Quick analysis of the situation (IMHO):
polytechnic1
NYU (according to the answers to the alumni questionaire posted on
http://community.poly.edu/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=273&srcid=272),
a school where the most common refrain heard on campus is "smokes?" (a
dealer in Washington Square Park selling weed), because NYU has
threatened to build a competing engineering program despite the fact
that engineer schools nationwide have faced massively decreasing
enrollments due to a miserable employment outlook caused by
outsourcing and offshoring (a lot done by the CEOs of various
companies who are on the Poly Board of Trustees so as to maximize
their corporate profits instead of their supposed obligation to help
Poly graduates get a job).
NYU is not a real university, let us get that straight off the bat.
It is a school for rich kids with no brains who want to have a good
time in NYC. That is why so many of them get jobs at Trader Joe's. I
remember when I went to Poly, freshmen were dropping out to join the
dot com bubble and make 6 figures. NYU is a party "school" with few
degrees that are of any value (i.e. anything medical related but
especially not Costume Studies or Gender and Sexuality Studies).
Compare NYU campus which has an extremely high amount of "social"
locations (bars, clubs, cafes) to that of Poly. Poly students are
rarely seen loitering around versus that of the well known NYU student
hedonistic society which rarely is seen studying at all. When I
onetime visited the Bobst Library I was amazed at the general
emptiness of the structure compared to the packed nature of Dibner.
Poly students are exhausted from cramming while NYU kids are just hung-
over from binge drink and Ecstasy.
Why are Polytechnic students such motivated and disciplined
students? When I went to Poly there were a huge amount of Russian and
Chinese ethnicities represented along with some from the Caribbean,
Africa, and India. For the most part, the vast majority of all
students received Financial Aid and since they did not come from a
strong English speaking background, mathematics and science which did
not have as much of an English proficiency requirement, seemed to
attract them. As children of immigrants or immigrants themselves,
they would realize that unless they succeeded at Poly, their failure
would permanently chain them to a life of misery and poverty that they
often saw surrounding them as many were poor themselves. Poly gave
them a chance to pull themselves out of that pit and transform
themselves into captains of industries. I would consider this to be a
great motivator to endeavor to be the best considering how tough Poly
was where I had professors grade against the curve, deliberately
making tests too hard to actually curving grades down so as to ensure
that the class median was a C with some smart kids getting a D or even
an F. Compare this with an NYU trust kid who knows that Daddies firm
is going to hire him no matter what, or that they can live their rest
of their life as slackers. Talk to these NYU dimwits. These are the
type of people that your employer will associate you with when you
have a Polytechnic Institute of NYU diploma.
I have talked enough about this. This is simply a real estate
transaction as the whole area is about to be part of a major boom.
Remember that Metrotech is a Forest City Ratner project as well as the
new Atlantic Yards project. The whole area is about to go upscale
with its overwhelming public transportation advantage (M,N,R,Q,
4,5,A,C,F,G, LIRR, etc.) Poly is sitting on some valuable land that
could be developed as 2 new office towers. You do the math...
If anyone really wants to stop this dead in the tracks it will not be
through post endless threads on a great forums such as this. There is
too much money involved and these people are extremely greedy and will
do whatever it takes to get this deal through. The trustees and
Hutlin will profits handsomely while our academic experience is turned
into ether as if it never existed. The only way to stop it is through
a lawsuit. IANAL, however I would say there is a quasi-fiduciary
responsibility as well as a warranty provided stating that when I
fulfill my requirements that my degree will be given. That degree can
not be rescinded as such. I could have gone to a much easier school
but I insisted I go to Poly because the name meant something. It is
kind of like going to Harvard, it gets your foot in the door. The
valuation of my degree, what I paid for dearly financially and through
diligent studying and effort, is going to be greatly diminished
through easily avoidable externalities which are easily foreseen could
be another legal basis. This lawsuit needs to be done NOW before the
deal is signed fait de complit. Let everyone contribute to a
Polytechnic Legal Defense Fund as our school is under attack both from
outside and internal traitors.
Another idea could be if alumni who own or control a company can say
openly and on their websites that should the deal go through, no NYU
graduate will ever be considered for ANY position at their company.
Think of it like a boycott. If NYU makes it difficult for Poly
graduates to make it in life, let us make sure that NYU will feel this
poison pill. Let us make it a major publicity campaign. What is good
for the goose is good for the gander.
polytechnic1
The way the merger is being explained by the administration is that it
was "an offer they can't refuse" like in a Mafia movie. They come to
my alma mater and threaten us by saying either we sell for nothing or
they are going to wipe us out by setting up their own engineering
program. However, should we accept their offer we will be whole-
heartedly brought into the "family" or so they say. Why should I
trust someone who comes to the table bearing both gifts and a knife.
