i'm back to cutting again, I will most likely revert back to
polyphasic. I'm already missing the free time dearly :(
Ok, essay over. Anyone else had different experiences, or want to
comment on some of the other aspects of the questions I haven't
touched on?
jeeves
presented is certainly open to debate as to how much it applies to
Polyphasic.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/3/1134
Wendell
Dymaxion, and my whole life pretty much revolves around training. I
really look at this as more hours in the day to train. So far, its
better then normal, but its still way too soon to create a theory. I
am writing a log book for every day, but I will not release it until
it is complete (30 days). But I will defiantly keep you informed on
how I go. If I end up tearing all the tendons in my body, and them
not healing, I will be sure to tell you via my nose. (nose typing,
obtaining 10 nose words per minute with 98% nose accuracy)
William Cleveland
So I am lacking muscle, but I was able to do a few things strength wise and now I feel like my arms aren't quite working. I thought maybe it was attributable to vegetarianism, which I converted to at the beginning of this endeavor. I've started to try to do a few pushups in the morning, and trying to more regularly attempt pullups. I'll update more if anything changes.
BTW: I started everyman 6 weeks ago, but I have not really been completely good with my schedule. I don't feel completely adapted yet.
-William
William Cleveland
P.O. Box 905
Mississippi State, MS 39762
228.596.7419 (mobile)
PlaceboZA (Greg)
It's very difficult to get enough decent protein in when you're still learning the ropes with vegetarianism, as far as I've heard (I'm not a veggie myself)
If you're not getting enough protein and you're eating less than you used to, it's likely that you're losing muscle mass.
Just my opinion :)
`People who don't get carried away, should be`
MrPoptart
week, ample nutrition, etc. To answer some of your early
questions(keep in mind, this is my own personal experience and your
results may vary):
"How does polyphasic sleep effect your ability TO exercise? Does it
make it harder to exercise at high intensity?"
I've read blogs about a guy who was training for a marathon while
doing polyphasic (in south america, I think) and polyphasic didn't
affect his training. Personally, I find that polyphasic makes
everything difficult during the acclimation period, but makes
everything easier once you're fully in.
"Conversely, does high-intensity exercise have any effect on
Polyphasic? Making it harder to sleep, or harder to wake up, etc?"
Endorphins do all sorts of things to your mind and body, but I find
most of them positive. I had difficulty sleeping immediately after a
workout, so I used to plan my naps around my exercise routine so I'd
have at least an hour to fall asleep after working out. As long as I
did that, not only did I feel great because of the exercise, but the
"high" I'd get from polyphasic would only boost my upbeat attitude.
Waking up was rarely a problem when I was exercising a lot.
How does polyphasic sleep effect PROGRESS while exercising?
This is the biggie. You've performed a cut, and are now performing a
bulk. This means you need to do more of a focus on weights and less on
cardio, which is going to challenge everything you know about how your
body works. You think to yourself, hey, I'm not running for hours a
day, I'm eating more, lifting more, but I'm still losing weight and
not making big gains in lifting. This is partially simple math. Did
you take the extra 8 hours a day you're awake into account for your
BMR?
The human brain burns 1/10 of a calorie per minute when sleeping (not
dreaming). when active, it can burn as much as 1.5 cal per minute.
This means if you're awake for an extra 8 hours a day, just sitting
and thinking hard can burn as much as 700 calories more than before.
Add this to the physical exercise you're performing when you're awake
and your BMR is nowhere near where you're aiming.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/61994314e58fb010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
I timed my polyphasic shift with my bulk period and had similar
problems to start. I found that my BMR increased by about 25-30% but I
know yours might be different. (I'm 6'8") Keep a log of what exercises
you do for a day, what their caloric values are, and you might be
surprised how much you're burning. Eventually, I was able to make
solid gains in muscle mass. I have faith that you can, too.
Good luck
On Nov 14, 4:58 am, "PlaceboZA (Greg)" <placeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It could be your particular vegetarian diet
> It's very difficult to get enough decent protein in when you're still
> learning the ropes with vegetarianism, as far as I've heard (I'm not a
> veggie myself)
>
> If you're not getting enough protein and you're eating less than you used
> to, it's likely that you're losing muscle mass.
