From my ears goes couples.

[Максим Иванов]

People why complicate things? What is the Bower, and why do I need that to download the polymer? (Just do not give me a link I've read about Bower). I already hate it. I hate console!

I have downloaded the zip file on this page https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/start/getting-the-code.html#using-zip. Tell me where I can find in this archive ready to use scripts? Why there is the source? I do not need the source code, I need to prepare files min. Where can I find them? And yet I can not find a core-ajax in this zip file, where it can be downloaded?

My father said, all that you do - do it well or not at all to do ...

Thanks

[Максим Иванов]

After spending two hours I could not get an answer. Ho to Install? Maybe here https://github.com/Polymer/polymer/releases/tag/0.5.2 ?
But here are just a few files. polymer.min.js one of them. Does it contain core-ajax and other? I guess need to be a mind reader, because this is not written anywhere.

Next i saw.

Polymer in 10 minutes

I have already install (over 2 hour)...

[Markus Gattol]

https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/start/getting-the-code.html this tells you in detail how to get polymer installed and running

[Максим Иванов]

That's what I'm saying. On this page, nothing is clear. After downloading the zip file, I have not seen there ready to use scripts. Instead min files where the source code. And going to the next pageI understood that in the zip file, there is no core-Ajax. And where to download a zip file is not written anywhere. The impression of that chaos. Best Practices provide developers polymer.all.min.js

I believe that if I spend a few days of this, I can understand, but pity to me this time. I am sure that this problem is not just me. The main problem is that really do not understand where you can download the final product, and not the source code. And can not use DIRECTIVE import, if I do not need to do reusable control.

[Timothy W. Cook]

I think you need to realize that there are some pre-requisites to using powerful tools.  If you aren't willing to take those first steps then you aren't ready to use them.  You can't start playing Stairway to Heaven on guitar without learning a lot of basics first.  That includes using your fingers (a commandline) even if you prefer to stare at it and make the music come out.  

Good luck.

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Максим Иванов <nim....@gmail.com> wrote:

That's what I'm saying. On this page, nothing is clear. After downloading the zip file, I have not seen there ready to use scripts. Instead min files where the source code. And going to the next pageI understood that in the zip file, there is no core-Ajax. And where to download a zip file is not written anywhere. The impression of that chaos. Best Practices provide developers polymer.all.min.js

I believe that if I spend a few days of this, I can understand, but pity to me this time. I am sure that this problem is not just me. The main problem is that really do not understand where you can download the final product, and not the source code. And can not use DIRECTIVE import, if I do not need to do reusable control.

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[da...@davidapearce.com]

You can download the individual components from their respective pages. Core-ajax can be downloaded here. I think perhaps you are confusing Polymer with a typical javascript library or plugin. I would recommend reading more about how web components work, in general, regardless of Polymer. A single "polymer.all.min.js" is not possible, as web components are not just javascript, they also encapsulate html and css.

[Niels Grewe]

> Am 01.01.2015 um 17:54 schrieb da...@davidapearce.com:

> I would recommend reading more about how web components work, in general, regardless of Polymer. A single "polymer.all.min.js" is not possible, as web components are not just javascript, they also encapsulate html and css.

Apart from that, it really defeats the purpose of encapsulating functionality in a composable fashion if you have to include a large blob of stuff to use any single portion of it. If you look at polymer, the core- and paper-elements as installed via bower, you end up with 28MB of things that you could use, but you will probably not touch 90% of it. Even if it were possible to Include them all in a single file, it would be impractical to point of absurdity.
I’ve only been playing around with polymer for a couple of weeks and I generally found a grunt and bower based build process to be extremely powerful. It takes a bit of time getting familiar with it, but once you’ve gotten used to it, it’s a joy to work with.

Regards,

Niels

[Максим Иванов]

Ok,

core-ajax here https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/elements/core-elements.html#core-ajax

And

core-animated-pages here https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/elements/core-elements.html#core-animated-pages

And

core-animation here https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/elements/core-elements.html#core-animation

And

core-collapse here https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/elements/core-elements.html#core-collapse

And And And And And

Are we living in the last century? Where are all in one place? When a new version will be released again I spend the whole day, that would be all to download?

And then spend another day that would be all min? Ok, your business model is clear to me. :)

[Максим Иванов]

I think you need to realize that there are some pre-requisites to using powerful tools. 

Is a great way, yes? :)

 

[Eric Bidelman]

You can download entire element sent s eight the aggregated paper or core element bundles. See https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/start/usingelements.html#install.

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[Eric Eslinger]

It's actually not that hard to automatically download all the necessary components and either use just the ones you want or use them all packaged together. You can do that using bower. I hear that you hate the console, but I suggest you start learning to love the console. There's a *lot* you can do from the console, and learning how to use the tools developed to solve the very problem you are complaining about will help solve that problem.

e

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[Max]

Also, polymer shouldn't be confused with the elements written using it, even it is the same team doing both.

If you don't like using the command line, perhaps the Chrome Dev Editor might help? <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-dev-editor-develop/pnoffddplpippgcfjdhbmhkofpnaalpg?hl=en> - iinm, it downloads a whole bunch of polymer elements, like you want. It's at least a good way to get started.

Max.

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[Максим Иванов]

Guys I've been programming for 15 years. I know what the console. If the Console is the only possible solution for installing and automation updates do not need to be misleading phrase: "The ZIP file contains all dependencies for this component and is a great way to get started." Now that I've spent a lot of time that would look into this lie. Zip file that does not contain all. I can get to work with the polymer. And I want to draw the attention of developers that this is not the precision makes entry into the polymer is much more difficult than many people think. I think that this will affect the success of the project. So either make a correct description, or make zip archive that contains all really.