If they are so ruthless and vicious is this who we should partner
with. This is negotiating at the point of a gun.
Mergers in business mean that the dominant partner will shaft everyone
except those at the very top who get very handsomely compensated for
selling out. Often times, assets are sold (facilities, equipment,
etc) with accompany layoffs that both combine to leave the submissive
partner a mere skeleton of its original self. The alumni of Poly will
be the ones who face the future where our grades/transcripts/degrees
will be "un-certifiable". A school that has been Borged into non-
existence. Can we accept this when Poly has no major financial
problems that can not be rectified by a real leader who seriously
takes their responsibility seriously instead of completely
capitulating after a few years at the helm and letting us sink with
the ship while he gets a first class cabin on the marauding ship (he
was in the Navy so he should understand the symbolism).
I pretty much ragged on NYU. Are there some smart kids at NYU? Of
course there are. However the general environment of the school is
that of entitlement and with that entitlement comes the expectation
that they can succeed without hard work and study. For the most part,
the vast majority of students are enrolled in liberal arts majors that
require very little of the "hard work and rigorousness" that
practically every class at Poly demanded. NYU is a school that
specializes in rich kids who have gotten ahead simply because they are
rich. How many kids at NYU came from private schools? At Poly there
were only a few who came from Private schools and those were the
somewhat affordable parochial schools. NYU does not even have that
many students who actually attended a New York City High School since
MOST of their students are from out of state. New York, the country's
largest city, would be left without a engineer-only school. This
would be the downfall of New York City and indeed the region as they
will be totally reliant on non-local 'talent'.
Think of a merger as a marriage. NYU had a wife (the NYU engineer
program) who was essentially dumped and we were the kind sister (Poly)
who took her in to our home. Now NYU says we should get married, and
they get the house. They think after 30 years we would forget what
they did. Oh, and there is no diamond ring, there is no promise of a
great future together. Forget that. We are told we better get
married or else... this is the type of abusive relationship we should
be running away from instead of embracing as a hope.
Poly's management has continuously been a major disappointment.
Whether it was building the dorm (which is mostly used by other
schools students but is a total wash in terms of outrageous costs to
build and operate), the ridiculous basketball court debacle, etc., we
have seen this once might and proud ship run aground by sheer
incompetence and completely apparent self serving greed of the
administration.
On Oct 4, 4:30 am, polytechnic1 <polytechn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> We are allowing Polytechnic University to be taken over for FREE by
> NYU (according to the answers to the alumni questionaire posted onhttp://community.poly.edu/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=273&srcid=272),
polytechnic1
which is linked from the main poly webpage-> President's Office -> The
future of Poly
and on the first page it says Poly's major accomplishments:
"Polytechnic's recent years are equally significant. We have built a
vital campus with new academic, athletic, and residential facilities;
we have trimmed our expenses dramatically; we resisted the overtures
of NYU to merge;"
How come he has such a major change of heart? Or in venacular: how
much did it cost to sell out and stab the Poly community in the back,
eh Brutus?
On Oct 4, 4:30 am, polytechnic1 <polytechn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> We are allowing Polytechnic University to be taken over for FREE by
> NYU (according to the answers to the alumni questionaire posted onhttp://community.poly.edu/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=273&srcid=272),
ron kuch
Schlam presents so well here and on the Poly Merger Discussion at:
http://community.poly.edu/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?&pid=272&srcid=272&dgs904=0
I read with disgust, the profuse proliferation of prattle and glowing
goodwords promoting the merger, which was signed by Messrs. Hultin and
Matthews, and published in the Polytechnic Cable. It smacks strongly
of something straight out of a copywriter's stylebook of outlines for
promotional letters and sales pitches.
I don't see any substantiation of any benefits with facts, merely
concept and claims which cannot be guaranteed. In this day and age,
you can damn well believe that you can't believe anything anyone wants
you to believe in support of their agenda ... and that makes me
suspicious about the sudden vote in the cloakroom after midnight to re-
enter into merger talks.
THIS IS NOT A MERGER, IT IS A SELL-OUT. As in other private equity
buyouts, corporate takeover's, LBO's etc., NYU is pillaging and
plundering it's target. It's sorrowful to see this activity spreading
into the academic world.
As a class of '67 ChE from the historic engineering institution named
Polytechnic Institute of Brooklyn located in its commuter's concrete
campus, I regret the squandering of the huge donation from Donald
Othmer's estate, and the exceptionally loyal and generous support of
Joseph Jacobs over many years, as well as so many other significant
generous supporters who must be regretting the loss off their Alma
Mater's identity.
NYU's School of Engineering was assimilated by PIB and the result
became PINY, which was further diluted and modernized to become PUNY
in the urban renewal project dubbed Metrotech.