>
> Just my opinion :)
>
> On Nov 14, 2007 1:43 PM, William Cleveland < wclevel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Since starting polyphasic I've felt like my strength levels have
> > decreased. I've never been that strong or worked out, but there were things
> > I was able to do. A game I play with my friend that is like arm wrestling
> > (but not really),and I always would win, but when we played I felt like some
> > of my strength was missing and he bested me. Again, I don't work out that
> > much, but I had the strength to do a few pullups a few months ago, but now I
> > don't.
>
> > So I am lacking muscle, but I was able to do a few things strength wise
> > and now I feel like my arms aren't quite working. I thought maybe it was
> > attributable to vegetarianism, which I converted to at the beginning of this
> > endeavor. I've started to try to do a few pushups in the morning, and
> > trying to more regularly attempt pullups. I'll update more if anything
> > changes.
>
> > BTW: I started everyman 6 weeks ago, but I have not really been
> > completely good with my schedule. I don't feel completely adapted yet.
>
> > -William
>
PlaceboZA (Greg)
William Cleveland
Thanks,
William
jeeves
Thanks for all the responses, a couple of comments:
Wendell: Make sure, of course, that you fully adapt before you decide
how well polyphasic works with your exercise routine. Adaptation,
especially to Dymaxion, will likely makes things difficult for a
while.
William: If you feel like you're losing strength, part of it (as
placebo said) could be vegetarianism, and part of it could also be the
fact that you don't feel adapted yet, as you mentioned. If you became
vegetarian for health (rather than ethical) reasons, you might
consider pescovegetarianism. Essentially, vegetarian + fish. It's
widely considered one of the most healthy diets around, provided you
are careful about where you get your fish ;-) The fish would provide
the protein you might be lacking in a vegetarian diet.
With regard to "bulking" and "cutting": Essentially you cannot gain
muscle in any reasonable quantity unless you are eating excess
calories (more than you burn), and you cannot lose fat unless you are
eating _less_ calories than you burn. In order to look fit and
muscular you need both a high amount of muscle AND a low amount of
body fat, but you cannot do both at the same time with any
effectiveness. So instead you do them separately, alternating
"bulking" where you eat extra calories with the goal of building
muscle and don't concern yourself too much if you gain a little fat in
the process, and "cutting" where you diet and hit the cardio to lose
the excess fat. You will look your best right after a cut, but by
alternating between the two phases you will gain muscle each time, and
always look reasonably good. I can't think of any particular sites or
articles about the process, but http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html
would be a reasonable place to start looking.
MrPoptart: Kind of an ironic name for someone who seems to know a lot
about how to eat well ;-) Thanks for your analysis of the extra
calories burned on polyphasic, it's something I'd considered but not
put a number to. For those who aren't aware, a major component of a
bulking phase is that you must eat extra calories, say around 500 more
than you burn, in order for your body to build a decent amount of
muscle. Just to clarify my personal situation, I've only just started
this particular bulking period, and so haven't had any difficulties or
slow progress yet. I switched back to monophasic "preemptively" as
based on what I had read I could only conclude it would be better for
building muscle. I'm more than happy to convinced otherwise as I'm
missing the extra time sorely, and having a surprisingly hard time
adapting back to monophasic (not sleeping through the night and
feeling tired during the day).
---
Anyone tried HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) while on
polyphasic? I did for a period of a few weeks (post adaptation) and it
appeared to make me substantially more tired, as if my body was
craving extra rest. Of course I expected to feel more physically tired
from the exertion, but all of a sudden it was as if I wasn't getting
enough sleep anymore. Similar experiences anyone?
On Nov 14, 6:36 am, "William Cleveland" <wclevel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a place I can read more about muscle building and bulk periods?
> I'm not quite familiar with this idea.
> Thanks,
> William
>
> On Nov 14, 2007 8:25 AM, PlaceboZA (Greg) <placeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Good answers, I learned something from your response ;)
>
> > >http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/61994314e58fb010vgnvcm1000004eec...
> ...
>
> read more »
puredoxyk
dep. Once you get your schedule under control, your body will almost
certainly recover.
This is one of those things that's an effect of adaptation, not an
effect of being polyphasic. ;)
-PD
MrPoptart
to adapt to not sleeping, I found adapting to HIIT a lot harder. I was
doing 4 mins of 30 sec on 10 sec off. I never stopped feeling
completely dead for hours afterward. I did, however, try this during
monophasic again later, wondering if it was the polyphasic that caused
it, and I again had the same problems, so I don't think polyphasic had
much to do with it. Even when I was training for a marathon under
mono, I was unable to handle the massive shock HIIT seemed to put on
my body.