PS; sorry for my bad english

[Max]

I just tried downloading the zip file and unzipping it. I see a few issues. Here are my steps :

1. from <https://www.polymer-project.org/docs/start/getting-the-code.html#using-zip> click 'GET POLYMER'

  dialogue appears with 'DOWNLOAD ZIP' and example import :
  '<link rel="import" href="components/polymer/polymer.html">'

2. click 'DOWNLOAD ZIP'

3. cd ~/Downloads/; mkdir tmp; cd tmp; unzip ../archive.zip

the structure of the download doesn't correspond fo the import link in the dialogue above :

[tmp]$ find . -name polymer.html

./components/bower_components/polymer/polymer.html

./components/bower_components/polymer/dist/polymer.html

It does seem to include polymer.html and webcomponents.js, and I presume all their dependencies.

It doesn't include any core or paper elements, but I wouldn't expect that since they're not 'polymer' (just elements written using polymer).

Still, it's clear the instructions aren't correct. Either the archiver should produce a zip file with bower_components renamed to components, or the import link in the dialogue should be changed to be '<link rel="import" href="components/bower_components/polymer/polymer.html">'.

Personally, I think there's an unnecessary directory level there - and to make it consistent with using the command line (with default rc), the dialog should be changed to use 'bower_components/' *and* the top 'components/' directory level removed.

Max.

On Fri Jan 02 2015 at 10:08:47 Максим Иванов <nim....@gmail.com> wrote:

Guys I've been programming for 15 years. I know what the console. If the Console is the only possible solution for installing and automation updates do not need to be misleading phrase: "The ZIP file contains all dependencies for this component and is a great way to get started." Now that I've spent a lot of time that would look into this lie. Zip file that does not contain all. I can get to work with the polymer. And I want to draw the attention of developers that this is not the precision makes entry into the polymer is much more difficult than many people think. I think that this will affect the success of the project. So either make a correct description, or make zip archive that contains all really.

PS; sorry for my bad english

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[Matthew McNulty]

Max - thanks for pointing out the error in the path in the dialog - consider that added to the queue for fixing once people are back from the holidays next week.

Overall, it's important to realize that when web components are in wide usage, there will be tens of thousands of elements from many different vendors. One download for all of this is impractical. Even today, as Niels points out, this is impractical. We are building for that future, not today with a relatively small number of components.

The purpose of the zip files is to provide a preview for a given component, not all components, not all of Polymer. The zip files contain the dependencies for just that one component. 

The minute one wants to actually use more than one component, managing overlapping dependencies becomes essentially impossible. This is when a package manager like Bower is needed, and recommended by the Polymer team. 

These are not equivalent use cases, and making them look like each other, modulo the path bug Max pointed out, is probably going to lead to bigger problems down the line. The zip files are for kicking the tires. If you want to get in the car and go somewhere, use Bower.

Ultimately, tools will spring up to make managing all of these individual components from different vendors easier, and possible without the command line for users that prefer that. Alternatively, smarter CDN-like things will allow for simply linking to a common URL. We're simply just not there yet and those tools do not yet exist. 

-Matt

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[Максим Иванов]

You plan to have a single distribution system components(with Bower), including third-party components?

[Matthew McNulty]

Once there are a lot of third party components, this will be necessary. Either we will build one, or someone else will. One way or another this will get solved. 

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Максим Иванов <nim....@gmail.com> wrote:

You plan to have a single distribution system components(with Bower), including third-party components?

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[Максим Иванов]

Taking this opportunity, I would like to ask a question. I noticed a confrontation with a team of Angular. Tell me why Polymer not take Angular ready for data binding? And the second question may be whether the Polymer absorbed into Angular version 2.0?

[Matthew McNulty]

Angular is a separate project from a different area of Google. We have differing philosophies and constraints, and are on separate paths. There is no chance of merging, though in a future version of Angular it will be easier to use Polymer elements and other web components for people who wish to do so. 

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Максим Иванов <nim....@gmail.com> wrote:

Taking this opportunity, I would like to ask a question. I noticed a confrontation with a team of Angular. Tell me why Polymer not take Angular ready for data binding? And the second question may be whether the Polymer absorbed into Angular version 2.0?

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[Максим Иванов]

Obviously angular.material competes with polymer. Sooner or later that will win that one. What are the chances of a polymer? Can you say anything about any architectural advantages that knocked angular "on the blades""?

[Matthew McNulty]

I think you misunderstand Polymer as just the elements that are made using Polymer. Angular's material elements are not competing with Polymer. This could be the root cause of a lot of your other misunderstandings in this thread.

Take a little time and dig in and you'll find Polymer is a different kind of thing. 

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Максим Иванов <nim....@gmail.com> wrote:

Obviously angular.material competes with polymer. Sooner or later that will win that one. What are the chances of a polymer? Can you say anything about any architectural advantages that knocked angular "on the blades""?

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[Максим Иванов]

>> in a future version of Angular it will be easier to use Polymer elements and other web components for people who wish to do so.

However, the polymer's own funds for data binding. A angular began to introduce material.design. On the face of competition. Were not originally assigned roles. And every framework climbed into someone else's garden.

[Максим Иванов]

I like the architecture angular. Although there is a performance problem. Change data should be limited to the associated control, rather than the entire model. I hope in the polymer did so.

I watched as a user polymer is because angular weak material today. Competition ... The project can not develop if it has no users.

[Максим Иванов]

>> Take a little time and dig in and you'll find Polymer is a different kind of thing.

I've learned a lot thanks. I make a bet on the polymer :)