These were all hailed in glorious goodwords as enabling Poly to
"continue its strong traditions and rich history", "insuring our
survival and the continuance of its mission to serve ...", "attracting
the best this, that, and the other thing", and "enabling it's
commitments ...", etc., etc., yak, yak (how's my style sheet
guideline doing?). Oh, yes, I forgot "strategic goals", "increased
innovation", and "excited over the new potential for ...".
The years of prattle and good intentions ended up on the scrap heap of
failure. The Old Poly lost its focus a long time ago, once it forgot
its roots and diversified from its tradition of a sound engineering
education for commuter students. As a result it also lost its
identity, and the support of many of us who could no longer relate to
it. That's fact, in my opinion.
Like Mr. Schlam, I too spent many years out in the real world, won and
lost some battles and wars, and have seen and heard enough shenanigans
to know one when I smell one. This proposed merger is not about
education, it's about business, management, and immediate profit at
the expense of those who can be convinced it's for their own good.
I doubt that a merger is any solution for salvation and survival. Aye
mates, if we must surrender to avoid sinking, better to sink with our
treasure than be sunken by pirates!
Ron Kuchins
BS ChE 67
> > for the goose is good for the gander.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Shafik Yaghmour
I would like to say that ad hominem(Latin seemed apropos) comments
such as this do not serve to educate nor provide for a thoughtful
discussion. I feel that is does a disservice to the alumni community
and is damaging to further constructive actions.
Regards
Shafik Yaghmour
At Large Member of The Alumni Association Board
On Oct 4, 12:55 pm, polytechnic1 <polytechn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Also I was onhttp://www.poly.edu/president/_doc/The_Future_of_Poly_Final_doc.pdf
Mordechai Schlam
Did Shafik just get to read his e-mail of October 4 this evening?
Best regards,
Mark H. Schlam
President
Bina International Corporation
Post Office Box 97
East Northport, NY 11731-0097 USA
Phone: 631-499-2255
FAX: 631-499-5553
e-mail: mord...@optonline.net
Shafik Yaghmour
Can you explain why this matters to you? There has been a general
pattern of disinformation and such forms of discourse needs to be
addressed lest it discredit the alumni as a whole. As for the
tardiness of such a response, that is clearly a mea culpa for me.
Regards
Shafik
On Nov 17, 10:50 pm, Mordechai Schlam <mordec...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Good evening guys,
>
> Did Shafik just get to read his e-mail of October 4 this evening?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark H. Schlam
> President
> Bina International Corporation
> Post Office Box 97
> East Northport, NY 11731-0097 USA
> Phone: 631-499-2255
> FAX: 631-499-5553
ron...@juno.com
My dear Shafik,
Didn't you ever hear the saying that it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt? Who is your ventriloquist?
Cease the circumcopulation. The disservice is in not substantiating a claim with a reference to the specific section of law which requires that records of degrees be maintained. It would seem logical that suxh should exist, and the service would be for someone who knows to point them out. Meanwhile, Nulles illigitimi carborundorum (but they won't stop until they do).
I would recommend that anyone who is really concerned should obtain a valid copy of their transcript with the seal impressed on it, while Poly still exists. You might find that the records may not have been maintained. How about asking Craig Matthews for a copy of his '71MG from PIB. Matbe it got lost in the merger of '73..
Meanwhile, don't count on this merger yet. Enough Board members may just wake up before this nightmare is over, and change their vote. A little mutiny against the chairman would be an intelligent and conscientious move on their part. Corporate culture and M&A's have no place in academia. It's becoming too pervasive. Where did Poly's leadership get their degrees, Enron or Countrywide.
Carry on,
Sarge
_____________________________________________________________
Click to learn about options trading and how to make more money from the pros.
Shafik Yaghmour
You go on with pure speculation, which indeed is a disservice to all.
If you actually have factual evidence that records have not been
maintained instead of presenting the fear that they have not been
maintained then such information would indeed be relevant and
critical.
Also if you can actually dispute the assertion that NY state does not
demand these requirements then again do so otherwise you just spread
doubt but have no basis to do so. Again such a finding would be
relevant and meaningful, please if you do find such than please share.
I ask that discourse be done on the level with is reasonable and fair
to all. I will not call you names or cast aspersions on you and I put
forth that the same respect should be given to all participating in
these discussions.
Regards
Shafik Yaghmour
Art
believe that what is needed is a legal defense fund which willl
provide for an agressive lawsuit to stop this takeover. I live in
Texas which makes it difficult for me to make an administrative
contrbution. I am willing to contribute cash.
Has one been established? I have not seen anything on the subject.
Regards,
A. W. (Art) Kelly
BChe PIB '53 and MChe NYU College of Engineering '61