>
> read more >>
Brice
placebo said) could be vegetarianism, and part of it could also be the
fact that you don't feel adapted yet, as you mentioned. If you became
vegetarian for health (rather than ethical) reasons, you might
consider pescovegetarianism. Essentially, vegetarian + fish. It's
widely considered one of the most healthy diets around, provided you
are careful about where you get your fish ;-) The fish would provide
the protein you might be lacking in a vegetarian diet."
provide sufficient protein. There are plenty of high protein
vegetarian foods, particularly beans & legumes. Nuts and seeds are
great as well. And whole grains such as wheat berries, oat, and spelt
have more bang for your buck than their refined counterparts. With the
extra time awake, and the many smaller meals throughout the day,
fitting the necessary protein into a day is easy. 1c cooked lentils is
>15g protein. 1/4c of peanut butter 9g. And the mentioned grains have
~6g protein per serving.
>
> read more >>
William Cleveland
I'm eating lots of fruit, but I haven't been getting enough vegetables (which is where the protein comes from).
-William
jeeves
provide sufficient protein. There are plenty of high protein
vegetarian foods, particularly beans & legumes. Nuts and seeds are
great as well. And whole grains such as wheat berries, oat, and spelt
have more bang for your buck than their refined counterparts. With the
extra time awake, and the many smaller meals throughout the day,
fitting the necessary protein into a day is easy."
I certainly didn't mean to imply that you can't get enough protein on
a vegetarian diet. This is similar to the "vegetarians don't get
enough iron" myth that actually leads many vegetarians to needlessly
over-compensate and get too much iron. A vegetarian diet can cater to
all but high protein diets (e.g. 30%+ of calories). I was merely
addressing the fact that there are many vegetarians, like William it
would appear, who like the concept but don't balance and/or design
their meals correctly (for whatever reason). In these cases it is easy
to fall into a couple of the "stereotypical" traps such as iron and
protein deficiency, which more experienced vegetarians have absolutely
no problem with.
To address a couple of exceptions. Vegetarians _will_ find it
difficult to provide for diets which call for around 30% or more
protein. At least not without using supplements such as whey or
vegetable protein. Lentils are around 30% protein, tofu gets up to
around 40%, but you can't eat those things exclusively. Such diets are
common for weight-loss (although I personally don't buy into the
"carbs are evil" fad), and for various phases of some muscle-building
regimes.
Also, protein gained form vegetable sources is rarely "complete". By
this I mean that it does not have the full spectrum of amino acids
that the human body needs for muscle development. To get the full
complement, vegetarians need to ensure they get their protein from
different sources. For example Rice plus Lentils will deliver the full
set of amino acids. It's easy enough to make sure this balances over
the day, but if you're aiming for a complete protein source with each
meal it gets a little more complex.
Again, this is all stuff that will not bother the vast majority of
vegetarians, but can trip up those who are just starting or have
specific dietary needs.
On Nov 16, 6:15 am, "William Cleveland" <wclevel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know you can eat protein as a vegetarian, but I haven't been. I'm in
> college living in the dorm, so way too many of my meals are just meal bars
> on the go. Previously I would stop by chick-fil-a for a chicken sandwhich
> or burger king for a burger, but I've cut those out, and haven't replaced my
> meals with anything substantial. I'm working on it now and monitoring what
> I eat a little more.
>
> I'm eating lots of fruit, but I haven't been getting enough vegetables
> (which is where the protein comes from).
>
> -William
>
>
> read more >>
jeeves
Depending on the type it can get above 50% protein.
>
> read more >>
Brice
can be as much as 70% protein. The "complete" protein can be achieved
across meals as the body has a store of the essentials.
We should probably put it back into perspective though. The OP is
making the case his lack of a sex drive (aka, not getting any even
though is in college) somehow proves a drop in testosterone, derived
from less sleep (when bulk of testosterone is made), which is of
course hampering his performance in the gym. But fails to mention his
outrageously bad vegetarian diet that consists of bars, fruit, and
some vegetables. Wow.
>
> read more >>
jeeves
vegetarian, but mentioned nothing about sex drive or the gym. In fact
he said he doesn't really work out that much, he jsut said he felt
weaker.
I said I felt my sex drive was lower and it was harder to build
muscle, but nothing about being vegetarian (although I have been in
the past). I'm also not in college.
Are you referencing another thread?
>
> read more >>